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Original poster

AIBU? Waiting to be ‘proposed to’ is patriarchal, mysoginistic bullshit put on us by the system.

110 replies

Sparky888 · 21/12/2020 21:10

As adults, why are women expected to ‘wait until they are asked’ by the person they share their life with?

It’s a structure designed to keep women in their place (or any person wanting to progress with seriously long-term commitment).

What other structure as an adult requires us to wait until a another adult, who we share our life and plans with, to ‘ask us’?

How do we still accept this is as a normal-ish part of being an adult woman. ?

OP posts:
Musmerian · 22/12/2020 17:11

@Oliv5 - agree. I made a speech at my wedding and in retrospect I wish I hadn’t let my father speak at all.

mocktail · 22/12/2020 17:18

I completely agree, I hope it dies out. I'm embarrassed to admit I did wait (and wait) for DH to propose. And he did ask my dad's permission first (to my dad's bemusement!)

It should be a sensible, equal discussion, similar to discussing having a baby, which isn't done in such a ridiculous one-sided way.

AnnaMagnani · 22/12/2020 17:34

I wasn't going to have an engagement ring because it looked like an exchange of contract thing.

And then I saw an affordable one with a big fuck off stone and now I have a nice engagement ring Blush

even better most people think it's a ruby not a cheapo garnet

I have no principles.

yetanothernamitynamechange · 22/12/2020 17:38

Its complicated though. I think if men do genuinely want to get married/be with someone forever, they dont need to be pushed into proposing, coaxed into proposing or proposed to. I think most of the time they will just propose. So I dont think it is wrong necessarily to hold the expectation that the man will propose to the woman (although there may well have been discusisons about it before hand, both people would be on the same page in a healthy relationship). If a couple have been dating for 8 years with no whisper of a proposal from the man and the woman proposes it is likely to be a loooong engagement (and 22 year old feminist me would be shocked at my saying that. Im still a feminist I am just more cynical). But I agree with everything else you said. And no-one should be "waiting" to be proposed to for 10 years. I think the solution then is to leave, not to do the proposing yourself

yetanothernamitynamechange · 22/12/2020 17:40

@AnnaMagnani Off topic, but I think garnets are prettier than rubies anyway.

WhatKatyDidNxt · 22/12/2020 17:41

Haha lm a bad person to ask. I proposed to him, he said yes and the rest is history. Pandemic has prevented an actual wedding but it can’t go on forever

yetanothernamitynamechange · 22/12/2020 17:43

@Roberta268 I think your idea of a proposal (him proposing, but discussed before hand, and private to the two of you) sounds perfect actually so maybe Im a bad feminist too.

Plussizejumpsuit · 22/12/2020 17:46

Totally agree. Utterly bizzar to me!

BurtleTurtle · 22/12/2020 18:22

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request

AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken · 22/12/2020 18:29

YES!!!!!!
I 100% agree!
I told my (now) husband when we were dating that I didn't want a proposal foisted on me. I want to sit and have an adult conversation about a huge life decision.
Which is what we did.

Timeforatincture · 22/12/2020 19:22

30th wedding anniversary this year.

Proposal consisted of lying in bed, and he says to me " shall we get married?" and I say "OK good plan".

DS is married. His wife proposed. DS is a bit gormless, though very intellectual so a good plan on her part. They've been married 4 years.

DD1 is gay so all bets are off vis a vis proposals. Not sure what the protocol is for gay marriages. But I hope she does go in for it one day, not just because I'd love to see her happily partnered up, but I'd LOVE to attend a gay wedding.

DD2 lives with her bloke. He seems like a nice chap. And she has plenty of oomph so I hope she has the wit not to rely on him to decide how her life will pan out. When she moved in with him my only advice was not to get pregnant before they married.

GeorgiaMcGraw · 22/12/2020 19:42

Generally you have conversations about it before any proposal anyway, and it's up to you how you run your relationship. I think it should be the man proposing. It's a lovely, romantic thing and he is proving in some way to you that he wants to commit to you, that he is willing to kneel before you and that you are worth making an effort for. Most of the time men have it easier than women. They often earn more, they don't have to deal with periods, pregnancy etc, usually women end up doing the "life admin" stuff as well as working and so I think it's only fair they make one nice big gesture (at least). But really, to each their own.

AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken · 22/12/2020 19:50

@GeorgiaMcGraw

Generally you have conversations about it before any proposal anyway, and it's up to you how you run your relationship. I think it should be the man proposing. It's a lovely, romantic thing and he is proving in some way to you that he wants to commit to you, that he is willing to kneel before you and that you are worth making an effort for. Most of the time men have it easier than women. They often earn more, they don't have to deal with periods, pregnancy etc, usually women end up doing the "life admin" stuff as well as working and so I think it's only fair they make one nice big gesture (at least). But really, to each their own.
Men have it easier because they have freedom of choice and are the ones making the huge life decisions for themselves. Proposals are an extension of that power.
MixMatch · 22/12/2020 20:10

@GeorgiaMcGraw

Generally you have conversations about it before any proposal anyway, and it's up to you how you run your relationship. I think it should be the man proposing. It's a lovely, romantic thing and he is proving in some way to you that he wants to commit to you, that he is willing to kneel before you and that you are worth making an effort for. Most of the time men have it easier than women. They often earn more, they don't have to deal with periods, pregnancy etc, usually women end up doing the "life admin" stuff as well as working and so I think it's only fair they make one nice big gesture (at least). But really, to each their own.
I would discuss marriage with a boyfriend beforehand but I would expect the man to do the actually proposing. I think it's lovely and romantic too (as do many other women) and I have absolutely no shame in saying so. Don't get why a certain subset of women think they have absolutely authority to decide what should be 'feminist' for other women and what shouldn't be. They're no more a woman than I am!

