Good enough to have children with but not marry

[Artandlove]

...ANYMORE!

Just that really.

Together 9 years, 2 children, in our mid 30’s. We’ve had a couple of really tough years which were brought about by situations out of our control. It all started after we’d got engaged. Many arguments on what to do and it took its toll on our relationship, family and both of our mental health.

Obviously I am hurt by what he has said, but I did push the matter because I felt this may have been the case. It has got me to thinking on whether or not my views on relationships and family are outdated. Things have been awful and continue to be hard because of an ongoing problem. I’ve always been of the opinion that you take the good and the bad in a long term and do not just throw the towel in. I guess in a way that if you are together for 60 years then you can’t expect all 60 to be good. I’ve never viewed him as disposable or replaceable and thought we would go the distance. The years previously were good and connected.

Sorry I’m rambling. So obviously I love him, he is the father of my children and I hadn’t seen a future different from us being together. Are my views outdated and what should I do from here? Feels a bit of a miserable and pointless relationship with no future now after him saying that. A step back. Do people get engaged and then no longer be engaged and still remain together? Does it make his word not mean anything now?

Any thoughts or advice?

Well you don't have to make any snap decisions. Does he know how upset you are?

If you haven't already, you should tell him exactly how he has made you feel.

Saying he might change his mind later would not be ok with me. I couldn't live like that - wondering if I'd ever be 'good enough'

I think perhaps you can give people fierce loyalty where they don’t deserve it, I’ve been guilty of in the past and have seen it with DD. I don’t think being too loyal is bad thing, it probably brings a lot of other decent qualities to your personality and you don’t want to lose that because of other people’s flaws but don’t waste it on the wrong person for them take advantage.

Be choosy in who is deserving of it and don’t neglect your own interests.

That was a really shitty thing of him to say and yes In your situation I would absolutely question the relationship.

Don’t do anything rash, weigh up your options, pros, cons and make a plan either way; is it worth saving to work at with/or without a view to marriage in the future or he might have gone too far and you LTB but obviously they’re not decisions to be taken lightly.

You must be hurt, it was a shitty thing to say. But why did you bring up marriage when you’re constantly having arguments?

@OhDearMuriel it wasn’t myself who said the shallow statement, somebody has written back further up the thread to your post.

Honestly? If you are views are outdated - as are mine - why didn't you stick to engagement, marriage and children in that order? It usually sorts out the men who are planning to stick around till the golden wedding! No good having traditional views if they're not reciprocated!

Your views aren't outdated, they are totally up to date!

I remember in the 80s and 90s there was a lot of talk about marriages being 'just a piece of paper' etc etc. This is bullshit for soooo many reasons. Culturally, legally and emotionally/psychologically marriage is incredibly important for everybody. Men (who all studies show benefit enormously from being married), women AND children.

This doesn't mean that everyone has to marry and it definitely does not mean that weddings have to be huge events (of course not, the size of wedding bears no relationship at all to the quality or longevity of a marriage). But, if you are going to have children then yes of course you should be married. Not for moral or religious reasons at all and not because it is 'respectable'. I have lived all my life in a totally secular world. My parents were not married and most of my friends are not either. So, I am not bring moralistic or old fashioned but simply enlightened and tuned in to psychology. People are happier and live more stable lives if they are married. Not because of god, custom or morality but because of the law and emotions.

No need to feel old fashioned or apologetic OP. You are absolutely right.

On the bright side, you own half the current house and another property, you have been out of the job market for a few years, but I have a feeling you will be able to get back in again and then work your way up.

Whatever you do, don't marry him now!

That's rubbish
You need to take back some control
Decide what you want and go all out for that
Good luck x

It’s shitty to hear that’s for sure. But you admit that your relationship is tough at the moment. You call him weak. Who would want to be planning a wedding and getting married when their relationship is at its lowest point? It would be a weird thing to do. You say you want to marry him, but do
You right now? Would you marry him
Next week (if he hadn’t said this)? Or
Would you rather wait to get through this tough period?

In a way, it could be handy if you split that you are not married - depends if your house is worth more than a share of his pension would be. He can't have any claim to your house but you are entitled to half the value of your current home, plus child support off him.
I think if I were you I'd be looking for work first, whether or not you stay together, it's never a good idea to be a SAHM when not married. Of course, once working, he can be expected to step up with housework & childcare. Whatever happens, it's prudent for you to make changes in your life right now. Who knows, you may get on better with the changes, and you are not alone, not many Mums have the ability to chose to stay at home even if they'd like to.

@MrJollyLivesNextDoor

I'd be removing my engagement ring and informing him of his impending departure from my life.

This ^

Haven't RTFT but he sounds like a complete wanker to say such a thing. Why are you asking if your views on marriage are outdated? They're not. Marriage has all sorts of financial protections and benefits. Sorry OP but it seems like you need to get rid of him.

