What should I do? Please help. Avoidant attachment and working towards a future

[realist252]

I posted before about how I was worried that my bf of 18 months might not want to work towards having a future together because we only spent one night in the evening together and one night at the weekend together and it really should be more than that by this stage in the relationship.

I was very anxious about having the conversation with him as he is avoidant due to childhood issues (his mum is a bully and even today will go for months without speaking to him if he has displeased her). However, I gave him notice that I wanted to talk about the future with him so he could get used to/prepare for the idea and not be caught off guard, and he agreed that he wants to work towards a future and settling down with and having a family me so we agreed to increase the time we spend together to one night in the week and 2 nights and 1 day at the weekend as a start, not necessarily spending every moment of the time together, but just getting used to being in each other's space.

The first weekend of the new pattern was last weekend and it went really well, he said what a lovely time we'd had. However, this week he seems to have got cold feet. We planned to do Saturday evening and Sunday day and night this weekend because I am visiting family friends who live far away on Saturday during the day but he twice suggested that I just come to see him on Sunday because it would be 'a lot of driving' (which it would, but it seems to me that this could be him backtracking). I said no and he seemed fine with the original plan.

Then today he messaged to ask if I wanted to go to his friends' for dinner on Saturday. I said it would be lovely but that I wouldn't be back from my family friends' in time. He interpreted this as meaning that he couldn't go, which is not what I said at all - I am actually happy for him to go on his own - and it resulted in an argument. Due to his upbringing, he moves on from arguments as soon as they are over whereas I tend to get upset and dwell, hence why I am up at this time writing this post!

I think his reaction is an illustration of his fear that spending more time together/committing would threaten his independence and space (as an avoidant he is very protective of this).

Is this a lost cause? Should I cut my losses now or should I stick around and demonstrate that commitment doesn't mean that I will want to spend 24/7 with him and that he can still be his own person and do his own thing in the hope that he will realise that commitment doesn't mean sacrificing his identity and independence?

We have had our issues over the 18 months but we have worked to overcome them and really understand each other and each other's needs and communication styles. The relationship is great in so many other ways but I am 30 now (he is 32) and part of me thinks I should just go and find a man willing to commit to a future with me rather than working so hard to meet my boyfriend's needs to make him feel comfortable. But then I could find a man willing to commit who isn't as funny/affectionate/intelligent/fun/sociable/ (all things that are important to me) as my boyfriend is and that's not what I want either.

I truly would be devastated to end things, but better to be devastated now 18 months in rather than 3 years down the line when he still can't commit? (he has committed verbally but his recent attempt to backtrack and his reaction to me not being able to go to his friends' for dinner suggests to me that whilst he may think he wants to commit, he is actually afraid/unable to)

It's still early days in terms of the new pattern of seeing each other - this is only the second weekend of it - so I understand there will be an adjustment period for both of us and, as he is avoidant, he is naturally going to pull back initially. But how much allowance should I make? Do I give it time? Or write it off?

I don’t think him wanting to be around you all the time is ‘fairytale’ territory... it’s kind of normal in a new relationship. You’re 18 months in and he’s still trying to get used to seeing you more than once a week. Just think about that.

I don't know if excusing/trying to adjust to his behaviour because you've decided he's 'an avoidant' helps.

What matters is whether you're happy with the relationship and with how much you're getting out of it. Doesn't sound like you are and I don't think he's the right guy for you.

An example of this is when he got new curtains - I asked if he liked them once they had been put up and his response was 'I don't know yet' - it takes him time to adjust to changes. Now he's had them a while he likes them but the initial change was a bit much for him. Does that make sense? So in the same way, it may take him time to adjust to this change in the relationship.

Oh, OP, this is so depressing. It's not a matter of whether he likes the bloody curtains, it's a matter of when his change-averse, routine-bound brain stops noticing the new something, thereby making it OK. Basically, the ideal curtains are the ones that have always been there and don't make any demands or require him to notice them.

Like the kind of person (usually male) who is entirely blind to their disgusting ancient band tshirts and worn-out eighties jeans and lives in horror of a new garment being introduced (usually by someone else), because, well, it's new.

