What should I do? Please help. Avoidant attachment and working towards a future

[realist252]

I posted before about how I was worried that my bf of 18 months might not want to work towards having a future together because we only spent one night in the evening together and one night at the weekend together and it really should be more than that by this stage in the relationship.

I was very anxious about having the conversation with him as he is avoidant due to childhood issues (his mum is a bully and even today will go for months without speaking to him if he has displeased her). However, I gave him notice that I wanted to talk about the future with him so he could get used to/prepare for the idea and not be caught off guard, and he agreed that he wants to work towards a future and settling down with and having a family me so we agreed to increase the time we spend together to one night in the week and 2 nights and 1 day at the weekend as a start, not necessarily spending every moment of the time together, but just getting used to being in each other's space.

The first weekend of the new pattern was last weekend and it went really well, he said what a lovely time we'd had. However, this week he seems to have got cold feet. We planned to do Saturday evening and Sunday day and night this weekend because I am visiting family friends who live far away on Saturday during the day but he twice suggested that I just come to see him on Sunday because it would be 'a lot of driving' (which it would, but it seems to me that this could be him backtracking). I said no and he seemed fine with the original plan.

Then today he messaged to ask if I wanted to go to his friends' for dinner on Saturday. I said it would be lovely but that I wouldn't be back from my family friends' in time. He interpreted this as meaning that he couldn't go, which is not what I said at all - I am actually happy for him to go on his own - and it resulted in an argument. Due to his upbringing, he moves on from arguments as soon as they are over whereas I tend to get upset and dwell, hence why I am up at this time writing this post!

I think his reaction is an illustration of his fear that spending more time together/committing would threaten his independence and space (as an avoidant he is very protective of this).

Is this a lost cause? Should I cut my losses now or should I stick around and demonstrate that commitment doesn't mean that I will want to spend 24/7 with him and that he can still be his own person and do his own thing in the hope that he will realise that commitment doesn't mean sacrificing his identity and independence?

We have had our issues over the 18 months but we have worked to overcome them and really understand each other and each other's needs and communication styles. The relationship is great in so many other ways but I am 30 now (he is 32) and part of me thinks I should just go and find a man willing to commit to a future with me rather than working so hard to meet my boyfriend's needs to make him feel comfortable. But then I could find a man willing to commit who isn't as funny/affectionate/intelligent/fun/sociable/ (all things that are important to me) as my boyfriend is and that's not what I want either.

I truly would be devastated to end things, but better to be devastated now 18 months in rather than 3 years down the line when he still can't commit? (he has committed verbally but his recent attempt to backtrack and his reaction to me not being able to go to his friends' for dinner suggests to me that whilst he may think he wants to commit, he is actually afraid/unable to)

It's still early days in terms of the new pattern of seeing each other - this is only the second weekend of it - so I understand there will be an adjustment period for both of us and, as he is avoidant, he is naturally going to pull back initially. But how much allowance should I make? Do I give it time? Or write it off?

And that's the rub @Sundries. You invest your whole self chasing the elusive intimacy that these characters aren't able to give. Mine had the added level of narcissism and passive aggressiveness to keep me in line and liked to play the nice guy in public.

You mention the workaholism. I am sure my ex-husband's three nights away a week weren't all work related. It was only after the marriage had ended that I realized that of his six weeks annual leave, only 10 days was used on family holidays. Duh!

Family holidays were an extra level of stress. Another home from home. Up and out of the room at the crack of dawn again, looking for things to do on his own. He even test drove a car on one holiday!

That's ten consecutive days holiday, not working days.

I absolutely agree about the chasing the elusive emotional intimacy thing, @Dacquoise -- I had no romantic feelings whatsoever for this man, but I was in a new part of the country and looking for friends in the workplace because I'd found none where I lived, and I very much did the running at the start of our friendship, because I really liked him.

Looking back, I can entirely imagine how appealing he would have been if I'd been looking for a romantic relationship. It's very easy for an emotional loner to appear attractively content in his own company at first.

He didn’t ask for more time with you, you asked for more time with him. That says pretty much everything you need to know. If you hadn’t had this discussion about your future he’d have happily carried on keeping you at arms length with minimal time spent together. You’re convenient to shag and occasionally go on holiday with. There is no way I would waste any more time on this guy.

