Constantly being told what to do

[Pickle48]

I've NC'ed for this, not sure why as its so outing but hey ho. There are other issues in my marriage but this is something that's bugging me. Because I cant seem to find a way to solve it.

Over the past number of years I feel more and more like a schoolkid in our relationship and I don't know what to do or how to fix it.

This is a bit random but an example. Had a delivery and it came with one of those gel ice packs in them. I thought it seemed silly to throw it away, especially as I do a lot of sport and they are useful for injuries. So I put it in the freezer. DW asks what it was doing in there, so I explained. Next day I find it in the bin. I asked why she did it and she said we didn't need it. I said I had explained why I wanted it and put it back. A week later I heard my wife complain again that "it made finding things in the freezer hard" and it ended up in the bin again.

And again. My parents sent me some presents and they had bought a box to put them all in. Im not talking some random cardboard box, its purpose built and decorated. Before I had even said anything my DW said "don't think you are keeping that". Then again this morning I was asked "why is that not in the recycling yet"

And before you ask. We live in a big house, its not cramped. I am not a hoarder, but I hate throwing stuff away when they could be reused. But its not just this - I get told what to do in other areas of life as well. For years I have just backed down. If I try not to back down it just ends in an argument. What do I do.... (aside from leave)

My x used to say this "if you leave you'll have burnt your bridges".

My response to that was fear. Ignore the confusion and fear because i bet you anything she'll still want you to come back (while she keeps her options open/gets to be the one who ends it on her t&c)
If she says to you "if you leave, there's no coming back" tell her you thank her for being decisive and go.

You didnt mention a reaction to the alan robarge clip. Cannot reiterate enough how helpful it is and how it would if you watched it help you get to that place where you accept that the other persin will not change and that you are colluding with your own betrayal.

Ps agree that you need to put anything you know you do not want to lose in storage or leave it with a friend. My x put decades of photos and a musical instrument in the bin after i left.

Me again :) Sorry, I have had a lot going on. I have watched the video and its very enlightening. I need to sit down again and watch it for another time

I think finally I may start to "understand" the situation because eventually it feels like I have heard some honesty. If we put the emotional bit to one side for a second - one issue with the relationship from my perspective is that I feel a low priority. For DW, her work and her friends seem to be what she puts a lot of energy and time into. I have raised this on many on occasion. Ironically I gave her some space this week regarding the trial split because she was struggling with the pressure of work.

But she admitted today, that over the past two weeks she has thought and come to the conclusion that for her, work creates a lot of stress and anxiety and she struggles to cope. When you add on top the stress outside of work, then it causes her to feel angry. Secondly, she deals with that stress by meeting friends, doing things with them etc and even going on holiday with them and not me. So thats her stress relief.

So my point was that its unfair that she takes that anger out on me. And secondly, I understand that its her stress relief but there needs to be balance. She is adamant that she is changing / changed.

So a tried to highlight an example: last weekend she hadnt finished her work during the week and was feeling anxious, so she had to work at the weekend. And she also met up for a walk with a friend. When I brought it up, her response was "well I only walked for 1 hour with my friend, and work was only another 4. And anyway you also worked a weekend last year"

She doesn't ever want to say "look, you're right I need to address the root cause". Because actually the one hour walk with the friend was actually two and half, and then you add the time taken to get there and back and its a big chunk of the day. Then you add the time spent working as well.. there isn't much left in the day'

But as previous posters have said, the bigger issue is that I have no voice. I can't raise issues in the relationship - because if I say "X is a problem" then the response is to minimize X, or the impact it has on me. Or she says that "you hurt me by saying X in an issue".

I'm not perfect by any means, but if she said "look I feel overwealmed about how much stuff there is in the house, can you not keep that box" then I would say "ok I understand, as a compromise how about I give it to the charity shop and in future I will think about whether I keep too much"

And on that point - she says that when she gets stressed she needs order and control. Its her way of dealing with it. So thats why she is controlling and wants to get rid of my stuff

I

You're just not getting it OP are you

😴

You sound a nice guy , but the last thing you need is a domineering woman and not a very polite one either— I don’t think your wife actually likes you that much to be honest . You probably would make a good dad and a nice partner- but not with this lady

Mate, she isn't very nice and she speaks and treats you with contempt except on staggeringly rare occasions she thinks you might actually leave. Then she shows you pictures of you two from the past.

