Husband’s confession of ‘minor’ dalliances

[Whatdirection]

My head is all over the place and l do not know what to do or think.

About four months ago my husband confessed to three ‘minor’ dalliances about 25-27 years ago. They involved him going out, getting very drunk and kissing three different women. The first time was when our oldest son was 3 months old. The other two occasions he cannot place but the last one could possibly have been close to when we got married. His memory is hazy and when pressed for details, he is unable to give much information. Therefore l know l cannot totally trust his version of events and there might be more to these stories.

For some context, l got pregnant very quickly into our relationship and we had only known each other a year when our son was born. We loved each other very much though and were totally committed to each other.

The first two occasions involved him going out with a group of men (one - a stag do) Although l feel sick about it, due to the intense pressure we were under and his relatively young age (he was 25/26) l do feel l can see how it might have happened.

However the third occasion involved him going out with just one other friend, meeting two other women and going back to their flat. He admits going into the woman’s bedroom but insists no more than a kiss happened. I cannot get past this - he has always been a very moral guy so l am staggered that he didn’t learn from the past two mistakes and repeated the same behaviour again.

My husband has said he has felt terrible about these events for years. He has apologised and expressed remorse. However he has also continually minimised his behaviour by blaming it on drink and saying it was not like he had an affair and he never planned any of it and has repeatedly said ‘ l am not like that’

He said these events have always haunted him and he felt they were a stain on our marriage. He said he didn’t want to die without telling me. He said he hoped as we had a happy marriage l would be able to forgive him. He feels he has been a good husband over the years. It almost feels like he thinks he now has enough ‘credit’ in the bank of our marriage to weather this behaviour.

I do not share such a rosy view of our marriage. He does have good qualities and he can be lovely. But he also can be grumpy, over sensitive , needy, demanding and there have been crunch times where it has felt his needs have triumphed over mine.

I feel l am questioning everything about him and our marriage. I feel so angry and am deeply disappointed in him. His ‘funny little ways’ that l guess we all have now seem intolerable. We have not been physically intimate since and the thought of being so makes me feel sick.

We have started having some marriage counselling. The counsellor thinks he was a bit young and a bit stupid but the drink affected him and he hasn’t done it since. She even used the term ‘mitigating circumstances ‘ to describe the context.

Please help me make some sense of all this. Am l over- reacting, should l cut him more slack? Or should l pay attention to my spidery senses that tell me that something is very wrong here.

Your well being is not safe with this man. It never was.

I don't believe him. Nobody gets this twisted up about a couple of drunken kisses decades ago. He is a liar and a manipulator.

It sounds like he routinely gaslights you and puts himself centre in the marriage.

And all these years, you've gone along, and have thought your marriage was at least a loyal one and that his flaws were known and tolerable.

But he's shown you that it's all bullshit and not what you thought it was at all. And he's not the moral and faithful man, but a liar and cheat. And what's worse is he describes it as minor and it's being minimised.

But it's far bigger than a couple of kisses, it's that your marriage is based on a lie.

And the way he did it on that holiday was fucking awful and so selfish. I'm sorry op. I get the impression that you break your back trying in the marriage and he takes it for granted.

Whatever actually happened you may never know, but you don't have to "get over" it.

Look at your marriage as a whole and decide what you want your life to be. He certainly wouldn't be central in it again, if it were me, whether we stayed married or not.

Agree with @anyfucker

You are not emotionally safe with this person and your welfare is not his priority.

Stop letting him and others minimise this.

Your counsellor is shit too

Yes Category. I have always thought that despite his flaws, he was loving and loyal. This balanced out the daily ‘small stuff’ that routinely ate away at me. I have blamed myself for being irritable and lacking patience with him.
However now it is clear that he has not been loyal then the rest of the marriage has been up ended.

Also, I'd be concerned these revelations from the far past are a distraction or scene-setting for something more recent.

@Whatdirection

Yes Category. I have always thought that despite his flaws, he was loving and loyal. This balanced out the daily ‘small stuff’ that routinely ate away at me. I have blamed myself for being irritable and lacking patience with him. However now it is clear that he has not been loyal then the rest of the marriage has been up ended.

This is basically the reason why I would not now return to my exh (not that he has invited me to!). However, for my own sanity I have chosen not to go back over every single event in our lives and reinterpret them. To me, that would be allowing him to devalue my life, in retrospect.