I’ve been reading this thread with interest as I’ve been in a similar relationship in the past - - I eventually walked away from it and found someone who wanted to commit and was totally not avoidant, the only problem being that I never felt truly into it and sort of talked myself in marrying him and settling down with him because he was everything I thought I wanted and ‘the perfect guy’. I’ve been the avoidant one in this relationship if anything. Now I’m considering separation because it’s just not working and much to my annoyance I STILL think about the avoidant guy I walked away from.

I’m starting to realise the problem might be me. @AnnaFour your post really resonated with me. I think I’m the avoidant one and I didn’t realise it until very recently. I’ve had some counselling but I think I’ve only scratched the surface. I grew up with parents who were together but an avoidant father and a mother who frequently seemed unhappy and fed up. They’re still together now but seem more like housemates than a loving married couple. I don’t know what I need to do going forward but I don’t want to live in a loveless marriage forever like my parents seem to have done and I don’t want to set a bad example to my children. I also don’t want to break their hearts by splitting up the family. It’s torture.

OP it sounds like you both have issues and I’m not in much of a position to give advice but work on yourself first and foremost. You can’t fix him. I think my mum micromanaged my dad into marriage and children and although he’s a good man he was always emotionally distant as a father. I never really knew if he loved me or not and he was always working and not really that present. I feel like the issues I’ve got now stem from my parents and their relationship so I would think carefully about planning children with this man to be honest.

if you really did want it, you’d have seen over 18 months it’s not going to happen and you’d be utterly uninterested in managing him towards commitment.

@AnnaFour Great post, but plenty of women fall for a bloke who turns out not to be keen to give them what they need. Then because they think they love that particular bloke, they find it hard to make the break and cut their losses.

I suppose both can be true- a woman has her own issues and a bloke isn't behaving in a way that's ideal.

Some therapists said my fondness for married/taken men was to avoid rejection, but I don't think so as I would get very involved and in love with them.

It was just a thing I had to decide to not do again, no matter how much I was interested in a bloke.

So, we can have issues to address in therapy but on the other hand also everyday boundaries/assertiveness etc. Of course, one can help the other.

I think deep down you know that control a)doesn't work and b) is a sign that something is up emotionally. I dont think you're daft or unhinged or whatever because you're trying to orchestrate the relationship. I think it is because house really really like him and you have low expectations of what women should accept in relationships. It took me to the age of 40 to realise just how absolutely destructive it is to watch your mother be subjugated in relationships. It imprints you for life, it really does.

I know you probably don't see it but you are defending him a lot. Defending him from who? From your own intuition, is who.

Woah google co dependency, dopamine addiction, covert narcissism and trauma bonding. It will save you time.

From what you're saying it seems as if neither of you know much about healthy well relationships please don't believe me have a read of the Gottman institutes relationship pages.

There's some really good books children of self absorbed parents, parents they f£&& you up. It's all out there for you

I wish you well

I think @AnnaFour has hit on something here - you are both avoidant. He might be more than you but It sounds like you are pretty comfortable with a lot of avoidant behaviours too.

What happened with this relationship? I hope it all worked out for you

@namechangeasparanoid hello! I am the OP but I can’t work out how to get my old username back! I am happy to report that I am no longer in this relationship and have been with my new partner for two years now.

Embarrassingly my ex was the one to end it - I think the whole me wanting to see him more ripped him over the edge. The break up was horribly painful and made worse by the fact that it was lockdown but I threw myself into learning and understanding why I had tolerated such an avoidant man (who could also be very emotionally cruel and abusive) and I learned a lot about myself and why i was attracted to unavailable men.

i met my now partner two years ago and he couldn’t be more different from my ex. He is solid, steady, reliable and accepts me as I am. I am so much happier. Why do you ask? Are you in a similar situation?

Yes, I am. And it was painful to read your texts as it's exactly where I've been. I actually had 3-4 break ups now and just encountered another so I'm doing my best to get through the week and move it along and never go back again (he/we have a cycle/pattern).

I'm so pleased you've got a ay from it and have also found a new healthy love.

If you don't mind, please could you share the steps that you took to recovery and understanding why you tolerated this for so long? Thank you.

