AIBU? Waiting to be ‘proposed to’ is patriarchal, mysoginistic bullshit put on us by the system.

[Sparky888]

As adults, why are women expected to ‘wait until they are asked’ by the person they share their life with?

It’s a structure designed to keep women in their place (or any person wanting to progress with seriously long-term commitment).

What other structure as an adult requires us to wait until a another adult, who we share our life and plans with, to ‘ask us’?

How do we still accept this is as a normal-ish part of being an adult woman. ?

Absolutely OP! Some of the things I read on here about women 'waiting' for proposals, kerfuffles about engagement rings, white dresses etc. Ugh.

I'm nearly 50, DH and I discussed getting married, set a date 6 weeks from then, no engagement ring, no wedding rings, my father didn't 'give me away', I wore blue and I'm a much better public speaker than DH so I gave a speech. Kept my own name. 16 years later we're still very happy and have a marriage of absolute equals.

The thought of some contrived romantic proposal makes me shudder. I'm always amazed that young women still buy into all this bollox. It's not only patriarchal nonsense, it's cringeworthy!

It’s such an odd thing I suspect fuelled by social media. In the past if you had a conversation about getting married you were engaged. I’m mid 40s and don’t know anyone who had an elaborate proposal. I don’t even have an engagement ring. We nearly did in Vegas on spur of moment. Following February we had a conversation (in McDonald’s!) and said we’d do it before a holiday we had booked in the May. A friends’ 20 year old daughter hearing this was imagining DH down on one knee in McDonald’s - it obviously didn’t happen and her Mum and Dad told her they’d bought an engagement ring in pawnshop and that was that - no proposal. It surprised me that she thought a down on one knee proposal was the norm.

Couldn’t agree more, OP. DH and I decided to get married by having an adult conversation.

@Sundance2741

In my view, young women are also much more focused on maintaining their gender role in terms of trying to look glamorous, wear lots of make up and doing generally 'girly' things than they ever were when I was young. Feels like we have gone back in time in a lot of ways. So guess that goes with waiting for the man to ask???

I’ve also noticed this and it’s depressing. Young women seem so homogenous these days.

Well I didn’t wait around for a proposal and I’ve been married 32 years.
So I’m surprised if young women do nowadays.

[quote Sparky888]@mixmatch

But women don’t just ‘do it to themselves’ if the culture and system traces it to them whilst young and then re-inforces it. I don’t think people on the thread seem angry, more than the tradition seems out dated / ridiculous now, to some.

If a couple have already agreed to get married, a later public proposal is just a show for others - fine of course. Personally I consider them engaged when they have discussed and agreed.

I was asking about people (women), actually waiting for the proposal / discussion to be instigated by the man. It’s that waiting, not being ‘allowed’ to bring up the subject, which I object to in our culture.[/quote]
I suspect that the vast majority of situations are as you describe here...couples discussing marriage and long term plans together prior to any official proposal. Most people cohabitate prior to marriage now, and long term relationship discussions are usually a part of that. So a proposal with no prior discussion because the woman is not allowed to be a part of, I would think is exceedingly rare. Even those on this thread who said they waited for it, discussed things before hand.

I do think social media has dramatically changed the actual meaning of these types of physical acts and shows such as getting down on one knee. While the motions are the same, the meanings behind them are very different than they were a hundred years ago. Hell, anymore, a great, over the top proposal is fantastic social media currency, and to maximize that value takes a lot of pre planning.

I think that is a large part of why there seems to be such a disconnect for some people...for many, especially younger women, this tradition has almost a diametrically opposed meaning to them than it does to someone who holds a more antiquated view of the tradition.

Going back to my first post on this thread...fortunately women have the choice and option to assign what ever value and meaning they want to the act of a Proposal, or choose not to participate at all.

[quote Sparky888]@mixmatch

But women don’t just ‘do it to themselves’ if the culture and system traces it to them whilst young and then re-inforces it. I don’t think people on the thread seem angry, more than the tradition seems out dated / ridiculous now, to some.

If a couple have already agreed to get married, a later public proposal is just a show for others - fine of course. Personally I consider them engaged when they have discussed and agreed.

I was asking about people (women), actually waiting for the proposal / discussion to be instigated by the man. It’s that waiting, not being ‘allowed’ to bring up the subject, which I object to in our culture.[/quote]
@Sparky888

Who said the proposal had to be public?

The whole "not being allowed" to bring up marriage is actually more a recent thing, because commitment and marriage have become almost a dirty word in some quarters because some people believe you're meant to play the "cool" girl who shares all the benefits of marriage but is not so "old fashioned" to "pressure" a guy into actually legally committing to her.

Where marriage was the norm before living together and kids, no woman would wait eons anyway for any man and men damn well knew it.

What I had meant to add to the above (got distracted by something else) is that it's all very well saying "blame the evil patriarchy arghhh!!!" but at some point women as grown adults actually have to take responsibility for their own actions if they're unhappy with how things are in their own relationship.

In my experience, when the man and woman in the relationship are on the same page and both keen to progress the relationship, there's no one hanging about "waiting" as things just naturally happen in the timescale both want. The imbalance comes when (normally) the man is less keen to commit than the woman is, so the woman chooses to hang about like a lemon, waiting for the man to bestow legal rights to the relationship when she has a mouth to speak up, and on top of that, they're literally millions of men out there and she's free to leave the relationship at any point, for any reason she likes. More fool to women like this. I guess in such cases it's easier to blame the patriarchy, rather than your own actions and your choice to stay with such men.

Personally, I wouldn't even want to marry a man where I felt that imbalance and if a woman feels she's being strung along waiting for a proposal she feels she shouldn't talk about, then it's actually a useful sign that the relationship isn't right in the first place or you're not mature enough to get married if you can't bring up something so basic.

TBH I have never heard one of the women who is ‘waiting’ blaming the patriarchy.

I didn’t wait, but I don’t like the culture of waiting, which does exist.
The culture makes it generally ok, it is re-inforcing, as something normal, accepted, something to be managed and dealt with, which different generations discuss. It’s the culture of it that I dislike. If the culture, more widely, taught girls and women to know their own mind, voice their own opinions, and leave the relationship if you don’t agree on the key goals, that would be different. Women are often encouraged, by different generations, to hold on, as if they’ve caught a prize fish.

I didn’t wait, I told my DH, well I said shall we get married, he said ok when are you thinking, took us all of 5 mins to settle on a date, I picked my own rings, he picked his and the rest is history.