What should I do? Please help. Avoidant attachment and working towards a future

[realist252]

I posted before about how I was worried that my bf of 18 months might not want to work towards having a future together because we only spent one night in the evening together and one night at the weekend together and it really should be more than that by this stage in the relationship.

I was very anxious about having the conversation with him as he is avoidant due to childhood issues (his mum is a bully and even today will go for months without speaking to him if he has displeased her). However, I gave him notice that I wanted to talk about the future with him so he could get used to/prepare for the idea and not be caught off guard, and he agreed that he wants to work towards a future and settling down with and having a family me so we agreed to increase the time we spend together to one night in the week and 2 nights and 1 day at the weekend as a start, not necessarily spending every moment of the time together, but just getting used to being in each other's space.

The first weekend of the new pattern was last weekend and it went really well, he said what a lovely time we'd had. However, this week he seems to have got cold feet. We planned to do Saturday evening and Sunday day and night this weekend because I am visiting family friends who live far away on Saturday during the day but he twice suggested that I just come to see him on Sunday because it would be 'a lot of driving' (which it would, but it seems to me that this could be him backtracking). I said no and he seemed fine with the original plan.

Then today he messaged to ask if I wanted to go to his friends' for dinner on Saturday. I said it would be lovely but that I wouldn't be back from my family friends' in time. He interpreted this as meaning that he couldn't go, which is not what I said at all - I am actually happy for him to go on his own - and it resulted in an argument. Due to his upbringing, he moves on from arguments as soon as they are over whereas I tend to get upset and dwell, hence why I am up at this time writing this post!

I think his reaction is an illustration of his fear that spending more time together/committing would threaten his independence and space (as an avoidant he is very protective of this).

Is this a lost cause? Should I cut my losses now or should I stick around and demonstrate that commitment doesn't mean that I will want to spend 24/7 with him and that he can still be his own person and do his own thing in the hope that he will realise that commitment doesn't mean sacrificing his identity and independence?

We have had our issues over the 18 months but we have worked to overcome them and really understand each other and each other's needs and communication styles. The relationship is great in so many other ways but I am 30 now (he is 32) and part of me thinks I should just go and find a man willing to commit to a future with me rather than working so hard to meet my boyfriend's needs to make him feel comfortable. But then I could find a man willing to commit who isn't as funny/affectionate/intelligent/fun/sociable/ (all things that are important to me) as my boyfriend is and that's not what I want either.

I truly would be devastated to end things, but better to be devastated now 18 months in rather than 3 years down the line when he still can't commit? (he has committed verbally but his recent attempt to backtrack and his reaction to me not being able to go to his friends' for dinner suggests to me that whilst he may think he wants to commit, he is actually afraid/unable to)

It's still early days in terms of the new pattern of seeing each other - this is only the second weekend of it - so I understand there will be an adjustment period for both of us and, as he is avoidant, he is naturally going to pull back initially. But how much allowance should I make? Do I give it time? Or write it off?

He’s happy to shag you etc but that’s all you’ll get with this one.

OP, do you really want to be that curtain? That the best you can hope for is that he eventually, grudgingly, gets used to your presence for longer periods, as he gets habituated to it, like an old, much-washed pair of pants?

This is so well put.

You're mistaking the difference between liking alone time and liking the freedom of not having to put another person first. You like the former, he likes the latter.

I like alone time, probably more than my partner. So we will happily be doing different stuff in different rooms, shout in to check on the other one, have a laugh popping into each other and sometimes do stuff together too. Because we are comfortable and happy together, so neither feels rejected or smothered. We are compatible even though we are different.

However in your relationship you are turning yourself inside out to cater to his wants and needs, which will inevitably lead to resentment and toxicity.

You're 18 months in with no ties and it's already work, work, work. Add in shared finances, a baby, a wedding... you really think he's a suitable partner for those things?!

A decent, loving partner sees their partner as an equal person and a teammate. Instead of acting that way, he makes you work so hard and wants you to see him spending time with you as an achievement or sacrifice...

Bloody hell I'm exhausted just hearing about the dynamic so you must be running on empty. I know sometimes the whole 'it shouldn't be this hard' thing sounds like a throwaway moment but my god it's true here.

Do not give your 30s to a man like this.

And PP is right, most of the men I know who were like this with a long term partner they kept at arms length / made work really hard for their affection were engaged and expecting a baby with the next girlfriend within a year.

This relationship isn't healthy, balanced or happy.

@SecretSpAD

He sounds very much like my best friend's partner. They don't live together - in fact they don't even live in the same county and see each other every couple of weeks (covid notwithstanding). He has intimacy problems due to childhood sexual abuse so they don't have sex (she is happy with that because she doesn't like sex anyway). He totally compartmentalises his life so she hasn't met his friends and family (and he hasn't most of hers because she's not a family person and her friends are scattered around the world).

