Ignored after confronting upsetting behaviour

[Realitea]

SIL launched into a big tirade at dh the other night which really upset us both. It’s not the first time either. The problem she has this time is that by ‘sticking to the rules’ (regarding Covid) we’re damaging our dd’s education. (Dd recently had Covid symptoms so couldn’t go to school until test came back clear)
There is a lot of background to this and we’ve had accusations before for many things that don’t make sense/aren’t true.
I decided to finally stand up to her and sent a message which was polite but firm, it said I do not tolerate this kind of behaviour and we are good parents doing the best for our dc.
It went completely ignored. We next got a message changing the subject, no reference to what I said. Now I feel even more hurt that what I said has just been ignored, I was expecting an apology really. Now I feel that to them, I’m not even worth acknowledging. At least I had my say. How would others take this?

If you want a relationship I'd take it that she's taken notice and backed off. That for me would be as good as an apology.

Would you have tolerated this from a friend?.

Your SIL has form for such behaviour anyway and people like this too never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions. Some people too like nothing more than having the last word and your text message gave her that opportunity to further put the boot in. The "normal" rules of familial interactions really do go out the window when it comes to toxic relations.

Your H is also key here; what does he think of his sister's behaviour?. Or is he the sort who says, "well you know what she is like?".

I would really have nothing further to do with her going forward.

Don't respond to any further messages from her. Don't give her anymore information to attack you with. Don't spend time with her. Don't bother listening to her or pay any attention to her.

If she wasn't attacking you over your perfectly reasonable behaviour, she would have found something else. Bullies bully people they think won't stand up to them.

If she brings up your inattention, remind her she owes you an apology for her abusive behaviour and you won't be treated like that. Then ignore.

Thank you for the replies, this is exactly what I’ll do.

Unfortunately I have had lots of experience with this sort of behaviour from my SIL in the past. Combination of an opinionated, dominating personality and unexpected aggressive outbursts caused by her drinking. I always got the impression she thought she was better than the rest of us, could do no wrong and was entitled to give unwanted criticism when she felt like it. The last straw was when she set up a secret meeting between my estranged mother and my daughter and was bullying my child to go in and see 'grandma' just don't tell your mother! I did protest to my brother about it but was told it was his house and he could do what he liked. Shortly after that my SIL cut off contact with me and I haven't spoken to her for 10 years.

I realised, after a lot of therapy, that she was just another element of a highly dysfunctional, enmeshed family with a complete lack of boundaries. I tolerated a lot of abuse from my DB and SIL over the years. Lots of not turning up to dinners and events I organised, no warning or apology. Lots of snide remarks and criticisms from SIL. I later discovered she was nasty on the sly to my daughter. They basically walked over me because I allowed myself to be used as a doormat, a hangover from my childhood. My DH, now ex, didn't support me or stand up for me.

Cutting me off was the best possible solution to my SIL problem and I felt an immediate relief from not walking on eggshells around this ridiculous, puffed up creature. Ironically she has been in touch recently because they have now gone NC with my mother and now consider aunts, uncles, cousins etc to be important! Never going there again!

You haven't elaborated on the backstory to your SIL problem but consider this, what is the dynamic in your husband's family? Is he the family scapegoat that can do not right? Does your SIL feel entitled to criticise and put you down? If this is so, you have little chance of changing the dynamic. The lack of remorse and inability to apologize is a big fat indicator of a rigid, nasty attitude towards others.

My SIL wrote me an email slating my awful DM (wholeheartedly agree with her) but never apologized for her own behaviour towards me. It's like nothing happened and we can just meet up after 10 years and play happy families. Completely nuts!!!

That is nuts! I suppose they just don’t see it. There’s definitely a feeling that she is above us because she is more successful and for years I’ve known she doesn’t like me for some reason but dh has always said it’s untrue. He is always the one who tries to keep the peace but he has stood up to her in a way, on the past two occasions but not said anything firm, more ‘I don’t want to listen to this’ and walking away.
There has never been an apology and I will do as the pp said and keep my distance which is quite easy at the moment! If it’s questioned I’ll just say I’m still waiting for the apology. Now she knows I am not the type to stand for this crap, I’m happy. She can ignore my message as a way of trying to avoid further confrontation or to still have the final word but at least I said what I said I guess.

Well done for standing up to her. Firm boundaries are an absolute minimum if you are to continue any sort of relationship with her. It is interesting your husband isn't more forceful with her. Possibly an old childhood dynamic that is being continually replayed in their relationship. Unfortunately 'keeping the piece' with these types does mean ignoring the insults, criticisms and generally poor behaviour. You may want to consider the long term effect on yours and your husbands self-esteem by tolerating her. I really don't believe there is a relationship to be had with people like this but I can understand the desire the keep the family together. My SIL gave off the vibes she didn't like me too.