You want to be a dad. It would be incredibly selfish to bring a child into this dynamic. Whether each of you changes a little or learns new ways of dealing with each other, fundamentally this relationship has run its course.

You don't have sex, you feel unwanted, she feels unwanted, you both feel frustrated and misunderstood, you feel controlled, she feels you aren't masculine...

This is not a healthy relationship. You have the chance to split and have a healthy, happy relationship with someone else. One that is suitable to bring a child into.

This one isn't it.

@closetbeanmuncher maybe not no. I'm guessing you think I'm wasting my time trying to understand her or fix her.

I've been with her a very long time. Over a decade. I feel I owe it to the relationship. I do struggle with understanding why i have allowed me to get in this position. How have I become to be in a relationship which some people on here have said is emotionally abusive.

The only analogy I can think is the person who said it's like a boiled frog. And that it's just got hotter and hotter

I think you're going to waste another decade trying unsuccessfully to turn water into wine...

In my first messages to you I told you to learn when to quit and explore the concept on sunken costs fallacy in your interpersonal relationships. You have form with denial/procrastinating/escapism behavior.

I personally think you should scrape the shit off your shoe and move on to a respectful, satisfying relationship but hey what do I know right??

*Cough 😂 😂

What age are you, OP?

I feel like in a different world, I could be your wife, because I'm naturally a bit more, er, forceful than most women seem to be in relationships. My husband, on the other hand, is naturally quiet, gentle and kind. I could see how he could be absolutely ground down by someone like your wife. I'm fairly self aware, and get no kick out of controlling/telling people what to do (can't be arsed - grown adults ffs. I've enough on my hands telling my kids what to do) but if I wanted to be a real domineering bitch to DH I imagine it would be some time until he put his foot down. I've often told DH that if I'm being too bossy/blunt he's to tell me straight out, for my own good- because I bloody well trust his judgement too, his quietness makes him a very good observer of people, and a good judge.

I don't like the sound of your wife, you do sound quite passive, and perhaps at one point you enjoyed being mothered, as so many men seem to do, but it's not on for her to take that and run with it and use it as a way to micromanage and control you.

The sex-or lack of- will get no better. I'd be away for that alone.

Tbh you don't sound right for each other. What it boils down to is she doesn't respect you. Some women pay lipservice to the idea that they want their men to be their equals, to do housework, to be in touch with their emotions - but actually (and maybe it's biology, maybe it's internalised patriarchy, idk) they lose respect for you because you don't grunt and flex your muscles or whatever.

Tbh any more complaints about your cooking and washing and I'd tell her to do it her bloody self. Do you work notably less hours than her or something?

I don't know OP, this just doesn't sound worth it. It sounds toxic,and if there's no kids involved then no point flogging a dead horse

How does she interact with her ‘friends’?

Does she emotionally abuse them too?

If not, why does she think it’s acceptable to do it to you? And why do you enable her behaviour?

You keep trying to understand her and explain her behaviour away. Nothing will change, so please don’t keep wasting any more of your precious life on this woman.

You have been given so much good advice on this thread which you sound like you are going to act on. Then she gets into your head again and you come back on here and it seems like you want to ‘fix’ her each time. I really don’t think her behaviour will ever change simply because she is never wrong about anything.

Why are you so keen to stay with someone who shows you such distain and makes you so unhappy?

I know it’s easy for us all to give our opinions and advice and it is your life, but I think it’s such a shame you are opting to stay with her and give her more time. She has had more than enough time and she is still blaming you for everything.

Think about it logically, how can a relationship ever be happy for both people if one person is dominating and controlling it so much?

This is so sad;

Two things:

1. You can't "fix" anyone - particularly if they don't respect your opinions.

2. You are enmeshed in the "sunk costs" fallacy. You have made a mistake, and will continue to make it, because you see leaving the relationship as losing all the time and effort you have put into it.
   But it's up to you....