OP, do you really want to be that curtain? That the best you can hope for is that he eventually, grudgingly, gets used to your presence for longer periods, as he gets habituated to it, like an old, much-washed pair of pants?

As a pp said, this is hardly the fairytale. You deserve more.

"Not sure how I feel about this. Obviously in a fairytale he would want to be around me all the time etc but this is real life and not so simple. Wondering what others think? I am planning on giving it 3 months to see how he adjusts."

Okay - like other PPs, my initial feeling was simply: the guy is an old-fashioned commitment-phobe and you shouldn't be contorting yourself to suit him. Most "commitment-phobes" settle down eventually without lots of contortion being required from their partner - they meet a woman to whom they feel ready to commit because they've done whatever wild oat sowing they wanted to do.

From your update, though, it does sound as if he is trying to make a more serious commitment to you and he may just need some time. When my H and I got together, I had been single for most of my 20s and it did take me a while to get used to accommodating someone else in my life again so there may be something in what he says.

However, it does sound as if you are having to fight rather too hard for a relationship that comes anywhere close to meeting your needs. So I think you are right to keep an eye on how things go and to be ready to draw a line under this relationship if you don't see meaningful progress in a relatively short space of time - particularly if you are looking for someone to have a family with.

If you want to expand on your attachment styles stuff then you will know that dismissive/avoidant and anxious/preoccupied is the worst possible combination.

You are both at extremes of the spectrum on this and are not in any way compatible within an intimate, communication, partnership. You are already in the tug of war at 18 months dating - you are headed for a v tedious, confrontational, conflict ridden life.

The dynamic is that he emotionally and physically withdraws every time he hears a woman’s voice - he distorts everything to see it as a nag, control, intrusion - and he then withdraws and resists.

He hates his mother and hears his mother in your voice and actions and will spend his life resisting and withdrawing from you.

He has v limited communication skills and cannot do confrontation and negotiation. He doesn’t have a blue print for partnership in relationships.

Imagine he is a snail retreating deeper and deeper into his shell - each time you “demand” and up the ante in your anxious preoccupied way.

You don’t meet each other’s needs - you actively conflict. He doesn’t meet yours for reassurance, emotional intimacy, being heard, being a priority in each other’s lives - planning a future together.

He is deeply entrenched in this attachment style.

Seriously don’t waste another minute of your finite and precious fertile years or being DC into this torturous dynamic.

There is a much more compatible person out here for you. Your life will be much more enriched, fulfilled, warm, loving and easy with someone else. Really no need to push water up hill for life to be this hard.

@wonderingwanderer2

Realist252 again here. Thank you everyone for your thoughts.

We discussed it this weekend and he said it is just a period of adjustment for him - he moved out of home and bought his own flat at the age of 21 to get away from his mother as they were not getting on and she was controlling and highly critical. He has never had flatmates/housemates and so has lived alone for 11 years, doing whatever he wants whenever he wants and not having to consider another person etc, whereas his friends have had girlfriends living with them asap and seen many coming and going over the years.

He said he does want a future with me and that he does want to give us a chance, but that there will be a period of him having to get used to us being around each other more. It's not that he doesn't want it, it's just that it takes him time to adjust to change.

An example of this is when he got new curtains - I asked if he liked them once they had been put up and his response was 'I don't know yet' - it takes him time to adjust to changes. Now he's had them a while he likes them but the initial change was a bit much for him. Does that make sense? So in the same way, it may take him time to adjust to this change in the relationship.

Not sure how I feel about this. Obviously in a fairytale he would want to be around me all the time etc but this is real life and not so simple. Wondering what others think? I am planning on giving it 3 months to see how he adjusts.

Oh Christ!

Life is too short for this. He's adjusting to spend a tiny bit of extra time with you. It's going to take years at this rate for him to 'adjust' to living together and more.

You are turning yourself inside out for him.

You are worth more. It shouldnt be this hard, he should be actively wanting to spend more time together, not 'adjusting' to it.

What about your wants and needs, don't you matter?

