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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Teenage daughter - cold, uncaring, uncommunicative, rude. At my wits end.

108 replies

Madlollyoftheshire · 04/11/2020 20:39

That’s about it really, I just don’t know how to deal/help her and it’s killing me. Would so appreciate any wise words or positive suggestIons from anyone who has experience of this, as it feels like we have lost our daughter.

My partner of 22 years and I have 2 daughters: our eldest is 19 and is kind, empathetic, sociable and sensitive. She has had her fair share of issues (struggled at school with severe dyslexia, skin surgery, boyfriend problems) but has got on with life and always been open with me and her dad and generally we all get on extremely well. However, our
youngest, who is 15, is the opposite and each of us has always found her challenging to be around, even from when she was little. She is incredibly strong-willed, in fact we “joke” that she would make good SAS material, as nothing phases her, she never cracks, ie, never backs down or apologies if she had upset anyone or been rude and if she’s not happy about something, even something as minor as one of us trying to start a conversation with her, she reacts immediately, usually by storming off and going incommunicado for long periods (even days) until one of us, usually me, apologises for upsetting her - even if I don’t know how it happened. I realise teenagers can be sullen, uncommunicative and difficult, but this is a whole other level - she hardly talks to any of us, won’t smile or spend any time AT ALL with any of us and spends all her time in her bedroom, including mealtimes. Despite my many attempts, car journeys are silent, as she will not engage. She refuses to eat with us, taking food to her room instead and rarely comes out to eat at restaurants with us - if she does, she won’t talk to us, just sits looking miserable. She borrows clothes and makeup from her sister without asking, and literally throws them back in her room without a word afterwards. Her sister says she hates her, and insists she really does as “M is a vile human being” and has given up trying to be nice to her anymore. My partner and I are still trying, but it is so hard to make the effort to even communicate with her, as we get so Very little back, usually negative. The only time’s she will make any effort Is when she wants us to buy something for her, then as soon as she has it, it is like a switch has flicked and she is back to her usual uncommunicative self - it’s so predictable! I do it because its the only time she seems to want Anything to do with me! Im also very concerned that she can be unkind and lack compassion - she says hurtful things about people/children/animals she finds ugly or annoying, including that she would like to slap/kick them, and seems unmoved when other people or animals are distressed. I find this really upsetting. Holidays are a waste of time and money, as she still won’t talk to us and stays in her room. She seems to think so little of her family that I would not be surprised if one day she just leaves home and we never see or hear from her again! I am so sad about it all.

She does have a few friends, seems happy at school and is doing OK academically, not great, but ok. She has no hobbies or interests, and believe me, we have tried so hard on that front. She spent virtually the whole of lockdown In her room alone. Her sister thinks she’s narcissistic or autistic....I just don’t know what to think.

On the rare occasions she has opened up to me she says ‘I’m OK, just Leave me alone”.

The advice we have had (from friends mainly - she refuses to see a counsellor), so far Is to leave her alone and wait for her to “come out the other side”, but she’s been like this for about 6 years, and I’m now seriously doubting she will Ever change and leaving her to it feels like I’m failing her - you just want your children to be happy, and kind, don’t you?

Can anyone offer any advice please - is this really how she will end up, because it’s a very depressing prospect?

Thank you to anyone who has read all this and has anything positive to offer.

OP posts:
Hesfamousforit · 04/11/2020 21:00

I was a nightmare teen..... Turned in a thoughtful caring person Smile
Sorry not got any advice though. I was just left to get on with it.

Weejo39 · 04/11/2020 21:04

She may well be autistic. It presents quite differently in girls. mindsandhearts.net/gq-asc-girls-questionnaire-for-autism-spectrum-conditions/
The above questionnaire is tailored to girls on the spectrum, Jane a look and see if you can see your daughter in this.

CoffeeBeansGalore · 04/11/2020 21:24

House rules & boundaries? Yes most teenagers are obnoxious at times, but this should not be the default.

  1. She should not be using her sister's stuff without permission.
  2. She does not eat meals in her room. Even if she is ignoring everyone whilst eating with you.
  3. Set chores. Clearing the table/washing up or loading dishwasher/drying up. Tidying her room/ changing her bedding every weekend. Simple, easy, non negotiable tasks. Regardless of any huffing, eye rolling, "it's not fair". She lives in the house & benefits from it all. Consequences of refusal set out from the start on a sliding scale. No wifi, deduct pocket money, etc. And Stick To It. If needs be start removing things from her room, phone, TV, netflix, other tech.
When she behaves like a pleasant human being she starts getting her stuff back. Do not give in to tantrums, threats. And remove it if she's horrible again. Yes she will hate it, probably say she hates you, her life etc. But stay with your boundaries. She can be nice, time it happened more often than not.
Otterhound · 04/11/2020 21:40

I’ve read loads of times that basic character traits are set by the age of 4 or so. You say she has always been difficult so sadly chances are she always will be and teenage years just intensify this.

I’m not sure what you can do really bar hope she comes out the other side

BluebellsGreenbells · 04/11/2020 21:46

She does sound like she has autistic traits.

Do you say to her ‘what you mean is ... ‘ and rephrase her rudeness.