I think you are going to have a long and very, very lonely marriage

My exh would do this. One specific example always sticks in my head. I asked him nicely if he could wash up his breakfast things before going to work, his response was 'well I hoovered this week' he'd never think 'oh she has a point, or 'yes no problem, it'll only take 2 mins' he always had to come back with a counter argument or a justification. Which mean nothing ever got resolved and it always escalated into an argument. I never did figure out if he was either unintelligent, selfish, had zero empathy, emotionally unintelligent or something else.

If you have 40 minutes OP, please watch this one. It's excellent. See if it sparks any thing.

OP is stuck deeply in the “sunk costs fallacy” & doesn’t want to leave. So perhaps the threat to separate actually was manipulative. Not in a sly way, more in desperation. But it’s clear the OP has no intention of following through & can’t see themselves existing without their partner.

Hi op I've read through most of your post and you sound utterly confused, your exasperation must be exhausting.

You know she is a bully, she is abusive, she will continue to thrive whilst you will grow weaker.
This situation will only get worse, you cannot change her, she doesn't want or need to change... she likes it like this.

Why on earth do you think your feelings matter to her? they don't.
I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but you would get more resolution living with a robot.

It is good you are resourceful and sound young enough to at least try to make a run for it, please try to escape this woman.
The unfairness which you express is the tip of the iceburg to what will follow in future years.
This woman has a capacity for real cruelty, she will destroy you, do you think that sounds overly dramatic?
You are an empath, a reasonable, deep thinking, soul searching type of person who will continue to analyse any unfairness in your relationship. This will be your downfall and she will show you no mercy.

She really knows exactly what she is doing, it is purposeful, it is not lack of understanding on her part.

Do you think she is a narcisist? have you read up on them?
This is how it goes with them, leaving a narcisist is unbelivably hard, she has programmed you and controlled you so that you have no confidence and are so scared to function without her.
She doesn't love you, she doesn't love anyone except herself, every single action she makes will have something that she gets out of it for herself. There is nothing altruistic about her.

I think seeing someone who understands about narcisistic behaviour may well be of help to you.
Do not go to couples councelling, she easily manipulated that situation to her advantage with further damage to you, easy as pie for her.

OP,

You are going round in circles.
That is your choice.

You have for years and you can continue to do so.

She doesn't love you or care about you.

But you clearly serve some purpose as it doesn't suit her at the moment to split up.

You will deeply regret spending futher precious years going around in circles and allowing this awful relationship to drift on without improvement.

You will come to regret that you didn't accept you couldn't fix her or the relationship and chose to accept this scraps of a relationship where you come last and she would rather spend time with her friends than you.

I started the post by saying don't advise me to LTB. The reason being is deep down I think I know that's what I need to do. But how the hell do you have that conversation

You don't need to have a conversation. Just leave. It matters not one jot why she is like she is. Don't look for answers, don't try to fix her. Seek your own happiness.

So, if you aren't ready to walk out now, get yourself some therapy in the meantime. Not marriage counselling, something that focuses on finding yourself and building your self esteem. Make all the legal and financial plans and precautions you can. Get ready to leave.

Google 'sunk costs fallacy' re the 'decade'.

Your partner is a bully. You are worn down by it. You'll feel better when you're free.

You are useful op at the moment to her, but the day will come when you are not useful, and when that happens she will break you completely and discard you.

It is a waste of time trying to understand her behaviour, you need to understand how she thinks, she is completely lacking in empathy, it is not possible for her to learn this, but you can protect youself from it further damaging you.
My go to for you would be, H G Tudor - Knowing the narcisist,
It may be of great relief to know you are not going mad.
Things may start to make sense, and your strengh and sense of self may return.
The abuse will not stop when you leave, because it has been firmly placed in your head to work when she is not even arround.
She's really worked a number on you.

Gather your knowledge and don't play her game anymore.

OP, I have just done the "select posts" thing, and read back just your posts. Try it.

What really strikes me is the total lack of care and concern for you that your wife shows. How can you accept that as your lot, - knowingly think "Well, that's me for the rest of my life.

The part about how she show "love" (ha!) is striking -
"She says her love language is doing things like booking restaurants, going to things like theatre, holiday or events. She says that these create memories and emotional bonds."