I wasn't backed up at all by my ex-DH which just left me furious and frustrated at her behaviour and I felt 'obliged' to keep the peace. There was one particular occasion where she surpassed herself, screaming and shouting at me in my own home to 'shut up' for a comment I didn't make (she was drunk) and he just sat there and did nothing. If I knew then what I know now, I would have drop-kicked her out the front door and saved myself any more years of her crap!!

peace not piece!

Be ready for the malicious revenge. She will show that text to anyone and everyone served up in a smear campaign to who ever will listen. These types don’t respond well to being told off.

Don’t be scared of that. If anyone brings it up just give an eye roll and declare her “difficult”.

Why did your DH not send the text?

He likes to let things blow over. I’ve told him he can be like that but I’m not the same and it needs to be stood up to. He pleaded with me not to send a message at all, he said it’ll make it worse. I was pat caring though. People like that need to know not everyone will be happy to let things go and take that kind of abuse.

I agree with Sssloou, you may become a target for revenge for having the audacity to stand up to her. Watch out for attempts to put you back in your place. For-warned is for-armed.

Hopefully your DH's family don't have the pack mentality that mine had. They absolutely loved any discord between family members and loved to pile in, generally on the 'bullying' person's side, no sense of reason or fairness involved. I am guessing your DH is the family scapegoat and has been conditioned to 'fawn' rather than assert when attacked by his DS? You may need to manage his anxiety about this and not let it cause a rift between you and him.

I just hope when she starts her revenge, dh will see through it and stand by me on that one.
Unfortunately the family are like your DH's family. They love to downplay what is said and pretty much use gas lighting tactics on dh to get him to step down. This is the first time I've got involved and spoken up so it'll be interesting to see what they do this time. It has caused a rift before due to exactly how you describe. He has a lot of anxiety over it, he is used to being controlled and told what to do. (not by me obviously!) It's frustrating when I can see clearly what is happening but he has in the past told me it's me with the problem and not to cause trouble by trying to communicate with them about this. I'm not the one being nasty though, I have never spoken to them in a nasty way.
They love to bottle up problems (apart from SIL) so for someone to come along and pull them up on things is seen as a big disturbance to their usual way of dealing with stuff.
I'm so glad I stood up for us. I cannot tell you how much better I feel. It took guts. Even if it goes ignored, it's a really good step in the right direction!

Well done OP.

Sounds like your husband is weak so don't be surprised if he wants to move on.

The least amount of contact possible is the way to go.

However don't allow your husband to make you feel bad.

Tell him you may not feel able to stand up for yourself or our family, but I certainly will.

I would actively avoid SIL again.

She's a bully and brings nothing to your life.

Well done

You need to be careful of being drawn in to arguments. It was quite frankly a bit stupid to argue your point over Covid. You should have just said “your opinion is worthless I’m afraid. The schools rules are exclusion until negative test so we can’t send her back even if we want to. It’s time to change the subject” you need to start being more harsh. More to the point and utterly firm. Your message was wishy washy and too dramatic. Don’t engage any further. You are giving her rent free space inside your head. Stop. Only engage when you have to and be utterly firm with any opinions she offers. Phrases like “sorry you’re wrong” “that’s your opinion but I disagree and I’m not changing my mind” people like her can’t be argued with or cajoled or persuaded. Treat her like you’re an army captain dealing with a difficult recruit.

Yes I was told I was the problem too..... by everyone. It's actually my family that was the issue, not ex-DH. Exactly the same dynamic, no one confronts problems directly, lots of covert/overt bullying going on. All very dysfunctional and unhealthy.

Some reading that may be of use for your husband is Complex PTSD: From surviving to thriving by Pete Walker. Not sure what your husband's background/childhood was, and I am not suggesting he has PTSD, but it outlines common reactions to 'attack'. I had an emotionally abusive and neglectful childhood which led me to develop the 'fawn' reaction to interactions with my family i.e. be nice, keep the peace, suppress my anger, people please. It doesn't work. It doesn't make the problem go away or make unpleasant people treat you with respect.

Your husband's anxiety about this is the real issue here, if you don't mind me saying. Your setting of boundaries is absolutely correct and reasonable but long term, your husband's lack of boundaries will affect both your relationship with each other and could lead to you being scapegoated by his family as the 'problem'. If he doesn't have your back how will you feel?

