The normalisation of OnlyFans and porn

[mistea]

I graduated from uni about 5 years ago, and still keep in touch with my course mates via a WhatsApp group chat. Recently, one of them was asking if anyone knew of any openings in our field, someone suggested that she open an OnlyFans account, and basically everyone else (it was a very male-dominated course) chimed in about how that was a great idea and that they had friends who did that and made 5+ figures a month.

Fair play but I personally know of a friend who went down that route, made a decent amount in the first few months, only to be pushed to show her face and do more and more extreme acts to retain her subscribers who all ended up leaving anyway. She has now quit but her videos are stuck on free porn sites and reposted on forums from time to time. Her case isn't a rare one.

Is it just the people I surround myself with? Or is this really how the world is today? After my last relationship broke down because of a violent porn 'addiction' on my exDP's part I feel just feel like it's all hopeless now.

@Soccermom1 the problem is that you are perpetuation and encouraging the culture that causes all the harms that PPs have mentioned. So you do bear responsibility. You are effectively a cigarette salesman who, despite knowing all the harms it causes to everyone in society, excuses themselves because they don't sell fags to kids.

Let’s face it years ago if you were a bloke in a relationship you had 3 choices for sex, within the relationship , hookers or affairs— now there are these whole big grey areas , lots of Which can be kept secret, of which many women are not ok with it — if in the 80s you were with a bloke who insisted on getting out dirty videos 5 times a week and watching them— most women at the time would soon have dumped the bloke— now not only are we expected to be cool about it (fair enough if you are) many are expected to perform up to porn film standards and do all kinds of stuff that they don’t always feel comfortable with as well as finding it no big deal if the guy constantly looks at sleazy stuff— because you know, there are women out there happy to take the cash for sleaze — whatever happened to romance or integrity. If women actually concentrated on using their brain and cutting off the supply then men would have to actually put a bit more effort into relationships if they wanted regular sex — I Personally find women selling themselves in this way to be doing other women a great disservice.

If women actually concentrated on using their brain and cutting off the supply then men would have to actually put a bit more effort into relationships if they wanted regular sex

I actually think you're wrong there. We seem to be moving towards a similar society to Japan, where there are so many sex/relationship proxies that might be less fulfilling, but require much less effort.

The swipe-based dating apps, to porn, to online databases of escort. Then you have the slightly newer phenomenons of Seeking Arrangements, Onlyfans and even things like Twitch TV.
I don't see these trends changing whilst all of these "relationship alternatives" exist and more seem to be created all the time.

Women are the product and men the consumer (as in the people who actually give them money) in all of these cases.

But sex shouldnt be a reward and doled out for good behavior - if my DP started withdrawing and not wanting sex because he felt I wasnt putting enough effort into the relationship I wouldnt be happy! I see your point but maybe you worded it harsher than it sounds.

Regarding Tinder and the like, surely there are just as many women on there after no strings relationships? Else there wouldnt be a site. I fear times have moved on now, at least for the younger generation and both men and women (for whatever reason) cant be bothered with the hassle of a proper relationship which takes work!

My ex watched porn, not openly but I know he did. But then so did I. I think its healthy to be allowed to get off on your own from time to time and if a partner started laying down the law and told me I couldnt he'd be out the door, sorry. Its just controlling.

Porn is a terrible substitute for sex. Sites like onlyfans serve to stroke fragile egos more than sexually sate.

Having said that, a lot of people are coming at this from the angle of a relationship being the pinnacle to be reached and desired by all men.

It's really not. Until I met my wife, I actively avoided relationships. I either went ONS, met people OLD (which was much tinier in the noughties) or went and got wanked off by a masseuse. I was fortunate in having a high disposable income in my 20s, so was able to spare the 400-500 needed for a high end sensual massage every few weeks.

Relationships are hassle. They are great for raising children, supplying a stable base. Other than that there is a lot of hard work, constant compromise, loss of independence, shared finances, lack of autonomy. I kept my 20s relationship free.

I've been married some time now. Don't use porn, knocked the massages on the head when we got together and the children are doing well. If I split from my wife, I wouldn't seek out another relationship and would go back to massages but not porn.

@soccermom1
Regarding Tinder and the like, surely there are just as many women on there after no strings relationships? Else there wouldnt be a site.

That's probably part of the reason they keep the details of their userbase under wraps. Every dating website (for hookups or otherwise) has a surplus of men.
The general consensus from the information that is available and can be inferred is that if Tinder did provide details (of demographics, match rates and revenue by gender) a lot of men would be put off because their odds aren't very good.
You basically have a large pool of men competing for a relatively small pool of women. It's almost impossible to work out how big your potential pool is from the app, and that's by design.

Interesting conversation here. I definitely find it concerning how many people (women) are on only fans now and how normalised it's become - particularly for the younger generation. I'm sure the money is highly concentrated in the top percentile.

Is it worth examining why men on the whole seek out this material more than women? Why is there this huge demand? Is it just biological / human nature?

For instance if one person is into kinkier style of sex and the other person is more vanilla are the two supposed to compromise and meet in the middle?

From all accounts it appears women tend to veer to the vanilla side of things and men to the kinkier side. If that is correct there will be a large portion of the population coupled up with mismatched sexual preferences - which takes priority in that scenario?

I'm just throwing questions out there that are popping up in my mind.

@DedlyMedally if men far out number women on dating sites why is the pool of men so poor? You would think it should be reversed?

@darnokandjalad do you have any issues/problems stemming from your youth or childhood? You sound like you have some issues. I don't think it's normal to use prostitutes rather than seek out a relationship.

