If you split up and it was your fault did you still take what you were ‘entitled’ to?

[Legoteacups]

For background - we’ve been married 17 years and together for 18, I’m 36 and dh is 46. Two dc, 10 and 5, I’ve been a sahm on and off, working part time now, but I’ve never put anything much in whereas dh earns over £100k and has various shares and properties and a pension worth a sizeable amount. He owns the house outright, I’m not on the deeds even though we bought it when we were together.
So basically I’ve not put anything of worth into the marriage and I’d be leaving with nothing, dh has a lot of savings etc too, I don’t have much of a pension even and haven’t been able to claim child benefit because of dh being a high earner. I’ve no access to any joint accounts. I have my own account for my salary but it’s only about £1k a month.
I have done everything - absolutely everything - for the children since they were born.

I am not happy. It isn’t dh’s fault, there’s nothing terrible, we aren’t arguing, I’m just very very unhappy. I’ve lost over two stone - now only 7.5stone at 5ft 7” I cant eat. It’s not a choice. I’m just really really unhappy and I feel guilty about how unhappy I am.
If I tell him I want to separate it doesn’t seem fair to take any money from him when he has earned it all and I’ve done nothing apart from laze around on and off since having the children.
If you instigated the split as the lower earner did you still take any money behind child maintenance? It seems very unfair, like stealing.

Hi OP. You absolutely deserve what is yours and should feel no guilt about taking it.

Quite apart from the contribution that you have been making in terms of childcare and housekeeping, I’m sorry to say that over the years while you have been the SAHM and he has been working, it is your earnings potential that has been sacrificed. Your husband will continue to earn well, because you have facilitated his career progression by caring for his children, being his housekeeper, etc. You can’t get back those years where you could have been developing your career.

It doesn’t sound as if you have any control over your finances and perhaps therefore your life, and this may be what is affecting your extraordinary unhappiness.

Before you leave him - are you sure that your relationship might not get better if you speak with him about it all and work together on building a more equal relationship? That said, I would agree with pp in that if he is financially controlling then perhaps it would be better to get your exit strategy lines up without raising too many suspicions and allowing him to hide much of your wealth.

Good luck OP. Big hugs.

Think about if the situation was reversed.

You worked the whole time and your husband was at home, raising the children and without adequate access to money. You have a large bank balance and pension.

He wants to separate but doesn't feel entitled to a share of 'your' money as he hasn't worked for it. You agree and skip off into the sunset with all the assets. He's left to start from scratch, find housing for him and the kids, get a job, and try to make ends meet. Not your problem though.

Sound fair? Is that something you'd do?

This is one of the most chilling threads I have ever read on Mumsnet and I have been here for a long time.

Please access counselling and the freedom programme

I think your solicitor told you something that was good news that the law will help and protect you and the level of conditioning and abuse you have been subjected to turned that into something else so you went looking for men’s rights.

OP, I think you need to contact an organisation like women's aid. Abuse doesn't have to be physical, your husband is clearly financially abusive and probably emotionally too.

Can you not see the knots you are tying yourself in here? For example, you seem to think you shouldn't leave the marriage with any money because you haven't had any access to it while in the marriage - when in fact your husband SHOULD have been giving you access to what is family money all along, the fact that's he financially abusive means you'll need to fight for every penny, not leave it all to him!

@Legoteacups

I’m just really unhappy. I don’t feel I am the same person I was when I got married. I don’t feel heard. I feel like I am not equal and I don’t like it, I feel as though I have to run everything by him because he’s in charge. I feel stifled and lost. But none of those are very good reasons.

Those are brilliant reasons. You feel bullied because he is abusing you. I would leave too and take half of the MARITAL assets.

If he didn't want to lose them he should have treated you as an equal.

Why do you think a nearly 30yo chose a teenager to marry? Control

I think you need to get angry. How dare he pluck you from your teenage years and treat you this way? How DARE HE

I think the most important thing is you see someone about yourself, you are not in a good place, it might be your marriage but it sounds like your problems are deeper than that, you need to sort your eating disorder issues and try seeing a relationship counsellor to see if sorting the money situation out would help - I'm guessing there's no reason why you would be irresponsible with the family money (and it is family money not his, you contribute in other ways) eg my friend doesn't have access to the savings because she has impulse control issues with spending and it was agreed she was better off only having access to the money she needs, her choice?

He hasn't worked harder. You've done everything for the children including when you were sick after one of the births. He has not worked 12-16 hour days every day I BET.

100k is also not THAT big a deal of a job. it is SUPER EASY to do well at work if someone else is doing the wirework. My DH earns that as does my brother as reasonable middle managers in big corporates and guess what? they both unload dishwashers, take kids to park, get up in the night, take time off when their childcare is sick, whether that be their wives or nannies.

Please get some support you are honestly being abused.

Thousands and thousands of pounds you have saved the family in childcare. Where is that money? It's in the house. It's in his pension. It's in his sodding ISA that you have no access too. It is your money.