I'd have thrown his shit on the front lawn for a show the neighbors would never forget for that remark

Thank you all for the replies, advice and helping me to see I am not out of order to be upset about this. I went to bed last night with such a sore head thinking about it all. It’s made me question all of my ideas on relationships, family, my decisions the past few years that have put me here in this vulnerable position (I should’ve been thinking with my head and not my heart!) and on wondering whether I am actually the problem here. But the answer is I am here to make his life easier but not good enough for him to marry, and there it is. He is not committed to our relationship and family but here with me so he doesn’t have to dissolve our life we built together and he gets to still live with his children.

For the questions about why would I mention marriage at this difficult time. I guess to bring something positive out of these rough years, to come out the other end having been through the worst of it but still together, going strong and we made it through thick and thin. I didn’t think these times would’ve changed our overall outcome of the relationship and in turn our family unit. I think things happen in life good and the bad, now bad things have happened and he throws the towel in on his commitments to me. It makes his word have no meaning.

I would suggest thinking about what you really want for the long term. No rash decisions but can you see yourself together in 20 years time? You admit to a tough couple of years but think about before... we can all fall in love but staying in love and enjoying a lifetime together is not as easy. Be truthful to yourself and don't let him dictate your life

Wow. My heart would break if my partner said that. We've been together 7 years with no plans of marriage for another four or five but my God, I know he wants to marry me eventually. That's disgusting.

I was in a similar position not so long ago. I'm in a country which has co habitation laws but I still would have been screwed if we broke up (he is worth millions and I made most of it for him but it was all in his name)

He said the same thing in not so many words, things not great, not a good idea to formalize things (when we were 18 years and two kids later)
What I found was the power balance shifted so much once he realized I wanted to get married and also realized how vulnerable I had left myself
I was lucky though as while his head had been turned he didn't want to break up (at that time) and I was still "valuable" in work
I had to bite my tongue and play as nice as pie but we did get married about 9 months later. He treated me appallingly during that time as he knew I couldn't do anything about it. Now we are on an equal footing things are actually great, but I will never forgive him and if he ever does anything like that again I am gone, with half if not more of his millions and he knows it.
I was older than you too, you are still young enough to start again. I know it is not just as easy as to just leave but you need to get a job and start saving. He has all the power now, you need to take some back.

@workshy44 Have you any regrets? Would you do the same thing again if you could go back? What would you recommend I do at this point from your experience and what you went through with this?

I would but I did it mainly for financial reasons. That being said I did love him and wanted to stay together. It was one of the toughest things I have ever done and I used to wear the ear off my sister and friends as I had to bite my tongue so much it had to come out somewhere!
It really depends on your situation. Mine was he was worth a lot and I had made a huge amount of it for him. I would have received about a 3rd in a split plus I am sure he would have tried to ring fence things. Also I was almost 10 years older than you so the thought of starting over was less appealing. I have also made mistakes in the relationship so wasn't blameless and did feel there were things I could do on my side to improve things.
If you are better off financially not being married I would personally cut my losses if I was you. You are young enough to start again and based on what he has said, you are in serious danger of being left anyway. Probably when you are older and , out of work longer which will make things so much more difficult. You don't have too much time to waste I think

@workshy44 Thank you for sharing your experience of this and the advice. I don’t really know where I’m at financially right now until I see what I can get job wise. Certainly will be a lot less than before I had my children. Was the main thing that changed it you keeping quiet and venting your frustrations with him elsewhere? Or were there any other things you did that brought about a significant change? Last night I was upset but I feel more angry about it today.

Marriage is one of those things that you have to be certain you are doing the right thing and it's what you really want, IMHO. Something that has prompoted his caution, you mention a tough few years and arguments. Ultimately you can't force him so it seems you are at a crossroads and the ball is in your court.

You mention you won a property as well think this good as you could maybe live in it perhaps if needed - maybe it is a good escape

Very true, I think the decision on what to do is made even more difficult that it isn’t what I want. It sort of seems to me he is sitting on the fence and isn’t committed to me.

Op part of the problem is that he is treating you like you are married in being willing to accept you being a SAHM and all the benefits that gives him. His career has blossomed. Yours has suffered. He doesn’t have to pay for child care.
I don’t know how your finances are organised or how you share household chores but I’m guessing that he has more disposable income than you and doesn’t pull his weight round the house
Even if you stay together those things need fixing. The best thing for your kids is a mum who is not vulnerable financially and who can support them if their dad decides not to. Get back into the workforce ASAP

For me it would be simple. 'You are good enough for kids but not to marry' ? Ok .. 'you are good enough a provider but not good enough to get to live the life of a married man with all the convenience that offers to your career and children' .. 'without the legal contract - bye now !'

His things would be in bin bags on the door step.. until you find your own place. Buy him out /or come to an arrangement.

You need to get on the front foot OP.. no more 'house wife convenience'.. he does his own washing/cooking/shopping .. HALF the child care. (Go out ( once Covid lifts) 3 nights a week. He can do supper/bath/bedtime.. after all you are not 'good enough' for wifely duties - do what are you ? The unpaid nanny.. knock off at 6pm then when it's 'his' time..

No such thing as a free lunch. !