AIBU? Waiting to be ‘proposed to’ is patriarchal, mysoginistic bullshit put on us by the system.

[Sparky888]

As adults, why are women expected to ‘wait until they are asked’ by the person they share their life with?

It’s a structure designed to keep women in their place (or any person wanting to progress with seriously long-term commitment).

What other structure as an adult requires us to wait until a another adult, who we share our life and plans with, to ‘ask us’?

How do we still accept this is as a normal-ish part of being an adult woman. ?

I can't stand speeches. Every wedding I've been to only men speak! How can people think that's ok? Would love to hear a woman stand up and speak.

You should have come to my wedding! I'd been to enough weddings with hours of dull speeches where the guests got bored/died of hunger to know it wasn't what I wanted.

There was a strict 5 minute rule and speeches from me, my DH, his best man - his brother, and my mum. Done. And most of us came in under 5 minutes too.

YANBU, and also it's quite a new thing that the woman is already "sharing her life" and "making plans" with this person.

Cannot understand for the life of me staged proposals, or the situations you hear about on MN all the time where the couple have agreed to get married but will not consider themselves engaged until the man has, at his leisure, produced an Instagrammable proposal moment on holiday.

I find a lot of modern wedding traditions nauseating. It's like a "Festival of Us and Our Great Love". The focus on it being "a party" or "a public declaration of love" allows people to lose sight of the legal significance.

My friend made a speech at her wedding and it was a huge drama, the groom almost called the wedding off because she wanted to drop some of the patriarchal bullshit bits of the ceremony. His gran still won't speak to her because she refused to change her surname and give up her job after marrying. I really wish she hadn't married him, he's one of the most sexist twats I've ever met.

I also agree with whoever said they hate engagement rings. I know lots of people love them and it's a personal choice, but whenever I see one all I can think of is those "sold, subject to contract" house signs.

This really surprises me too. I would assume that the women on MN saying this are very intelligent with otherwise strong feminist ideals so the 'waiting to be proposed to' thing seems very at odds with this. We had a conversation and decided to get married, chose rings and planned the event together (though hadn't factored in Covid when we decided it would be this year .

'I find a lot of modern wedding traditions nauseating. It's like a "Festival of Us and Our Great Love"'

God, I love this thread just YES to all of this. Its like people see it as their opportunity to act like celebrities for the day. I cant imagine anyone gives that much of a shit about my partner and I and our relationship, beyond generally wishing us well. And I find stuff like gushy speeches, public fawning, public kissing, first dances etc absolutely mortifying - that stuff should be privately expressed between the two of you and not inflicted on anyone else in my humble opinion!

'but whenever I see one all I can think of is those "sold, subject to contract" house signs.'

brilliant!

I hate most of the father of the bride speeches, so many seem to be almost grateful that someone wants their daughter and they're not going to be some sort of social disgrace spinster.

Agree! Also where the father of the bride just goes on and on about how beautiful and kind she is (like she's some sort of Disney princess) and doesn't mention any other qualities. Er...hello...she is a full human being with a brain and a personality.

Oh and no engagement ring, no giving away, just a two minute speech, no being introduced as 'husband and wife' and no changing of my surname. It was a lovely ceremony with vows and music chosen by us followed by a fabulous late lunch for our friends and family, at our favourite venue.

Let’s face if you are not in position to talk as equals about the status of your relation (marriage or whatever), money and contribution to housework, then you are with the wrong person and in the wrong relationship.

It occurs to me that in some ways, it's almost like the traditional roles have reversed in these situations, and the woman is effectively "proposing" by making it clear over a long period of time that she wants to marry the man, and the man might eventually give his consent by delivering The Proposal.

I went to a wedding in Canada years ago where both the bride and groom were walked down the aisle by both parents. I thought that was lovely and really marked the joining of families.
No thanks to bride being ‘given away’ by her dad though!

It’s a wee bit late to be asking permission when you’ve been sleeping together and, as we say in Ireland, living in sin for several years first. I’m pretty sure my df would have pointed out as much to dh if he’d been daft enough to ask.