Op, you are being abused you just can't see it. Please listen to the replies here, these women are incredibly knowledgeable.
You need to leave and you are perfectly entitled to your share. He would not be in this privileged position if it wasn't for you.
As an anecdote my friend recently got divorced, husband had huge house, his own business, she brought up his 2 children full time plus had 2 of their own they were married for 10 years, she left with £40k when she was entitled to over £1million, she felt the same as you, not fair to take "his" money. A few months later he stopped paying maintenance. She was left desolate. Don't be naive op, protect yourself and your children's future.

You sound like my mum OP.

Ridiculous martyring yourself to this extent.

Truth is no one can make you see your worth and contributions for what they are if you are so stubborn in wanting to believe so poorly about yourself.

Stop waiting for your husband or the world to tell you what you deserve. You have to tell yourself you are worth something.

As the child of a never ending martyring mum I can honestly tell you you dc will one day be very angry at your insistence on being more of a victim than you actually need to be or are.

I think actually this marriage could be saved, but it will take a lot of reshuffling things around and counselling, plus seeing a gp.

You need to see a gp first about your depression, that's probably what is causing you to lose weight. Medical help on that first.

Then counselling. Going to be a tricky one to do during covid, but maybe some places are doing skype/teams sessions. You need counselling on your own, so does your partner, and eventually sessions together to discuss things.

He needs to give you access to the bank accounts, and he should have access to yours. That is important, all of them. If he won't, then none of this will work. It's not about you wanting to take money from him, it's about having a joint account so you can get money without needing permission from him. My partner and I have a joint account, all money goes into it. If we want to buy something big, we talk to each other about it. You shouldn't need to ask permission to buy things like clothes or whatever, or only be using your money for that. If he won't do it, then just get the divorce.

I think also it might be good if he hands over the properties to you, in a sense that you look after them. Does he rent these properties? I think your name should be on these and you can do the managing of them, manage the books, the cleaning etc. It gives you something to do and a purpose in the relationship (although you do already have a purpose, but you can't see that). This gives you work to do, it's something that isnt just the kids.

Of course if you're really just not happy and want out, that's fine, but I think if you tried those things, you might feel better about yourself. I think you've lost your sense of purpose, you feel used and undermined. He's maybe not meant to treat you that way, but he has. It's totally up to you how you go about this.

Aside from the “it’s all family/joint money” argument, work out how much 10 years of childcare would cost, plus after school care, plus a housekeeper, a cleaner. Don’t forget overnight care, did he get up with the kids?

Oh my god , he’s done an absolute number on you!

First of all - you are not the one at fault, even though fault doesn’t matter here. HE is hugely at fault for abusing you, financially and emotionally. Not giving you equal access to family money as his wife and a sahm, and making you think you are lazy and worthless. Appalling!

And he’s gaslighted you so effectively you think he’s in the right and you’ve put in nothing of worth! You’ve done all the childcare and housework, and enabled him to work and do nothing else. I agree 100k is not that big a deal, especially with doing nothing else. It’s not a salary only a rarefied few could be worthy of earning.

Whereas you’ve worked much longer hours than him - doing a job that would require two people at least if paid - for the sake of the family.

You need to get angry and take what is rightfully yours - which will be more than half - for your sake and that of the children.

I would also consider a different solicitor as it is not weighted in women’s favour. It’s just not as monstrously weighted against women and children as SOME men would like.

The courts consider the needs of the parties- in particular the children’s needs - with housing needs coming first.

I agree ... get angry ..
And then take the bastards soul ...

This is madness and unnecessary martyrdom.
You have raised two children with little assistance from your husband. While friends of yours may have raised kids and held down jobs, there is no rule saying you must also be Wonder Woman.
He is also financially abusive, and I'd say he has conditioned you over the years to believe it is all his and you are worthless.

I lived in the middle of nowhere in the early years of my kids life. I didn't work because I couldn't due to distance, and my husband could not help as much as he'd like due to his job as a cattle and sheep station owner. I have a genetic illness that manifested later in life, so I take on jobs I can do from home. I earn irregularly and cannot work any more than I do. Am I lazy and privileged? No, because I am raising two amazing humans.

My husband would have no idea how to 'run' the house or the kids lives. He could not work in the manner he needs to without me, and when I could work I actually had to quit because he couldn't manage due to hours and exhaustion from farming. Am I lazy and privileged here? No, I made a sacrifice because we are a team, and it was the necessary thing to do.

If we divorced, I would feel no qualms about dividing in half our home, our investment properties, and his super. He would not have been able to function without what I did.

You are so unhappy you are starving yourself. This is not sustainable. Has your husband even noticed how thin you are getting? Who looks after you?

You have him up on some kind of pedestal (and I bet he loves that) and consider yourself somehow unworthy, simply because he had a job and worked. This does not make him special. It means he has had success BECAUSE of your backing and support in the background. Earning money does not give him a halo, and you some need to flagellate yourself for not .You raised your children. That is far more important than earning shit tonnes of money.

I would see a therapist to try and restore your self- esteem and sense of worth before you divorce him. I think you may also need to see a GP, as you may be depressed and before you find yourself collapsing and hospitalised from malnutrition or a serious eating disorder.