Byallmeans · 04/11/2020 22:01

Honestly I could have posted this about my niece and I’ve often wondered if she was on the autistic spectrum. She’s fine now and has a little family of her own but keeps herself to herself.

My other thought was could something traumatic have happened to your dd when she was younger?

Also - set your boundaries. It might be a bumpy ride but keep them in place as it will benefit you as a house hold long term.

My eldest is 26 and between 15-19 we were constantly at loggerheads. You need to put in your boundaries for your own sanity!

ChestnutSquash · 04/11/2020 22:05

At least put a lock on your older dd's door. She deserves privacy and not to have her belongings taken.

Madlollyoftheshire · 04/11/2020 22:11

Thank you all for your comments. CoffeeBeansGalore - i appreciate your advice, and we have certainly tried all of those things over the years, and star charts etc, with occasional, short-term success, however, the underlying issue of her simply not wanting to engage with her family And the worrying uncaring attitude remain. The negative consequences like confiscating tech etc just don’t help with that. Positive “carrots” work Only until the carrot is received. We cannot make her eat with us - she will choose to either get up during the night When we are asleep to eat, or just not eat at all. She is extremely thin as it is. She doesn’t do tantrums or threats anymore, just cold, hard silence and acting as if we don’t exist. She does not give in - ever!

OP posts:
ChestnutSquash · 04/11/2020 22:15

Have you talked to her teachers?
The eating issues would worry me a lot.

heartlikepaper · 04/11/2020 22:16

I empathise so much, it is so tough to parent a very stubborn seemingly uncaring child. Especially when DD1 gave quite an easy time in comparison. It creates an awful atmosphere for everyone else and is like walking on eggshells I know. I dont really have any suggestions, my DD2 did go to therapy and its helping a bit, but she had associated symptoms that bothered her so thats her motivation to go, rather than a desire to be a better person for us! One thing I will say, is try and connect with her at her level, at moments when she is relatively calm. Remind her you are still there as a loving supportive parent even though she may feel that you arent. Sometimes the slightest thing, an offhand comment or bad mood gets into their heads as a massive thing so its always good to say out loud to them that you love them :) even if they cringe!!

billy1966 · 04/11/2020 22:17

The fact that she is only pleasant when she is looking for something would indicate a high level of control.

You have been tolerating appalling behaviour for a long time.

Personally, I just wouldn't accept it and would have given her a dose of @CoffeeBeansGalore's boot camp.

She has been allowed to behave in an extremely selfish disrespectful manner.

OP, I appreciate you are trying to do your best but it sounds like you are desperate for her friendship.

Screw that.
She needs parenting.

She has soured your home with her selfishness.

Give her a dose of removing her favourite stuff so she gets a sense of how much it offends her sister.

Your 19 year old has every reason to be very pissed off that you have allowed her to dominate her home.

She needs consequences.
Badly.

Good luck.Flowers

Madlollyoftheshire · 04/11/2020 22:17

Chestnutsquash, yes, the lock will have to happen.
BluebellsGreenbells - the rudeness is usually one liners (that’s about as much as she speaks) along the lines of swear words or insults, followed by “whatever” when pulled up on what she says. It’s just unpleasant, exhausting, depressing and constant. Sorry...I’m on a bit of a downer about it!

OP posts:
pallasathena · 04/11/2020 22:37

Try mirroring.
If she's rude, snarl back at her and walk off.
Put a lock on other daughter's door and don't explain yourself.
If she's ignoring you, ignore her back.
it's a 'people', thing OP, not an 'Oh, she's just a teenager....'..thing.
When you mirror this type of behaviour you're reflecting it back to the other person. It can be effective. It can work if you're prepared to keep it up and go the distance without giving in, apologising or trying to keep the peace...but you have to be very tough and very focused.
Never complain and never explain until you get to the point where she wants to talk to you about how sh'e feeling.
Flowers

FunTimes2020 · 04/11/2020 22:40

What is she like with other relatives e.g.grandparents?

Choconuttolata · 04/11/2020 22:51

I was going to say try ignoring her too, especially when she wants something. If she can't talk to you respectfully then better she doesn't talk to you at all and definitely no giving anything other than the minimum provision of clothing, food etc.. until she realises that she only has those nicer things because you provide them and if she doesn't pull her weight then why should you give her those things. Set your expectations of how you want to be treated and stick to them, I bet she doesn't get away with talking to her teachers that way.

Spreadingchestnut · 04/11/2020 22:56

I'm no expert op but fwiw I think the never giving in and the never apologising is a bit unusual tbh. The teen girls I know (mine and friends) will have their moments and be very up and down (mine can be v argumentative and stubborn too) but they will apologise eventually. Mine took three days to apologise once! But they do have times when they soften and join in fami!y life. It's quite unusual not to need any family interaction at all I think. As the pp said, it might be worth contacting Autism UK for advice. Or Young Minds? Or www.beateatingdisorders.org.uk/.