I have a fearful attachment style so I’m a bit of both, both anxious and avoidant… so from an avoidant point of view I can see how he operates. Before some extremely traumatic events in my life that caused my attachment style to adapt to such trauma, I’d say I was anxious beforehand and had absolutely no problem with spending time with someone or committing to someone. Now I crave the excitement of a relationship but avoid them. I like to have one foot in the door and one foot out… so basically a situationship is ideal for me!
I have dated someone exactly like you describe and I came to the conclusion they were also avoidant which is how I came to learning about attachment styles! And oh boy did my anxious side come out at the time so much so that my avoidant side was non existent by the time he’d finished with me and all the hurt and destruction he caused!
The difference between me and him was that he thought even a situationship was too ‘intense’ for him and he eventually ran off and blocked me after a year of only a handful of dates because well… he was just too avoidant to commit to anymore than a handful.
My advice to you is that I feel you are wasting your time. As a pp has said, it is soul destroying. The more you try to push a relationship the more they run away. They will push the blame onto you and disregard your feelings by claiming you’re being too intense and dramatic and that they are non drama people and can’t deal with all your so called ‘drama’ of you actually wanting a relationship…. or make some lame excuse about why they cannot see you or be with you and try to pick holes in the relationship and blame you for it’s downfall despite knowing full well they’re the ones who have caused it! Before you know it you have lost your own self worth and self esteem and to them just look weak and pathetic in their eyes by being so upset over their behavior. They are extremely sensitive to criticism and take it as a personal attack… but probably won’t tell you how they feel, just act passive aggressive and stonewall you for days or weeks leaving you wondering what the hell you did so wrong!

The more you try to give them their space the more they enjoy their time and don’t need you and the more resentful you’ll feel about wanting someone who does want to give you the time and attention you deserve.

To conclude this I have now met someone else who appears to have an anxious attachment and he brings out the avoidant side of me.

I have come to the conclusion that anxious people are best having a relationship with another anxious person so that both parties get their needs met, a secure person is probably best with another secure person as they tend not to tolerate bullshit and an avoidant person is better off being with another avoidant person so they can battle it out between themselves over who can be the most avoidant and reject the other first lol.

Are you aware that avoidants deactivate , self sabotage and flaw find?

Im avoidant. And I wouldn’t advise anyone to date someone with that sort of attachment style.

@Mumofnarnia and @Frogger8395 thank you for your comments but this is an old thread and was resurrected by @namechangeasparanoid as she is in a similar situation.

@namechangeasparanoid I'm so sorry to hear that you are going through this - it is exhausting and soul destroying. It is really positive that you have recognised that you have a cycle/pattern though, I didn't begin to notice that until my relationship ended.

For me, what helped was writing down all the avoidant/nasty things he said and did, and writing down what the reality of my future would have looked like if I had stayed with him. I would look at these things during the times I was feeling weak and missing him.

I threw myself into learning about attachment styles, toxic relationships, codependncy, trauma bonding and developing self-love. I listened to podcasts, read websites, read books and spoke to other women going through similar experiences. I also reflected on my past to understand why I tolerated such awful behaviour. For me, it was to do with my dad. He was emotionally unavailable and had an affair when I was 12. At the time I took this as a personal rejection ('how could he risk losing me by having an affair) so I sought out men who were also avoidant and who would reject/never fully accept me because this was familiar and 'safe' to me due to my childhood. Obviously this was done at a subconscious level. Due to my father's behaviour I had a core belief that 'everybody leaves' so I sought out relationships that confirmed this core belief. At the same time, I was also hoping that these avoidant men would come to accept me and that I would be 'good enough' as a way of rewriting history and reassuring my inner child that I am enough, despite my dad leaving.

I had therapy which I didn't find all that helpful as I had already worked out how my past had contributed to allowing the abusive and avoidant behaviour, so I tried life coaching. I was actually very sceptical about this and initially only agreed to it on a whim because I was offered a free session. I found it surprisingly helpful and went on to have three more sessions. It was really helpful for me to focus on the future as opposed to the past - what I wanted my life to look like, what I wanted future relationships to look like, and how to create that.

I am a different person now. Everyone comments on it. I am happier, no longer anxious, i don't cry all the time etc. My current boyfriend is not perfect (who is?!) but he accepts me for who I am, never criticises me (even when I probably deserve it!) and doesn't punish me when I dare to talk about my feelings eg my ex would do so by refusing to speak to me for a number of days. I really thought I was broken but it turns out I'm not - I was just in the wrong relationship!

I really hope you can get through what you're going through, it's a very lonely place. Feel free to DM me if you think it would be helpful to chat more