Those are all things that she wants to do, and can't really do on her own, at least not if she wants to keep up the pretence that you have a normal marriage. I bet she tells her friends etc what you've done, so you sound like a typical married couple. Where is the love, and all the little things that matter?

It's 12.30. So far today DH has brought me a cup of tea in bed, we've all done a dog walk, he has made lunch, and has just come in and given me a squeeze and announced that he will clear the snow off my car "As I have better gloves than you". That's love. We have been together for 30 years, and I still look forward to seeing him after work each day.

Just as an update. So yes, my therapist did say that saying you were going to leave and not following through is manipulation in itself and I agree. But it does come from a position of frustration. Complete and utter frustration.

Anyway, I am leaving. I've told her this. The first stage is just to find a rental. I need space, I cant cope anymore.

We are both 39 btw. Someone asked what hours we work. I probably do 50-60 hour weeks and she will do 60+. My work is flexible, I can step back if needed. She is client drive and it's all about delivery and meeting targets and deadlines.

The last post struck a chord. Today she woke up at 6am. Worked. I made her tea, and then made us both some breakfast. She worked this morning and I did washing, did all the ironing and then I cooked lunch. I told her she needed to get some fresh air so I suggested a walk. She has worked all afternoon and will work into the evening. I'm just about to sort tea out, and then do some house admin.

I think she is starting to accept the situation. She is now sending me links to flats - again, I've told her that I will sort it and it's best she just focuses on work. It that's typical.. doesnt want to address the issue

We did go to couples counselling after a lot of asking from me and heel dragging. I stopped it when it became apparent when the counsellor said that until I'm committed to the relationship it went work. And my DW said that the counsellor had told her in a private session that it was me thatI was abusive. I was just shocked by this and couldn't carry on.

Mumsnet has been really good. I see a lot of women come on and say that their partner is 90% great but they have problems with the final 10%. If that 10% is toxic then it doesnt matter how good the 90% is. I told her this today. She says I dont see the good she does for me.. I said I do, but the 10% of hurt is really painful. I took it to an extreme and said would you think a husband was good if he was attentive, loving and caring for 95% of the time but stabbed you with a knife for the other 5%.

Today she has been quiet, removed and just not talking. When she did say something I couldn't hear it so I said "sorry could you repeat that please" ... yet when I dont respond to a question I get instantly accused of ignoring her. I told her, same situation but different way to respond or behave. But like people said..m I'm not here to change her or make her different.

She is lying about the counsellor, I would be surprised if she had said you were abusive.
But it depends on how she has been able to turn it around and appear the victim, she's controlled the counsellor.

She is sending you links to flats to scare you, she's in control, she's calling your bluff.

She has stopped talking to get her own way and wants you to follow her arround asking her whats wrong.
It really is pointless trying to communicate with her, you cannot win.

I don't think you understand, when you are upset, it makes her happy, the longer you stay with her the worse her behaviour towards you will become, your pain is her fix.
And thats just the stuff when your'e together, she will hurt you behind your back in some way.
She really hasn't got your best interests at heart.

You are discussing the fairness again and I know you probably think you are much more emotionally intellegent than her, but I will say again...
she knows exactly what she is doing, she has no emotion that is why she is able to get the upper hand with you, she is thinking in a strategic way. She will always be 10 steps ahead of you.

Take care , you sound like a lovely man.

I am not a hoarder, but I hate throwing stuff away when they could be reused.

This sounds like a line my DH would use. If it was up to him the house would be absolutely full of "useful things" that he can never quite find when he needs them and ends up buying more.

Luckily he accepts he's like this and some things have to go.

OP you realise that almost your entire post (not just this one) was about her? What she thinks, what she feels, what she does?

What about you? How are you doing?

Have you lined up any flats to view? Have you decided if you'll put your things in storage? Have you told any friends or family you've decided to leave and why? Have you planned a rough timeline yet?

How are you doing? And can you articulate that without referencing her?

@Cavagirl

Thats exactly it cavegirl, the op is losing his identity and is just an extention of her.

Thats what she wanted.