When my ex's affair(s) came out, he distracted from it partly by accusing me of doing horrible things. I have a crap memory, and had to do detective work to find out what I had been doing on the occasions he brought up, to defend myself - looking at my old calendar, going through receipts and thinking back really hard to find out what I had done at that time. It was just 3 years before. No way could I work out dates and times of something that happened 20 years ago - even big events - if they weren't backed up by photos etc. Not everyone has that kind of memory.

That's not to defend your dh, though. He's chosen to burden you with this half-knowledge, in this mindfucking way. Of course you have to entertain the possibility that there's more to it - with or without any evidence that there might be. He's opened up that Pandora's box.

Yes Raven. It is mindfucking. It is a Pandora’s box. I will never be able to closure on this.

I am going to go out for a walk with a friend who has been very supportive. However, even she at the start, said she had made up her mind just to listen and not take sides. I think she is a bit panicky at the thought of us splitting up though and doesn’t want to feel she has encouraged it in any way. She has changed her tune over the months though and she is v. disappointed in his minimising and lack of effort. I think she thinks he needs help in recognising what needs doing.

She is very lovely though and has been the one person who has regularly checked in with me the last four months. The other friends l have told have not followed up at all with any well being enquires.

I think it can be easier for friends who are not as close to take sides - those who know you both will feel uncomfortable about dissing anyone, as they know it will be awkward if they want to keep the friendship - or if, for example, you broke up - and they badmouthed him - then you gave things a second chance after all.

I think the best response I had was from a very plain-spoken neighbour who has probably never felt awkward about anything in his life. He just said "Kick him on the balls!". As I don't know you or your husband, I'd like to pass on that sentiment.

I'm glad you have a supportive friend. During the most shitty times of your life, friends show their true colours.

The minimising (I didn't have an affair, it was the drink) and scripted comments (I'm a good man, this is not me etc) must be infuriating. It's his way of making himself feel better. He's trying to control the situation.

I believe alcohol just gives you the confidence to action what's on your mind. It doesn't turn you into a completely different person.

"Alcohol changes your behaviour not your morals. If you do something drunk, you've probably considered it sober." A quote I came across the other day. Your supposed counsellor has clearly fuelled his excuses about alcohol leading to his cheating. I do hope you manage to find a more professional counsellor. She sounds shit. Imagine the damage someone like her could cause?

The selective memory is very convenient too. I've encountered this on many occasions. It wears very fucking thin in time. How convenient he can recall the 3 acts of cheating but not the specific details. There is definitely more to this.

Enjoy your walk. What a shitty time to be going through this.

OP, you might find it helpful to write down how you feel - as you have here. Your fear that there is more to it than he has admitted (only a kiss in the bedroom is frankly unbelievable) and the fact that his lack of empathy for you has undermined your marriage. He has known about this for many years, for you it is new and raw.
If you write it down, you can then decide whether or not to give it to him to read - in which case you can tell him very firmly that he needs to read and acknowledge how he has made you feel, not justify himself.
I'd also get counselling just for you, to help you decide what you want to do next. You don't have to decide quickly, however much he may want you to swiftly forgive him and move on. You don't have to go back to your marriage as it was. You also don't have to stay with him

Hi Op

So sorry this is happening to you. I had a exh that lied, in my case about drugs and alcohol. What stunned me was how he could look me in the eyes and deny what was in front of me. I would encourage you to have a look at the chumplady website. She is spot on about trickle truth and the main question being is this relationship acceptable to you? She is also calls out a lot of bs counsellors who minimise cheating.

www.chumplady.com/2019/02/esther-perel-can-bite-me/

Good luck and trust your instincts! Switzerland friends might be useful for you too

You're not overreacting. Your view of him has been severely damaged. His is simply not the person you thought he was. That's a really big thing. It means you are having to totally alter your view of him and grapple with the fact you are in a relationship with a different person that you thought you were.

You have the right to digest that information as you choose.

Alcohol changes your behaviour not your morals. If you do something drunk, you've probably considered it sober.

I second that quote.
I was discussing an incident involving alcohol with my dad (who's French). He pointed out that in France being drunk is not considered a mitigating circumstance in a court of law; it's considered an aggravating one. I think they have a point.