@coronaway
That's a bit of a loaded question (the assumption that the pool is poor), but having more men doesn't make for a better pool.
Statistically I think it would mean you're less likely to encounter them, even if you were swiping entirely at random.

I also think these apps sort of disincentivise "good" behaviour from men. If they only go for women they feel genuinely attracted to, their match rate would be even lower than it already is.
There is/was a trend in Reddit for posting individual tinder stats, which is what I'm basing this on.

Men "like" most women shown to them and usually have a single digit match rate from that pool (less than 1% isn't uncommon).
Women like fewer men (usually around a 1/3 or less) and match most of them (generally 2/3 of that pool or above).

I think a lot of men just swipe on any woman they find passably attractive, with the intention of just taking whatever they can get from whoever wants them. It's not really a model that breeds serious relationships.

@DedlyMedally so effectively the whole thing is broken.

Men are swiping on women they don't actually much like and therefore treat them poorly. Ironically perhaps if men were more selective online dating would improve for both parties.

@dramadam I fear it's actually far more common than you think - particularly amongst 'high achievers' who are time poor but cash rich.

To the gentleman who says if single he prefers massages to relationships— at least that’s honest— what I think is shit is the so called ‘nice guys’ who want ‘both’ without telling the wife/ partner.

[quote coronaway]@dramadam I fear it's actually far more common than you think - particularly amongst 'high achievers' who are time poor but cash rich.[/quote]
I wouldnt call these guys high achievers at all . Know many personally and they tend to just be dudes with extra cash and shitty attitudes towards women thinking buying women is fine

@Countingthebeat I was using the standard definition of the word but I don't necessary disagree with you.

The more I read the more on the fence I become to be honest

I think the majority of men and women are quite far apart in terms of what they want.

I think the majority of men and women are quite far apart in terms of what they want.

Yep. This.

[quote dramadam]@darnokandjalad do you have any issues/problems stemming from your youth or childhood? You sound like you have some issues. I don't think it's normal to use prostitutes rather than seek out a relationship. [/quote]
I think it’s common among some emotionally damaged and inadequate men, who are happy to abuse prostituted women and girls.

Many of them struggle to maintain adult relationships. They are willing to make an effort for a relatively short time, to get what they want eg to find a woman willing to have their kids or wash their socks. But otherwise it’s to much work - because it’s not real, it’s a performance.

They can’t cope with reciprocal relationships based on respect. They want abusive ones, where they have the power and can force women // children to do what they want. They don’t care if the “ masseuse “ is a coerced woman or a trafficked child.

Ultimately is not about sex, whatever they say, it’s about power. Then having power and their victim being powerless. That’s what’s turns them on.

I too agree that most women and men are very far apart in what they want .
I think the number of men we hear of even just on this site who are happy just to buy women and use women as living sex dolls proves that

@imogen
Agree and anyone who thinks that we either need to have women selling their bodies or sexual services / pictures to men OR be like Saudi Arabia needs their head read
These are not the only two alternatives . Incredibly there’s actually a middle ground where women can be respected as equals and not sell themselves nor be second class citizens

If men and women are in fact quite far apart in what they want, what does this middle ground look like?

@coronaway

If men and women are in fact quite far apart in what they want, what does this middle ground look like?

I don’t think in all reality a ‘middle ground ‘ could be achieved whilst women are still seen as primarily sexual objects to be purchased and as sexual commodities by a many men and some women . In my opinion plenty of men complain that relationships are a bad deal for them but in reality they seem to actually want the relationships but just not the restriction of monogamy that comes with it so they lie For women relationship are often a crap deal too but women tend to stick more to the monogamy ‘ rule ‘ or at least say they do , likely because they are damned a hell of a lot more by society than men for stepping outside of relationships It’s entirely possible and likely women are no more ‘naturally monogamous ‘ than men but have been historically punished much more heavily for not being faithful That being said , the whole attitude MANY men have towards women is horrific. When women cheat they don’t tend to buy men or use men in the ways men use women like purchasable commodities in the way men do etc .

@Countingthebeat no I don't think a middle ground is achievable either but then we're back to square one.

Are you suggesting polyamory over monogamy as a workaround?

I wish I was asexual to be honest - sounds a lot easier!!

Sorry if I'm taking this thread off topic.

[quote coronaway]@Countingthebeat no I don't think a middle ground is achievable either but then we're back to square one.

Are you suggesting polyamory over monogamy as a workaround?

I wish I was asexual to be honest - sounds a lot easier!!

Sorry if I'm taking this thread off topic.[/quote]
I have no issue with polyamory for those it works for not monogamy for those it works for . Both parties being honest being the challenge .
Relationships and people getting what they want as this basically comes down to people setting boundaries and being honest
I see the problem here and the problem being addressed in this thread is not about men getting what they want from relationships at all. The problem is not about men wanting to be polygamous it’s about men wanting power and wanting to treat women as commodities .
For too long people have confused men wanting multiple partners with men wanting to see women dehumanised and commodified

And btw many many women want multiple partners also , very few want men commodified or dehumanised

I'm going to have to disagree here, at least in part, and not for the sake of argument, but I just see these massive sweeping generalizations, its not about sex, its about power and dehumanising women. How about in the majority of cases it is just purely about sex, about men wanting sex? Why is that so difficult to understand? Presumably we've all been in relationships with men and know that if they could they'd be having sex all the time (in most cases), why do we have to add on layers of psychoanalysis and make it into men really wanting power or to humiliate women, sometimes the most obvious answer is the actual answer, its just sex, and men seeking out sex, or porn, to satisfy their sex drive. Thats not to condone buying sex and the whole industry, but I think we're making it far more complicated that it is.