The worry here is that she is trying to distance you and is being secretive because of an eating disorder. As I understand it, they can be all-consuming once they take hold and teen girls can be very rigid and have an iron will when it comes to depriving themselves from food. Maybe try and tackle that one thing and insist that she joins you for a family meal at least three or four times a week and for Sunday lunch? If she refuses you might need to restrict her access to food during the night but I've no idea if that's the right strategy or not tbh. This organisation may be able to help: www.beateatingdisorders.org.uk/

In normal times, I think I would force her out of her comfort zone and take her away for a weekend with me, one-on-one. Go somewhere totally unrelated to your home life and school. Go horse-riding, sailing, rock climbing? Tell her you are interested in her life and what she wants to do in the future. Make sure the journey is at least a couple of hours long to give you an opportunity to talk (side by side not facing one another). It will be extremely difficult to arrange this sort of thing under lockdown though. Current circumstances are extremely challenging for teens and parents. Flowers

Spreadingchestnut · 04/11/2020 22:58

Sorry repeated the same link by mistake there.

Madlollyoftheshire · 04/11/2020 23:00

Thank you everyone, I am taking on board what is being said. Looks like boundaries, or lack of, may be an issue....but not sure how to apply that to the silent treatment or lack of compassion from her - she really doesn’t want anything to do with us, how do we deal with that? Her teachers, all of them (!), say she’s a model pupil, one went as far as saying “I wish all my pupils were like M”! I was astounded. She seems to reserve her cold, silent treatment purely for home. We have no family nearby and only 1 grandad left - she’s quiet with them but, thankfully, not rude.

@pallasathena - will try mirroring, thank you....it’s just that there’s not much to mirror, unless I repeat her swear words and insults back to her 😏 - seriously though, I will try anything!

OP posts:
PineappleUpsideDownCake · 04/11/2020 23:03

Gosh. If she's autistic or has an eating disorder the last thing she needs from you in being more harsh with her. She will already know you don't like her.

Sounds to me like she needs support.

Branleuse · 04/11/2020 23:04

Potentially autistic. Worth investigating

PineappleUpsideDownCake · 04/11/2020 23:07

She sounds like she's completely shut down and hurting. I'd be very careful.

I'd imagine she needs to be loved and understood and accepted.

Have school said anything? Is she very underweight? Can you tell school you're worried about her.

Im likely autistic with an eating disorder. My parents were nasty.

RoseGold7 · 04/11/2020 23:07

@Madlollyoftheshire

Thank you all for your comments. CoffeeBeansGalore - i appreciate your advice, and we have certainly tried all of those things over the years, and star charts etc, with occasional, short-term success, however, the underlying issue of her simply not wanting to engage with her family And the worrying uncaring attitude remain. The negative consequences like confiscating tech etc just don’t help with that. Positive “carrots” work Only until the carrot is received. We cannot make her eat with us - she will choose to either get up during the night When we are asleep to eat, or just not eat at all. She is extremely thin as it is. She doesn’t do tantrums or threats anymore, just cold, hard silence and acting as if we don’t exist. She does not give in - ever!
Is something upsetting her? Maybe (in her head) she feels that no one at home pays attention to her interests and thoughts. This behaviour as well as avoiding eating may be a cry for help. If she’s really thin and not eating regularly (and avoiding eating as a family) then please seek advice from CAMHS eating disorder team. Good luck Flowers
Sweetchillijam · 04/11/2020 23:11

This sounds very like my DD 15 and I have similar concerns re autism. She has been like this for the last year she was lovely say six years ago. Only she has a brother so doesn’t pinch his clothes. But used to take things of mine without asking they would get lost in her pigsty of a room and she would snarl and deny she had them etc. I had to lock the door as she put DH’s good jeans in the bin and put a whole load of my clean dry ironed clothes in the dirty wash basket in revenge as she was annoyed I had picked some sodden wet towels up from her bedroom floor. She doesn’t eat meals in her room as I won’t allow it but she doesn’t speak at the table unless to snarl and eats quickly. She squirrels snacks up to her bedroom and leaves used yogurt pots lying around etc. She calls me by my christian name and calls me darling in a sarcastic nasty voice which really winds me up. Again she is doing okish at school and has friends. But DS a year older is quite chatty and can hold a conversation at the table and has quite a lot in common with DH now (at the table at home or in a restaurant on holiday). I am just left in silence with DD or have snide comments etc. Like you op it was like she had moved out to her bedroom bedsit during lockdown and its like she has already checked out of family life and I am sure she would be off and move out in a heart beat if she could without a second glance. She has been slightly better recently I think school is stressful for them and she takes that out on me but also her hormones have a major affect on her mood too.

RoseGold7 · 04/11/2020 23:11

Also to add to my last comment, please stop being harsh towards her and only focusing on her negative behaviour. She needs compassion right now, someone who is willing to be patient and offer support. It really sounds like she has anorexia. Avoiding eating around people and withdrawing from social situations are major signs for eating disorders. Alarm bells are ringing.

PineappleUpsideDownCake · 04/11/2020 23:11

The bookn"can you see me" by libby scott is an easy read and is fantastic for understanding what is going on when it looks like an autistic girl is being rude or stubborn or hiding. I recommend it to everyone.

But also second importance of help for eating disorder asap.

I am worried that you appear to hate her rather than be concerned for how to love her.