Good enough to have children with but not marry

[Artandlove]

...ANYMORE!

Just that really.

Together 9 years, 2 children, in our mid 30’s. We’ve had a couple of really tough years which were brought about by situations out of our control. It all started after we’d got engaged. Many arguments on what to do and it took its toll on our relationship, family and both of our mental health.

Obviously I am hurt by what he has said, but I did push the matter because I felt this may have been the case. It has got me to thinking on whether or not my views on relationships and family are outdated. Things have been awful and continue to be hard because of an ongoing problem. I’ve always been of the opinion that you take the good and the bad in a long term and do not just throw the towel in. I guess in a way that if you are together for 60 years then you can’t expect all 60 to be good. I’ve never viewed him as disposable or replaceable and thought we would go the distance. The years previously were good and connected.

Sorry I’m rambling. So obviously I love him, he is the father of my children and I hadn’t seen a future different from us being together. Are my views outdated and what should I do from here? Feels a bit of a miserable and pointless relationship with no future now after him saying that. A step back. Do people get engaged and then no longer be engaged and still remain together? Does it make his word not mean anything now?

Any thoughts or advice?

He doesn't love you enough to fix things but expects you to continue to sacrifice your earning power in order to carry on making his life easier - so that he doesn't have to parent or do anything in the house. And so that he can see his kids every day but doesn't need to take on any of the responsiblity.

Then, at a time of his choosing, he can just up and leave and take whatever savings he has racked up during this time (and at least some of that money should have been yours if you had the same amounts of disposable income). And you have to pick up the pieces with the kids, find a job, move house etc - all on his timescale.

Given what he has said, your only option is to leave now and make a new life without him.

Actually if you have property that isn't connected to him marrying would fuck you more then your current situation so I wouldn't push for marriage

Wow, just seen your updates.

He wants all the convenience of an efficient housekeeper, but none of the long-time financial or emotional commitment of being married.

You're only in your mid 30's. Take your well-earned money, and go and build a life with somebody better.

OP you could look into your benefits e.g. UC and his contributions in terms of maintenance perhaps, things may not be as bad as you think given your property. Also about children going to him weekends or whatever.

maybe with a plan forward things won't seem so bad. (maintenance is on top of benefits by the way if that helps)

You need to start putting yourself into a better position. You're no longer a team, even if you don't split up immediately.

Of course he wants the current arrangement to continue. At the moment you're facilitating his life - that stops now. Your focus needs to be ensuring your life would be sustainable were you to leave.

Yes, you'll need to figure out how to get back to work. SAHM was never your idea - it was to make his life easier. Obviously that's no longer your primary consideration. And you can remind him that it's his choice that's forcing you back to work.

It doesn't matter if he doesn't want to do the school runs. The two of you will need to work out childcare that fits around you both having a job. And yes, that will be less convenient for him. Them's the breaks when you don't have someone doing all the wifework for you.

If he won't start to pull his weight with the chores, stop doing any chores for him. Again, he no longer has a wife to facilitate him.

Then what you do is leave him.

I could understand someone who is anti-marriage as an institution but who loves you and makes it clear he wants to be with you for the long run but does not think a marriage certificate is needed.

But someone who thinks you are 'not good enough' and are simply a convenient option for now until someone else comes along is not worth your time.

I'm so sorry OP, but he really is a selfish pig.

Fortunately you know the score now and knowledge is power.

You may love him but believe me he doesn't.

He's really spelt it out for you and that means he is absolutely available to have his head turned.

Take this time to help yourself and get organised.

You need to return to work.
You need to no longer make his life as comfortable.

I'm so sorry but you are being used until better comes along.

He is not a good man.

Great advice above, but you really have to put your big girls pance on and protect yourself.

He is not on your side in any shape or form.

Lots of truth in all of the posts above. I think that’s it all over now. So...

What can I do to get over this and quick? I have cried so much in the past couple of year than in my whole life! I don’t want to feel all the emotions of it all anymore, time to get out of the gutter? But how...anybody been here? What helped?

Artandlove

His words were extremely hurtful I just wouldn't be able to get past it.....then he sealed it by saying he doesn't want to work on things, but also doesn't want to separate.

Unless you're happy with his proposal, then it really is over. I don't know anyone who's be happy to stay after what he said.

He doesn't want the relationship to end, because you're useful to him at the moment. When the kids get older, he'll most likely end things and although its not on your mind right now, you'll be older and it's more difficult to find a new relationship.

In your position, I wouldn't mention the relationship at the minute and would look at the practicalities of separating.

Is there an OW? That would be my first thought, and reading the threads in Relationships shows that it's 99% the case.

If we just put the words he used aside for a minute, if a woman posted that her fiancee was pushing for a wedding date despite the fact that the relationship had been pretty miserable and stressful for the last couple of years, I think MN would be telling her not to commit.

So yep, I think you're being a little bit unrealistic to expect him to be gung ho for a wedding when you've been constantly arguing for so long.

No excuse for the wording of course. But I'm not sure why you're pushing to be tied to him to be honest. You're clearly not contentedly happy together.