They are planning on getting married in a couple of years. Neither of them want kids and she's nearly 50 anyway. They are one of the closest and most intimate couples I know despite all of that. They just gel and they make each other happy. She does need to give him space and lots of understanding - but that suits her because she has her life, her dad to look after and a great career amd friends.

At nearly 50 and nearly 60 it works. At 30 and wanting kids....🤷🏻‍♀️

It's nice to hear about your friends. My situation is different - he has met my family and friends and I am fully integrated into his circle of friends and we have a decent sex life.

Isn't part of a relationship giving each other space (when needed) and understanding? I am trying to understand him by taking a step back now eg not texting so much, making sure we have time to ourselves even when we're together and he is trying to understand me by texting me more and getting used to the new amount of time spent together.

He has never had a long-term relationship before because he spent his 30s building his career in a private equity firm in the City. Having spoken to his friends about it, they say it's not that he doesn't want to be with me, it's just that he's not used to this way of being and it's all a learning curve for him.

I am happy when I am with him and I feel happier now knowing that he is trying and making an effort.

But this is written as if you appreciate him doing something really difficult / arduous / a sacrifice. You appreciate him doing something he's had to be pushed to do - be nice to you and enjoy spending time with you. It's so unhealthy and you're worth more.

I wouldn't want to live with a man now, tried that and didn't like it, was too much like being at the mercy of my father's moods as a child.

But this is what I want at 43, just someone to see sometimes etc. At 30 I wanted a relationship that was 'going somewhere,' with clear progression towards marriage etc. That's what would've made me feel fully loved and appreciated and like I was in a real, proper relationship.

Everyone's different and you want more now @realist252 . Please let us know how it goes. xxxx

@AuntieJoyce

So basically this relationship is 'all about him and his issues' ? All nicely wrapped up in armchair psychology to excuse behaviour most women wouldn't put up with for 18 days let alone 18 months

You say 'avoidant' just another word for an old fashioned commitment phobe.. in most cases because they are keeping there options open

Lots of assumptions here. OP’s partner might be quite happy and “issue free” with the relationship as it stands. Not always men either

OP I’m the avoidant partner in a similar scenario. I really look forward to seeing my partner twice a week, but he’s always trying to push it up and I find that stressful. I also find choosing curtains stressful

It doesn’t mean that I don’t love him as I really look forward to seeing him, enjoy the anticipation and really enjoy our time together.

Issue is of course that you want more and want to settle down and the relationship is not going anywhere fast.

Without wanting to encourage you to gameplay, I appreciate my partner more when he is less available. It could be quite telling for you to arrange other things in your time together and see how keen he is to make up that time with you

Thank you for your perspective. What you say is exactly what I am doing now - making myself less available. I stayed at his this weekend but took myself off shopping for the morning and surprise surprise he wanted to take me out for a walk and to the pub for the afternoon/evening! Similarly he went out on Friday night so I did my own thing at his, but when he came back he was keen to stay up and chat etc. So I think you're right.

@newnameforthis123

I am happy when I am with him and I feel happier now knowing that he is trying and making an effort.

But this is written as if you appreciate him doing something really difficult / arduous / a sacrifice. You appreciate him doing something he's had to be pushed to do - be nice to you and enjoy spending time with you. It's so unhealthy and you're worth more.

But it IS hard for him. It's not that he isn't nice to me or that he doesn't like spending time with me, it's that he finds adjustment hard. The two are not mutually exclusive. He is very routine driven so any change to his routine will take a while for him to get used to.

@newnameforthis123

OP, do you really want to be that curtain? That the best you can hope for is that he eventually, grudgingly, gets used to your presence for longer periods, as he gets habituated to it, like an old, much-washed pair of pants?

This is so well put.

You're mistaking the difference between liking alone time and liking the freedom of not having to put another person first. You like the former, he likes the latter.

I like alone time, probably more than my partner. So we will happily be doing different stuff in different rooms, shout in to check on the other one, have a laugh popping into each other and sometimes do stuff together too. Because we are comfortable and happy together, so neither feels rejected or smothered. We are compatible even though we are different.

However in your relationship you are turning yourself inside out to cater to his wants and needs, which will inevitably lead to resentment and toxicity.

You're 18 months in with no ties and it's already work, work, work. Add in shared finances, a baby, a wedding... you really think he's a suitable partner for those things?!

A decent, loving partner sees their partner as an equal person and a teammate. Instead of acting that way, he makes you work so hard and wants you to see him spending time with you as an achievement or sacrifice...

Bloody hell I'm exhausted just hearing about the dynamic so you must be running on empty. I know sometimes the whole 'it shouldn't be this hard' thing sounds like a throwaway moment but my god it's true here.

Do not give your 30s to a man like this.

And PP is right, most of the men I know who were like this with a long term partner they kept at arms length / made work really hard for their affection were engaged and expecting a baby with the next girlfriend within a year.

This relationship isn't healthy, balanced or happy.

I don't think it's true that he doesn't put me first and I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion.