@rookiemere

Do you want DCs OP ? If so then please just walk away. I was married within 18 months of meeting my boyfriend in my early 30s.

I do, but not yet and he has said he is on board with the idea of starting a family in the next few years.

Oh this sound's like a lot of hard work, and there is not real reason you couldn't spend more time together?

I've been in a relationship the same length of time and we've both got kid's but we spend as much time together as we can fit in. I couldn't imagine seeing him only once a week, i don't know how you do it

What was your parents RS like OP?

If he can't cope with a change of curtains, how the heck is he going to cope with a baby. It's like a bomb going off in even the strongest of relationships.

And in a few years he’ll just need another few years to come to terms with the idea.

Fuck me, I’m exhausted just reading this!
I really could not be arsed with all this analysing and picking over everything, there’s millions of men out there, find one that makes you jump for joy!!

@SoUtterlyGroundDown

I don’t think him wanting to be around you all the time is ‘fairytale’ territory... it’s kind of normal in a new relationship. You’re 18 months in and he’s still trying to get used to seeing you more than once a week. Just think about that.

Well if I am completely honest I like my own space too so I'm not sure I'd want to spend every second of every day with him either. We are actually trying to get used to doing 3 days a week rather than the 2 we did before. From talking to one of his friend's girlfriends' about this, it seems that he thinks he will need to be with me all the time and not see his friends etc which isn't what I'm proposing.

I spoke to a friend about this and she sympathises with him - she and her husband lived in different countries and only saw each other once a month for 4 years before she hit 33 and they decided to settle down and get married. She said she found the adjustment incredibly difficult and would still like her own space more but that has no bearing on how much she loves her husband, it is just the way she is.

Well sounds perfect then.

@Dery

"Not sure how I feel about this. Obviously in a fairytale he would want to be around me all the time etc but this is real life and not so simple. Wondering what others think? I am planning on giving it 3 months to see how he adjusts."

Okay - like other PPs, my initial feeling was simply: the guy is an old-fashioned commitment-phobe and you shouldn't be contorting yourself to suit him. Most "commitment-phobes" settle down eventually without lots of contortion being required from their partner - they meet a woman to whom they feel ready to commit because they've done whatever wild oat sowing they wanted to do.

From your update, though, it does sound as if he is trying to make a more serious commitment to you and he may just need some time. When my H and I got together, I had been single for most of my 20s and it did take me a while to get used to accommodating someone else in my life again so there may be something in what he says.

However, it does sound as if you are having to fight rather too hard for a relationship that comes anywhere close to meeting your needs. So I think you are right to keep an eye on how things go and to be ready to draw a line under this relationship if you don't see meaningful progress in a relatively short space of time - particularly if you are looking for someone to have a family with.

Yes, I agree with you. I am not good at having someone in my space all the time either so it will be a period of adjustment for us both. Part of the reason why I haven't pushed for this earlier was because I quite enjoyed the distance/space too - it's not all on him.

From this weekend though it does seem like he is trying - we will be doing the same pattern again this week and next weekend and he hasn't tried to back out, and he has been able to be honest with me about his reasons for the initial reluctance.

I think 3 months is a reasonable amount of time to see if he is able to cope with it. But you're right - if not, I will need to leave.

@Sssloou

If you want to expand on your attachment styles stuff then you will know that dismissive/avoidant and anxious/preoccupied is the worst possible combination.

You are both at extremes of the spectrum on this and are not in any way compatible within an intimate, communication, partnership. You are already in the tug of war at 18 months dating - you are headed for a v tedious, confrontational, conflict ridden life.

The dynamic is that he emotionally and physically withdraws every time he hears a woman’s voice - he distorts everything to see it as a nag, control, intrusion - and he then withdraws and resists.

He hates his mother and hears his mother in your voice and actions and will spend his life resisting and withdrawing from you.

He has v limited communication skills and cannot do confrontation and negotiation. He doesn’t have a blue print for partnership in relationships.

Imagine he is a snail retreating deeper and deeper into his shell - each time you “demand” and up the ante in your anxious preoccupied way.