Does your DH want out of the marriage?

Does he want to provoke you to end it?
Is this a possibility? So that he can say it was only a few kissed decades ago and then paint you as the unreasonable crazy bitch?

How emotionally intimate were you before this came out?

I do love Chumplady

From reading probably hundreds of threads like this, what I've found is that it always ends up being so much simpler.

An unpleasant man is an unpleasant man. The man who nitpicks, judges, isn't particularly kind, is happy to go on the attack, is a pain in the arse to live with... he's also the kind of man to have an affair, the kind of man to lie, generally.

And the opposite is also true. Someone who is truly a 'moral person' is usually just that. Fair in all dealings - so happy to do their share around the house, give people the benefit of the doubt, just be nice and easy to be with in general. While those that like to call themselves moral and upstanding but are in reality judgemental, insecure and unkind... it always seems to end up that no, they weren't that 'moral' after all.

The colour of your soul is what it is, it's usually the same thread that runs through everything. They don't tend to be lovely in one arena and miserly and angry in another. They just don't.

Your husband sounds unpleasant. So I would lay bets that given these revelations, you can probably be assured that he's been fully unfaithful, many times, and has lied to you for your entire marriage. Because he sounds exactly that kind of man, with his mean-minded outlook.

So you could boil this down to - do I like him? Is he lovely, and caring, does he build me up? Doesn't sound like it. From that point of view, I don't think your options look that bad at all. They now include being justified in walking away from a rather nasty little man, if that's what you want.

Wisewords @YoniAndGuy

There has been a frightening lack of empathy for me. Even if this can be explained by his mental health issues, his inability to process and understand my distress has meant further damage has resulted and l have not been able to heal in any way ... It actually makes me feel scared to share any future with him

As with the assumption of loyalty - now completely trashed - this is what does the damage; you can't repair a marriage on your own, and if the other isn't engaging it's hard to see a future in it

I agree it's important to look at your overall happiness rather than just one incident, and from what you've said it's just not there. As PPs have said you appear to be making all the effort, with little coming from him except his wish to look like the good guy

The question is whether this can ever be enough. It wouldn't be for many of us, but of course only you can decide

Yes, that was a superb post YoniAndGuy. Such men can put a gloss on things only so long, but in the end they are what they are and it comes down to whether someone can live with that

The only good news is that this doesn't seem what I'd call an "emergency situation" so OP can make her decision when she's good and ready - but sooner or later a decision will have to be made if she's ever to have any peace of mind

@Whatdirection read @YoniAndGuy’s because it is spot on. Stop talking to him about his ‘dalliances’ and start thinking about how nasty he is in general. Don’t waste any more time or money on joint counselling because it can’t fix this.

1. Get counselling for yourself.
2. See a lawyer about divorce.
3. Tell him, your friends and family that the marriage is over.

Well l am back from my walk. My friend was lovely and allowed me to vent and cry. She is very much of the mind that if he had made me happier over the years then l would not be doing so much soul searching now. Like some of you wise Mumsnetters it’s about seeing the whole picture now and l am struggling to find examples of how he makes my life better. The marriage has to be worth saving in order to fight for it and l am not sure it is.
However l have just realised today is the anniversary of my Dad’s death four years ago. He was a difficult angry man and mixed emotions are always thrown up on this day. I am not going to confront things head on today due to this. It might all be a bit much.
I have a short break planned next week when l have to prepare for some training for my job. I am going to use this time to decompress
and reflect. A breathing space is much needed at the moment. Thank you all for being with me while l process all of this - it has felt so supportive and that l am no longer alone.

Love the ChumpLady link. I watched one of Esther Perel’s Ted talks about infidelity and it left me feeling very uneasy.

Perel's views on infidelity are not up my street either, but I think the discussion techniques she uses in the "counselling sessions" are useful for those who do want to try. On the podcasts, you can also tell which of the couples do actually value one another and have something they would like to save. Listening to that really made me realise how little value there was left in my relationship with my ex.

ChumpLady is great support for anyone being told they shouldn't be so angry! I guess I'm just tired of the angry stage all these years later.

Sounds as if some private counselling might help you in general, OP? Thinking about how your relationship with your dad might connect with your relationship with your husband?