Just as you guys predicted, the backlash has begun.

MIL called DH today 'distraught' apparently as she thought the message was to her for some reason. (It went to a group chat but they were all there when SIL started her abuse so I thought it was only transparent to include them all in the follow up)
The siblings and parents are up in arms about it and DH has decided to leave me and the dc to make his mother see that it isn't about her and smooth things over. He said it might be he's left for good as what I've done could be beyond repair. All I did was politely tell SIL that she needs to stop bullying us and defend my family.

This is all so weird, you couldn't make it up.
It's clear who the problem is but she's nowhere to be seen in this now. It's all my fault now apparently. I don't really see how?!

I think they're not used to people standing up to the SIL and it's shocked them.

Are you saying your husband has left his wife, children and the family home because of this?

Honestly OP, let him do it.

What an absolute waste of space.

You are surrounded by bully's.

This is a seminal moment for you.

Continue to stand up for yourself and family.

Believe me, if you crumble in the face of such appalling behaviour by your husbsnd, your marriage will never recover from the knowledge that he is so weak.

You cannot change him, you can only lay down your own boundaries.

I know..I can't believe it. He'll forever be pushed around while I act like a normal adult and pick up the pieces.

Recognise that toxic families act like a pack of hyenas. They all fall in behind the aggressors, fanning the flames of toxicity in one direction (ie you) so that they don’t become the target.

My advice is ZERO reaction or response. There is no point turning yourself inside out because they don’t want to hear it. They will spin anything out of anything you say. They are loving this drama and provocation.

Silence. Distance. Dignity.

Give them nothing.

This includes your DH. He has jumped ship not to defend right or wrong but to save his own discomfort because he knows how this toxic dysfunctional family will now erupt.

Carry on with your life and protect your DCs. Don’t get drawn into it. Your DH wants you to comply with their bizarre and unhinged dramatics. Leave him over there to stew in his own mess.

Hi @Realitea, so sorry you are experiencing such an extreme reaction to your perfectly reasonable setting of boundaries. Unfortunately dysfunctional families don't react in reasonable ways and these drama llamas are attempting to put you right back in your place with these hysterics. I am hoping you are seeing the ridiculousness of these people and not allowing them to dent your resolve. It is the pack mentality as @Sssloou says.

Unfortunately it doesn't look like your DH has your back. Is there any chance that you can move him away from his family of origin to allow him to heal from their interference and dysfunction?

Very good advice. I did send one long message to him once it had sunk in that he's actually left to run to his Mummy ( ! ) but now when the phone calls come and accusations fly around I will just repeat 'I'm not getting drawn in to this drama'

He kept saying 'how are you going to help me make MIL calm down and see it's not her that you aimed the message at?' I was so confused. It's nothing to do with her! Why is she upset? Why am I needing to placate anyone? Where is SIL? Why is she not communicating yet her entire family are?

It's these dramatics that the SIL is probably enjoying, knowing that she will be let off. Deep down I think I know she wants me out, she's never liked me and this is her ploy. The longer I remain the calm adult I am, the more they will all look completely unhinged. sadly, I'll be the only one who sees it!

It’s a triangulation - your SIL can step aside and let the others attack you and be branded the scapegoat without getting her hands dirty.

Don’t get drawn into it.

It has nothing to do with you. They are a disordered family. They are entrenched in decades if not generations of nonsense behaviour. You want change it. You could get v hurt and exhausted though - so detach.

Don’t get in their way - look at them like a cast of loons in a pantomime - playing out a cliched script. Let them all crack on with their histrionics.

Don’t say another word - each word is fuel and provides them the distraction of pointing at you rather than looking at themselves.

You were firm and clear, she backed off and dropped the topic. End of.
Perfect result.

Now you know exactly how to handle her and stop her silly accusation dead in their tracks.

@Sssloou

Super advice.

OP, if you can follow this, it will serve you well.

With your husband I wouldn't engage.

He has abandoned his family.

He has abandoned his wife and his children.

This is really huge.

Do not allow him to muddy the issue.

He has chosen to abandon his family.

They sound like the dregs.

Protect yourself and your children.

Your narrative is very simple.

"My husband abandoned his family when I stood up to his sister for abusing us for following Covid Covid recommendations".

He sounds so awful.

You must be so upset, but not surprised.

The calmer you remain, it may give him pause to realise what an appalling excuse of a man he is and regret his actions.

I’ve had fantastic advice it’s really helped. I am really upset and really confused. It’s such strange behaviour that I can’t even believe it’s real.