Do men still ask the prospective father in law for 'permission'? If so it's clearly only done from a traditional point of view like white weddings but I can see how it perpetuates a concept that is out of step with modern society. I should say that a lot of men would probably happily be spared the pressure of having to be the one to propose. Society is changing - arguably slowly but yes, whilst it is a token gesture of an outmoded concept, it is one that in a sense does sum up the traditional imbalance in the relationship. I should think that it is a tradition that will be left to die out organically but will survive in some cultures.

Yeah, that was never going to happen in my life.

My Husband knew that if we got married, I wanted to be the one to propose... and I did.

I asked his Mothers permission... (she cried). I proposed to him on Boxing Day 2015, with an engagement ring (for him) in one hand and a pie in the other...... (Bribery as he's Northern... )

It worked! He said yes!

I wore black, I walked myself up the isle, the only speech was the one I gave as my Husband isn't keen on speaking in public and nor were either of our best men and..... both of us kept our surnames and titles.

Also, as it's only the Fathers occupation that goes onto the marriage certificate, we had both our Mothers as witnesses, so at least both our Mothers names were also on the certificate to make it as fair as possible.

We also had masses amounts of food, a free bar and said to the guests we didn't need presents as we got married 4 hours away from where we lived and we knew it was expensive to travel and get a hotel so their gift to us was their presence. If they wanted to gift us anything - we asked that donations go to British Heart Foundation or Cats protection.

So we tried to make it as non-patriarchal as possible and still enjoyable for our guests ....

I was talking to a colleague about it and he said 'Yeah, you might have proposed but I bet you still wanted an engagement ring?', to which I was like 'Nope..... he had an engagement ring, not me.... and my wedding ring cost £100 from eBay...."

We only got married 2.5 years ago, but so far, so good... He doesn't feel emasculated and we still share the cat chores 50/50

I didn’t wait - I just told him...

Do men still ask the prospective father in law for 'permission'?

Yes my friend's husband did this. He also did the horrible 'my wife and I' in his speech. So that's that - friend is no longer able to speak for herself becasue she has a husband?

The awful DJ also played Single Ladies and all the girls, who were not yet engaged but desperately wanted to be, drunkenly jiggled in a cringe worthy show for their boyfriends. I did shots at the bar while the bouquet was being thrown.

My brother in law did this (late 70s). We (another sister and I) were much younger - so as snotty kids we sat outside the study sniggering loudly and heckling.

None of our female friends "waited to be asked", if they had it on their minds, they asked, if their partners asked and they fancied it, they accepted.

Yes, I hate this. Complete rubbish.

It’s not normal any more to wait to be proposed to.
Most couples just discuss marriage and then do it jointly.
I think the proposals on Instagram and such are highly staged and preplanned events. It’s an illusion, not what is normal today.

I’m ‘waiting to be asked.’ 😊 Partner and I have talked lots about being married but he’s a lot younger than me so I’ve just told him to ask me when the time’s right. I’m in no real hurry but, cringily, I’ve realised I actually would like a nice thoughtful proposal!
In terms of the wedding, I’m fairly certain I’ll be doing the speech as DP loathes speaking in public! Happy to let my dad walk me down the aisle as I know he’s like that.

'Sold subject to contract' brilliant

I also hope my kids dont fall for marriage bullshit either boy or girl, and certainly dont think people should be spending thousands on a meringue dress they will wear once.

Perhaps I’m a bad feminist but I still want to be proposed to. However, it’d be something we’d discussed beforehand and shouldn’t be too much of a surprise. I’ve made it clear to my DP that I don’t want a public or staged proposal; I want it to be private to me and him.

I’m going through this with a friend at the moment who is somehow managing to drag her wedding celebrations out over 3 separate calendar years. She’s essentially spending her first time buyer house deposit on it - absolutely insane and made worse by the fact that her fiancé is an utter twat who had to be given an ultimatum to propose.

But some people still like this so surely its a personal choice
If your that close to someone they will know if a surprise proposal is what you might like, I know of a fair few women who have proposes to men as well
But if others choose to do it like this what business is it of anyone elses