I am shocked by so many tales of nasty, controlling, bullying men on here...

[snowleopard]

I know it is very common. I know domestic abuse goes on in many poeple's lives and people often don't realise. But what makes men like this? We hear a lot about how women can grow up with low self-esteem and ending up in abusive relationships... but that couldn't happen if there weren't so many men out there who are prepared to hit, belittle, control and abuse.

I would really like to know what makes men like this in the first place. It's a great truism that domestic abusers can come from any background, social group and walk of life - so what do they have in common? Is there a feature of their upbringing that made them this way - or is it something we can atrribute more to society in general?

Is anyone studying this or does anyone know anything about it or have any ideas? I'm interested in discussing it, but also I have a son - how can we make sure we aren't raising these abusers?

apologies, i am actually starting to get angry at the implication that it is a womans fault and that she is to blame for provoking a man to beat her.

i think io need to step away

mamazon - he was truly vile No-one should have to put up with that.

I

And how about the way mothers bring up their sons? Do you think that women have any influence at all over whether their sons grow up to be violent or peaceful?

why is it how mothers bring up their sons? each child has afather as well.

Anna - im sorry but are you trying to provoke a backlash here or are you just a man trying to excuse his own behaviour? im sorry but i just cannot see how any woman can try so hard to justify the violance that has been described here.

HappyDaddy - I'm glad you're posting on this thread - it's comforting and encouraging to hear there are men like you out there that wouldn't ever be provoked (although I'm sorry about your own situation ). Thanks for posting.

No, mamazon, you are misunderstanding me .

I want to know, very specifically, whether MN posters think women can have a civilising influence on men.

I know boys have fathers too - I just want to know what women collectively can do (if anything at all) to help men control themselves.

But Anna - you're not talking about dealing with rational human beings here (i.e. violent, abusive men). I think you're being deliberately obtuse and provocative to be honest.

all children, male and female need to be taught from an early age that violance is unaceptable.

that no matter what happens you cannot excuse their resorting to violance.

they need to grow up with a healthy respect for the opposite sex.

society needs to stop placnig blame at womans feet.

Anna, I was brought up by my mum as my dad died when I was very young. Is she the reason i have the attitude towards women that I do? Or is it to do with all the other men in my family, Uncles, Grandads, Cousins all being hard working, respectful people who loved the women in their lives and would never ever dream of raising a hand to them. My dad's dad had a volcanic temper. My nan, his wife, used to sit and watch him ranting and raving, smirking to herself knowing that he would calm down in a minute.

Men who hit women KNOW it's wrong, why else would they try to apportion blame "you made me do it" "it's your fault". If they thought there was nothing wrong with it, they wouldn't bother making excuses like that.

Men can easily communicate as well as women, abusive, cowardly disgusting men CHOOSE not to. They choose the easy way of acting like a prick rather than be a real man. These men are not men, no matter how "manly" they act. They are cowards and nothing will ever excuse them from that fact.

Nothing.

Men control themselves. Women control themselves.

It's no easier for either party. OK men are physically stronger but women could wreak a lot of damage on children if they wanted to and sure as hell feel like it sometimes when the children are driving you mad.

The point is, all adults have a duty of self-control. I will teach my children (male or female) this. Grown men must take responsibility for themselves.

"all adults have a duty of self-control."

Well exactly! Treating each other with respect. Why would a man want to hit a woman? And when it comes to 'provocation' why would a woman want to provoke a man to the point where he would want to commit violence? There must be so emotionally povery-stricken households...

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OI - well, look at lisalisa's earlier post where she explained how her daughters gang up on her son and tease him mercilessly for 15 minutes or so until he loses it... don't you think that that kind of upbringing is teaching girls that it is OK to provoke men, and creating in a boy a feedback system in the brain to react to that teasing?

I think that that kind of behavioural example in childhood is very bad as it is not teaching either girls or boys self-control.

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lisalisa - OK they are punished. But why do you let it escalate like that? Why? It's so bad for children to get in those habits...

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Anna8888, I can't believe that you can read some of the stories on here - mamazon's, for example - completely ignore them, and then continue desperately trying to push your theory that when men do violence it is somehow the fault of their mothers or their partners or their sisters or their grandmothers...

I don't know anything about you, don't even know whether you're a man or a woman, but I can't help wondering whether you're in some kind of deep denial here.

You seem really stuck on this idea of provocation even though people who have real experience of male violence against women, both victims and onlookers, are telling you that provocation is not the reason why men abuse women. Why are you holding so fast to that argument Anna, when the reality is actually something different?

also, I don't like the suggestion that girls provoke boys...

Children provoke children

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No I'm not trying to push the idea that it is women's fault, I am trying to see whether MN posters think that women have any power whatsoever to influence men (as young boys, as adults, whenever) into more civilised behaviour.

As parents, yes.

As friends and partners we can probably all influence each other and help each other.

Just because we are women? No.

"I want to know, very specifically, whether MN posters think women can have a civilising influence on men."

Anna, that is so patronising it's not true. Why on earth should women need/try to have a civilising influence on men? (The implication is that men are less civilised to begin with.)

If you are talking very specifically about civilising physically abusive men then it's a red herring.

M&J - so you think that adult men direct violence towards women but adult women are not able to deflect male violence?