The act of kneeling on the ground is itself a sign of submission to the woman. It's also a PROPOSAL i.e. the man is just proposing the possibility of marriage. It's the woman who holds the power to decide whether she actually wants to get married to him by choosing whether to say yes or not.

No one forces women to do anything. People are expending too much energy being angry on this thread over nothing. Confused

AgeLikeWine · 22/12/2020 20:14

YANBU.

It’s completely ridiculous and I have no idea why so many women still chose to buy into it. It does demonstrate, however, why we will never achieve equality with men.

Because too many women still don’t want equality.

MariaTia · 22/12/2020 20:17

Yes. The 'choice' is all with the men and the women are waiting there to be scooped up for which they can be ever so grateful

TrufflyPig · 22/12/2020 20:49

YANBU

But I'm ashamed and embarrassed that I waited (longer than I wanted to) for my proposal.

I wish I'd just said 'do you want to get married or not?' My life could have been very different if he'd said no though.

Anyway I don't want this BS for my daughters.

yetanothernamitynamechange · 22/12/2020 21:53

@MariaTia

Yes. The 'choice' is all with the men and the women are waiting there to be scooped up for which they can be ever so grateful
Its also really dumb because, statistically at least, marriage benefits men more than woman in terms of health and happiness anyway. Thats why it makes more sense for a man to be keen on committing than women. When they want to they are actually more keen. So if a man is dragging their feet when they know their partner of many years would like to get married they are just stringing them along.
FolkyFoxFace · 23/12/2020 00:48

Can't stand it either. We discussed marriage and I made my feelings clear. We wanted to start TTC a year on (we'd been together two years then) and I told him I'd need to be married for that. He did go out and get an engagement ring made, but then I got him an engagement ring too. The "proposal" was entirely expected and just a bit of fun as we both knew it was happening.

We also both double barreled our names. My name comes first. The wedding itself was definitely not a white wedding.

Original poster
Sparky888 · 23/12/2020 05:06

@mixmatch

But women don’t just ‘do it to themselves’ if the culture and system traces it to them whilst young and then re-inforces it. I don’t think people on the thread seem angry, more than the tradition seems out dated / ridiculous now, to some.

If a couple have already agreed to get married, a later public proposal is just a show for others - fine of course. Personally I consider them engaged when they have discussed and agreed.

I was asking about people (women), actually waiting for the proposal / discussion to be instigated by the man. It’s that waiting, not being ‘allowed’ to bring up the subject, which I object to in our culture.

OP posts:
occa · 23/12/2020 11:37

YANBU

This is one of the most repugnant patriarchal traditions that is still allowed or even encouraged to persist and puts the woman firmly in the subordinate role in the relationship from the get go,

Gives me the rage.

Sundance2741 · 23/12/2020 11:50

Can't believe women still do this. My DH and I have been married nearly 30 years. There was no "proposal" - we discussed it planned to tell our families, agreed a date and got on with it.

My teen daughters though have asked for the story of our proposal, so clearly the concept is still firmly out there.

I've always earned more than my DH but we treat our money as joint. I also had my own house when I met him - somethings that is harder for young people these days. But most of my girl friends back then had bought their own house / flat by late 20s.

Sundance2741 · 23/12/2020 11:54

In my view, young women are also much more focused on maintaining their gender role in terms of trying to look glamorous, wear lots of make up and doing generally 'girly' things than they ever were when I was young. Feels like we have gone back in time in a lot of ways. So guess that goes with waiting for the man to ask???

melisande99 · 23/12/2020 12:21

I think The Proposal (as a special event) has become a bigger deal because it's seen as a totally non-urgent frilly add-on. In times gone by, it was both a more businesslike but also a more meaningful question - "do you want to change your life completely, live with me and have my children - yes or no?". This might have been quite an urgent question if the man was making a big change to his life (like moving overseas) and wanted to know if he could take her with him!

Nowadays it's more like "here you go then, here's the little reward you've been wanting for having already done those things - Merry Christmas".

melisande99 · 23/12/2020 12:25

There's a "proposal story" I like in Thomas Hardy's "Under The Greenwood Tree", where a father is counselling his infatuated son.
"Ann,’ said I, as I was saying . . . ‘Ann,’ I said to her when I was oiling my working-day boots wi’ my head hanging down, ‘Woot hae me?’ ." Grin