You don’t meet each other’s needs - you actively conflict. He doesn’t meet yours for reassurance, emotional intimacy, being heard, being a priority in each other’s lives - planning a future together.

He is deeply entrenched in this attachment style.

Seriously don’t waste another minute of your finite and precious fertile years or being DC into this torturous dynamic.

There is a much more compatible person out here for you. Your life will be much more enriched, fulfilled, warm, loving and easy with someone else. Really no need to push water up hill for life to be this hard.

Yes I am aware that it is a bad combination, but also that these things can be overcome.

He doesn't actually withdraw every time he hears a woman's voice - he has many female friends so it's not the case that he views all women negatively. And as for the relationship with his mother, he doesn't hate her, they just don't get on when they live together. She can be difficult but he acknowledges this and accepts her as she is.

When he meets the one he wants to marry he’ll have a ring on her finger faster than you can say “brilliant cut or emerald cut?”.

It’s not about general female friends - it’s a dynamic specific to intimate female relationships

@Sssloou

What was your parents RS like OP?

Not the best...I saw very little affection between them, they struck me more as friends than anything else but I felt loved and never doubted that their relationship was strong until my dad had numerous affairs in my teens which had a hugely negative impact on me and which is why I overanalyse and think about things so much.

@Fluffycloudland77

When he meets the one he wants to marry he’ll have a ring on her finger faster than you can say “brilliant cut or emerald cut?”.

So why is he wasting time with me and not going out to find her? And why is he trying to meet my needs by giving up some of the independence that he values so highly?

Are you happy OP?

@SBTLove

Fuck me, I’m exhausted just reading this! I really could not be arsed with all this analysing and picking over everything, there’s millions of men out there, find one that makes you jump for joy!!

I know, but I am like this in any relationship - analysing and overthinking. A legacy of my parents' own dysfunctional marriage.

He sounds very much like my best friend's partner. They don't live together - in fact they don't even live in the same county and see each other every couple of weeks (covid notwithstanding). He has intimacy problems due to childhood sexual abuse so they don't have sex (she is happy with that because she doesn't like sex anyway). He totally compartmentalises his life so she hasn't met his friends and family (and he hasn't most of hers because she's not a family person and her friends are scattered around the world).

They are planning on getting married in a couple of years. Neither of them want kids and she's nearly 50 anyway. They are one of the closest and most intimate couples I know despite all of that. They just gel and they make each other happy. She does need to give him space and lots of understanding - but that suits her because she has her life, her dad to look after and a great career amd friends.

At nearly 50 and nearly 60 it works. At 30 and wanting kids....🤷🏻‍♀️

@SoUtterlyGroundDown

Are you happy OP?

I am happy when I am with him and I feel happier now knowing that he is trying and making an effort.

I kind of understand where he is coming from because I have my own concerns around spending more time together. I am in recovery from anorexia and I know that spending more time with him will mean less control over food which I find intensely difficult to deal with, but I will put up with the discomfort because ultimately I want to build a life with him. I think he is similarly ambivalent for his own reasons - wanting to build and life and work towards a future but worried about a loss of independence, perhaps not being able to see his friends so much, me being rigid about spending time with me so that he can't have space when he wants/needs it etc.

So basically this relationship is 'all about him and his issues' ? All nicely wrapped up in armchair psychology to excuse behaviour most women wouldn't put up with for 18 days let alone 18 months

You say 'avoidant' just another word for an old fashioned commitment phobe.. in most cases because they are keeping there options open

Lots of assumptions here. OP’s partner might be quite happy and “issue free” with the relationship as it stands. Not always men either

OP I’m the avoidant partner in a similar scenario. I really look forward to seeing my partner twice a week, but he’s always trying to push it up and I find that stressful. I also find choosing curtains stressful

It doesn’t mean that I don’t love him as I really look forward to seeing him, enjoy the anticipation and really enjoy our time together.

Issue is of course that you want more and want to settle down and the relationship is not going anywhere fast.

Without wanting to encourage you to gameplay, I appreciate my partner more when he is less available. It could be quite telling for you to arrange other things in your time together and see how keen he is to make up that time with you