To be blunt, if you continue to take the position that it's all his, you and your children will be on the streets with a bag of clothes from your teenage years and nothing else.
So, if you can't see the need to take money for yourself in a divorce - do so for your children, to keep their lifestyles the same and so they don't suffer because of your determination to let this abusive man continue to prosper at your expense.

Get yourself to the GP, please see a mental health professional, and if you still think it's all his and you don't deserve anything, fight for your children.
I apologise if I have been harsh, and I don't mean to upset you - but this man has beaten you down and you are not thinking logically or sensibly at all. You have worked. You facilitated his career, kept his house and raised your children.
I'd take the prick for every penny I could and then some. He owes you.
🖤

Isnt the law now a “no fault” divorce. Each party is allowed enough of the marital assets to set up a new home and look after the kids.

You do need to get some counselling to find your self worth. Your husband is financially abusive, you need to find your anger at this marriage not being a partnership and tell yourself you are allowed and deserve your share. Eg the house - after 17 years of marriage, everything is shared.

I feel like you need a cheerleading squad.

Doesn't a judge have to sign off on the financial/ child residency agreements before a divorce can be finalized? I doubt a judge would sign something so heavily weighted in your husband's favour and which would place the kids at a disadvantage.

I’m not an equal member though.
If I had access to joint money it would be different maybe but I don’t. When dh used to be away a lot for work I’d worry about the washing machine or boiler breaking, or needing a tyre etc because I’d no way of accessing money to pay for emergencies. I’d have had to call him and ask him to transfer it I suppose.

That is financial abuse!

You should always have access to joint funds for those kind of things.

Also your H went away on business trips - could he have done that without you? What would that have cost in terms of Nannies or career progression?

The law is set up to try to enable both parties to a divorce to live as comparable as possible a lifestyle after divorce. The compromises come from there as there is rarely enough money (except the super rich) for this.
You want out. Why? If he is so innocent and blameless why are you unhappy?
It takes two to divorce - and blame on both sides (usually, except violence adultery etc.).

And despite what you say - women are almost always financially less well off after divorce and men pretty soon recover. He has been working and progressing his career over these years - so he will go on earning more than you. You have taken a career hit and are extremely unlikely to be able to out earn him in the future.

If this is real you need to take everything you are entitled to. Because and I know from experience you will never build your career as high as before and you may not get any money from him when you divorce.

My situation was similar to yours in that exH earned a six figure salary while after the kids were born, I worked PT or not at all. For years I contributed relatively little financially but worked my socks off looking after two children with a small age gap, running the house and taking care of all life admin for both of us. We had no family support nearby, which made things tougher.

I instigated the divorce (he had an affair but was desperate to stay together) and took 65% of the overall pot plus he has to pay me spousal maintenance for a few years. I don’t feel in the least bit guilty. The children have a good standard of living with us both and after the initial shock and hurt at us splitting up are now well adjusted. I’m still in the family home, which minimised the disruption to them when they initially did find things tough.

I had a well-paid job before having children and if I’d chosen to go back FT it would have been hard for exH to have been able to climb the ladder like he did, as he’d have had to do half the pick ups/ drop offs, hospital appointments, etc. His earnings increased considerably during the period after we had children and I think I helped facilitate that.

Even though we are now divorced and he has a new partner, he still laments and pines for things to be like they were - he misses me doing everything now he has to run a house, do his own life admin and take full responsibility for the kids himself!

You sound like you have been brainwashed and it would be useful to have some counselling before instigating a split so you can get things straight in your head. I can’t believe he put the house in his name only, but it matters very little if you are married. I agree with the PP who said there’s no such thing as ‘my’ and ‘your’ money when you’re married - it’s all ‘ours.’

OP, let's just say for argument's sake that you were knocked down by the proverbial bus just after you had your second baby.

What would your husband have done in these circumstances of a full time job but a home and 2 tinies to care for? Given up his job to take care of the children, liquidating assets so he could afford to live whilst doing this? Or would he have hired in a nanny and a housekeeper? All of these options would cost him a significant amount of money! If he's on just over 100k, a nanny and housekeeper might not even be affordable options for him. What would he do if the nanny or the housekeeper were off sick and unable to look after the kids? Nannies are not on call 24/7. Or would he quickly look for someone else to marry as it would be a cheaper and more convenient option than having to manage employed staff? Or would he try and manage with a cleaner twice a week and child minders?

You grossly underestimate just how much you "facilitate" him being able to go out to work without a moment's thought about anything to do with wife-work. It is true that you can do a good job or a poor job of looking after kids and the home: are you saying that your house is filthy and you feed your kids crisps and junk food whilst ignoring them as you stare at a screen, that when you go out you lock them in their bedrooms: is that why you think it's something anyone can do and you "do nothing" to contribute? If you are actually a loving, caring and diligent mother to your kids, I find it so sad that you value that at zero and your husband's ability to earn a 6 figure salary as far more important and worthwhile. You are both performing different but equally valuable functions to provide a good home for the family: please try and get out of this mindset of "knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing."

Last but not least, you are clearly in a state of deep distress: can you see a counsellor or therapist (online obviously) to help you work through whatever is causing this?