Good enough to have children with but not marry

[Artandlove]

...ANYMORE!

Just that really.

Together 9 years, 2 children, in our mid 30’s. We’ve had a couple of really tough years which were brought about by situations out of our control. It all started after we’d got engaged. Many arguments on what to do and it took its toll on our relationship, family and both of our mental health.

Obviously I am hurt by what he has said, but I did push the matter because I felt this may have been the case. It has got me to thinking on whether or not my views on relationships and family are outdated. Things have been awful and continue to be hard because of an ongoing problem. I’ve always been of the opinion that you take the good and the bad in a long term and do not just throw the towel in. I guess in a way that if you are together for 60 years then you can’t expect all 60 to be good. I’ve never viewed him as disposable or replaceable and thought we would go the distance. The years previously were good and connected.

Sorry I’m rambling. So obviously I love him, he is the father of my children and I hadn’t seen a future different from us being together. Are my views outdated and what should I do from here? Feels a bit of a miserable and pointless relationship with no future now after him saying that. A step back. Do people get engaged and then no longer be engaged and still remain together? Does it make his word not mean anything now?

Any thoughts or advice?

OP you said that you "pushed the matter", you have been brooding on the state of your relationship all day? He has had a stressful day and probably did not want to address any further problems?
Do you think he actually meant it or was just trying to shut down the conversation because it was a subject he didn't have the energy or the mind space for it at present??

I agree with your tack @Onthedunes

He's not on your team anymore OP. Why should you be on his?

@PlanDeRaccordement

I don’t think your views are outdated at all. Marriage confers legal rights and protections for you and your children. It also is a commitment you make to each other, that you’re going to give best shot at that 60yrs together. So yes, I’d be really hurt too and feel like I’d been led down the garden path with a promise of marriage. If this is a deal breaker for you, I would completely understand. It would be for me.

This is why marriage should come before children. He lied to you. He is not committed to you and to your family. Marriage is more than a ceremony and a piece of paper. Marriage is the commitment that gets you through the bad times. If it were me, I would be leaving (or packing his stuff and setting it out) and setting an example for my children. As Dorothy Sayers said "I don't want marriage as some kind of 'good conduct prize'."

Thank you for all of the replies to my post, there had been a lot more by the time I’d written back to some of them.

@VettiyaIruken funnily enough he didn’t give much back about the not good enough part. Only kept mentioning the arguments.

@FifteenToes he doesn’t have the best views on marriage after his parents divorce many years ago but yes I do think he is still pro marriage. When he asked me to marry him I hadn’t expected it or wasn’t dropping hint of anything like that. So it more likely to be a me thing than an anti marriage situation.

@Crazycrazylady no thank you for your honesty. Maybe it is a relationship breakdown that will just end and I should start thinking of it this way.

@Shoxfordian I think I am trying to get my head around a complete different scenario for my life ahead. On the plus side a least I will be rid of the MIL! Every cloud.

That’s a really hurtful thing to say to anyone, especially someone you are still in a relationship with.

I didn’t get married to my DH until after the DC came along. I actually didn’t want to but realised I was financially vulnerable (I’m a SAHP) and I thought my DC would feel security of a mum and dad being married. A unit.

I’m not sure what to advise. I appreciate his honesty but I don’t know if I would still want to be with him. Like I said, that’s pretty hurtful.

Your views are definitely not outdated, you sound very loyal.

I know what you mean about some people chucking the towel in and being disposable. Society sometimes comes across very disposable with relationships, see it with pets too (a bit off topic).

because of all of the arguments on something (not a family dispute thing). I think he’s been been far too soft/weak and I would have dealt with it differently

Maybe he dealt with it the way he felt best, is fed up of you telling him he did it wrong, fed up of the arguing and it’s made him view you differently and changed how he feels?
My DH is too soft & tells me I go on too much. It causes a lot of our arguments tbh.

@KarmaNoMore You are right I need to address now the vulnerable situation I have got myself in to. He could very well be waiting until somebody else comes along before jumping ship and also the falling out of love with me part as well.

@IseeIsee yes it has been building up. I didn’t realise the situation was so hopeless of a future together. Has got me wondering as well if I had kept my mouth shut or told him what he wanted to hear if it would be different now because we wouldn’t have had all off the arguments.

If you've been arguing a lot than that is obviously the reason why his view might have changed? You said yourself things have been "awful"

I don't get why people agree to have children first on the promise that a marriage will come at some point in the future and then are surprised/upset when it doesn't happen

I made it clear to now DH I loved him enough to marry him but I didn't love him enough to stay with him and never be married . Being Married before kids was important to me and I wasn't prepared to compromise.

I guess you've got one of two options - you stay together and come to terms with the fact you'll likely never be married. Or you end the relationship - but it may appear a bit shallow to end a relationship purely on the basis that he wouldn't marry you especially when you've already had children? Bit like closing the stable door when the horses have already bolted I'm afraid

He's done you a favour: he's told you what he thinks about you. He's told you he's there because of the DCs, not you, essentially.