If he says he thinks he may feel differently in the future isn't he really saying I don't love you enough to commit and I'll hang about until a better option presents itself to me?

What else could those words mean?
They certainly aren't I love you, but can we save for the wedding or a similar proposal.

@SandyY2K thank you for your input. I will start to look in to the practicalities. He said tonight that he does love me and would want to get married in the future if things got better but then also said it wasn’t working and has agreed to move out on Saturday! I doubt he will though, I think he is just saying he’ll move out to make me be quiet.

@Kalula No no other woman, I don’t have a suspicion of that. He appears to have enough trouble with me!

@saraclara Fair point.

@Enough4me yeah I agree.

Dickheads like this end up getting married within months for women they deem as marriage material. Don’t end up suffering through that. Just take your money and your share of everything and leave then get some legal advice for your kids maintenance

Yes, I've been through something similar. The sooner you get him gone, the sooner you can start to heal. Get some legal advice.
Gather your support people around you and when you feels like giving in, remember all the times he's made you cry. Know that there is better for you out there.

Hi OP, good luck with sorting out a better life for you and your children. I was trapped first by his push to get married, then his push to have children. Then he didn’t want to get divorced because he didn’t want me to take what was mine including my income. His outrage when he had to start doing his own clothes washing was funny. He died so there are no ongoing issues for various things but we are adjusting. These men are just users, and he had probably thought about what he said to you for a long time before that comment came out - a comment he thinks will make you try harder to keep him (such a prize he is) - I don’t think he’s your friend or on your side and it sounds like you are the only one that’s committed to the relationship. At least you’ve got the chance to reset your life while you are young and in your own timing. Once you are out of this situation and can reflect on the way you have been treated I think you’ll be happier and your children will feel the difference in having a happier mother.

And agree with others, start talking to your support network, I found it was surprising how many people thought I was wasting my time staying married because they didn’t like him as a person, something I was too blind to see because of all the manipulation.

So yep, I think you're being a little bit unrealistic to expect him to be gung ho for a wedding when you've been constantly arguing for so long.

Kind of this.

What he said was unforgivable, but at the same time, he was I suppose trying to be honest about how presumably after all these arguments, he didn't feel marriage was right. We don't really know enough about the arguments and how bad.

If he's told you hes moving out on Saturday then I would go with that. Make plans around it. If nothing happens then get on to him - "I thought you were moving out today? What's happening?"

Get him out ASAP. No sense in dragging it out. If you get really stuck financially then at least you have that property to fall back on.

Stick to his Saturday leaving date.
It is best if he moves out.
He is not in love with you.
He is using you.
He is not a good man.

You deserve better than this man using you until better comes along.

Get support IRL.
Tell family and friends he is moving out on Saturday and you need support.

SandyY2K thank you for your input. I will start to look in to the practicalities. He said tonight that he does love me and would want to get married in the future if things got better but then also said it wasn’t working and has agreed to move out on Saturday! I doubt he will though, I think he is just saying he’ll move out to make me be quiet.

You're welcome.

Saturday will be here quickly enough.
His words are congratulatory indeed and must leave you feeling confused.

On one hand he says he loves you, but then he doesn't actually want to take steps to improve things.

The prolonged stressful time you went through has put a heavy strain on the relationship for sure and it seems like getting it back on track isn't something he can realistically envisage.

Regardless of that, his words were very cutting.

One thing I would like to bring to his attention in your position, is to ask him how he would feel if you said he was good enough to be a dad, but not good enough to marry.

He had to know that the comment would be hurtful.

If he said, the past few years have been really difficult and you've been arguing a lot, so he's not so sure about marriage at the moment, that would be understandable, even if it isn't what you wanted to hear.

If he'd said, he wants to be in a happy place in the relationship before marriage, again that would make sense.

Perhaps the truth is that the stresses you've gone through have resulted in him falling out of love with you and he can't bring himself to say this, or perhaps he doesn't even know how to best articulate his feelings to you.

Hand on heart, do you really want to marry him?

OP can i recommend a book to you?
Is called Why Does He Do That
By Lundy Bancroft

OP I could have written your first post, other than that I'm not a SAHM. I'm currently making plans to leave my future-faking 'D'P in December, so not long to go now, thank goodness.

Since telling me that he does not want to marry me because in his words most recent excuse "I don't respect him", I've finally realised that it's not me, it's him. Over the past 5 years since we got engaged, I've heard a string of excuses as to why we can't get set a date to get married. Earlier this year (pre-COVID), his latest was that my sister and sister-in-law were both due babies, so the family would be too busy

I've finally had enough, but am in the fortunate position of earning twice what he does, so will be able to buy an equivalent property once we sell the jointly owned one.

If you are able to look for a job OP, I'd be making plans for you and the children to move into your other house, or sell it to buy one where you need to be.

The brutal truth about these types of men is that they stay in the relationship because it's convenient for them, they get everything they want and need for an easy life on tap, not because they love and adore you. I'd rather take my chances as a singleton, and if love comes along, then great. The thought of living like this with this useless lump for the rest of my life (Ice just turned 40), is too depressing to think about, so I'm getting out while I'm still young enough to do so.