So what are you going to do?

Personally, I'd be telling him to get the hell out.

One good thing about not being married is that you cannot have a MIL.

Jeeeesus, OP. How much more of a kicking are you willing to hang around for?

@Onthedunes should I stop doing that stuff from now? @nowishtofly I totally agree he is not on my team and I have been on his throughout all of his daft decisions.

@HazelBite I believe he meant it.

@Stinkerbells is it possible to be be too loyal? I agree about the pets.

@Runningoutofnamestochange yeah he did deal with it the best way he knew how. It could be that he has changed how he feels about me because if this. But then I think he has put us through so much and I’m not saying I wouldn’t marry him because of it. It should be the other way round!

......"but it may appear a bit shallow to end a relationship purely on the basis that he wouldn't marry you especially when you've already had children? Bit like closing the stable door when the horses have already bolted I'm afraid."

@ivfbeenbusy
There is nothing 'SHALLOW' about wanting to leave a relationship if you are told you are "good enough to have children with but not marry anymore."

Can you really not see how adversely that will affect her relationship with this man??

If not married
If possible get a job (Covid allowing)
You both pay half for all children's things including childcare
Protect yourself

My grandmother would say something about free milk and cows.... yes you love him, but do you love him more than you respect yourself? LTB.

@ivfbeenbusy the horses are a good way to describe it, I agree that is what it is like now. So do I continue on not married etc or put myself before the kids and move us? I think he knows I always put the kids before myself, he’s always said I am too good a Mum. I have to admit I wasn’t bothered about marriage all those years ago and it’s only after the kids for the family unit, names the same and obviously I love him as well. I actually thought doing a wedding during Covid times would keep it small (costs down because it’s hard to justify the expensive of a wedding when you’ve children) and about the vows.

@justconcedealready and @VodselForDinner I don’t know what to do for the best.

@OhDearMuriel

I used the term shallow purely on the basis that clearly the relationship has been under immense pressure and strain for a reason not connected to getting married and yet this is the one thing the OP is focussing on?. OP doesn't like how he's handled what's has happened and clearly it's changed how he thinks about her. OP is hung up On the fact he now says he doesn't want to marry her when they should be focussed on fixing what's gone wrong lately between the two of them before even considering if marriage might be on cards in the future

First of all what’s your position with your house / home
Do you rent or is it a mortgage
If it’s a mortgage Is it joint or just in his name
Men like him generally know exactly what marriage means and will rarely get a mortgage if it means you can walk away with half of it if you divorce

@Artandlove

Well that's up to you? Do you even want to try and fix what's gone wrong or are you too fixated on the marriage issue now? I don't thinks it's putting your children first if you break up your family purely because he says he doesn't want to get married? Take the marriage issue out of it - Leave the relationship because it's been "awful" or you don't love him
Or because he's a crap partner? As much of an advocate for marriage as I am a piece of paper giving you all the same name isn't going to fix this? You say you want a "family unit" well that means you have to put on a united front when it comes to dealing with whatever this issue is that's come between you?

OP you say you would be putting yourself before the kids if you don't continue the relationship. Kids don't always do well when in a home with parents who aren't committed to each other or with an unhappy mum. He has thrown a bomb into your relationship- I suspect this will eat away at you, can't do much for your self esteem over time.

It's a tricky one.

On the one hand it seems a cruel and twatty thing to say.

On the other hand if the past few years have been difficult with a lot of arguing, I can see why he'd think it might not be the most sensible time to get married.

Could you do something like: tell him you love him and want to be married to him and be a family but you're not prepared to stay unmarried forever. Then perhaps agree to put the marriage thing on hold for an agreed time, and not talk about it, to take the pressure off you both. Then you both work on your relationship and try to make a go of it. After the agreed time you either decide to marry or split. Would that work?

If he says no I never want to marry you, that's different.

Agree with all the other suggestions about getting things in order for your & your dc security in case you do split. Good luck.

@AeroFlakeTw1rl you are right I need to protect myself.

@im5050 it is a mortgage with joint ownership. If we were to split up then I would want to move out, I don’t think I could wait for it to sell and see our life together dissolving. Even though it sort of feels that way after tonight!

@ivfbeenbusy well he kept trying to blend the marriage issue with the current ongoing problem but for me they are separate (I felt he was using it as an excuse that’s why I pushed as well). I do love him and would want to fix it but it appears he doesn’t want to. I’m annoyed because his issue has put us through hell and now it’s like I’m being punished for it. Couldn’t make it up!

@Artandlove
Thank you for your explanation, however it has absolutely nothing to do with your original 'shallow' statement.

@nowishtofly I think it will eat away at me yes.

@DisappearingGirl that’s a good and logical suggestion but I don’t know. I guess it can’t be unsaid and I could stick around and have the same answer down the line or worse. It’s so hurtful and disrespectful.