He puts me first in many ways - cooking a dinner he knows I'll like, making an effort with my friends, organising my 30th birthday party, helping my friends with CVs/job applictations (he works in HR). I don't feel that I am turning myself inside out to cater to his needs, we are both working on changing our lives to accommodate each other, he is just more vocal about it being challenging than me.

@realist252 they are genuinely very happy - I do know them both because I introduced them! He's been a friend for years as well.

I think that we tend to have a view of how a relationship should be. I know that when my husband and I got together years ago I worried about us being serious - and seen to be serious - for a long time because we were in different countries. But we were serious. We loved each other and that was just the way our relationship was. I have seen my friends' relationship bloom and have gone from being surprised to sceptical to horrified to happy for them. It's your relationship, run it to suit you both and if that means giving him time - then as long as you're happy, do it.

You’re reading way too much into his actions too, he’s a man. They’re not that complex. They just aren’t. You need to dial it back several notches because when they do want to be with you they are very focused on making that happen.

My dh was with his ex for 22 years & never married because he always felt it wasn’t quite the relationship he’d envisioned for himself but they did all the couple things and bought houses etc. She went off with another bloke (maybe dh wasn’t what she’d had in mind either) and he met me and we started talking about marriage within a month. His ex married the bloke she’d run off with.

That’s what you deserve too, someone who can’t wait to see you not someone who can fit you in two weeks on Wednesday.

Also, he says he wants kids in a few years time because it gives him breathing space, in a few years time he’ll still be kicking that can down the road.

@SoulofanAggron

I wouldn't want to live with a man now, tried that and didn't like it, was too much like being at the mercy of my father's moods as a child.

But this is what I want at 43, just someone to see sometimes etc. At 30 I wanted a relationship that was 'going somewhere,' with clear progression towards marriage etc. That's what would've made me feel fully loved and appreciated and like I was in a real, proper relationship.

Everyone's different and you want more now @realist252 . Please let us know how it goes. xxxx

Thank you very much.

We have spoken about our progression to marriage - starting with this extra day at the weekend, then spending another day in the week together, then spending half the week at each other's houses to mimic living together but it is likely to be a slower process than some other couples and I am actually ok with that because it takes me time to adjust to things too.

I do feel loved and appreciated - he always tells me that I look nice/I'm pretty, he is very affectionate, he is keen to involve me in all areas of his life. It's just that I crave certainty due to my dad's affairs when I was a teenager. Before we had the conversation at the weekend and I didn't know why he was reticient and thought he was having second thoughts, whereas now I feel a bit clearer that he does want the same as me but that it will be a period of adjustment for him. And I think that's ok - very few things in life are black and white. He could well tell me everything I want to hear with no intention of following through but I appreciate that he is being honest with me.

[quote SecretSpAD]@realist252 they are genuinely very happy - I do know them both because I introduced them! He's been a friend for years as well.

I think that we tend to have a view of how a relationship should be. I know that when my husband and I got together years ago I worried about us being serious - and seen to be serious - for a long time because we were in different countries. But we were serious. We loved each other and that was just the way our relationship was. I have seen my friends' relationship bloom and have gone from being surprised to sceptical to horrified to happy for them. It's your relationship, run it to suit you both and if that means giving him time - then as long as you're happy, do it. [/quote]
Ah how lovely, well done you!

This is so true! We expect to conform to societal norms but that might not be right for everyone - some people move in together after weeks of meeting whereas others take years. It is individual and unique to the couple.

I am happy that he is able to be honest with me about his struggles and I think it is reasonable to give him time to adjust. Of course it could all still go wrong but I am not really feeling inclined to end it now just because he has said it will take him time to get used to the new routine as I kind of feel similarly (as I am in recovery from anorexia it has taken me a lot of time to work out how I will manage food and not being in control during this extra day) but have been less vocal about it, that's all.

You sound so clinical. How far into the relationship were you when you appointed yourself his relationship tutor? If you love him, why are you so laser focused on changing him into someone else?

Relationships aren't supposed to be like embarking on a fixer upper home improvement project. That is not what people mean when they say about relationships needing work; they mean they require effort and nurturing not hard labour and Gantt charts.

The way you're treating him is unpleasant and unhealthy. It's very uncomfortable to read.

Everyone likes certainly, that’s all of us when we love someone. We want to know.

Anyone can say anything. I’ve heard people say my sil cooked a nice Xmas meal and it was an insult to the life of the poor turkey.

Do you not think you've transferred your need to control food onto him/this relationship?

@Fluffycloudland77

You’re reading way too much into his actions too, he’s a man. They’re not that complex. They just aren’t. You need to dial it back several notches because when they do want to be with you they are very focused on making that happen.

My dh was with his ex for 22 years & never married because he always felt it wasn’t quite the relationship he’d envisioned for himself but they did all the couple things and bought houses etc. She went off with another bloke (maybe dh wasn’t what she’d had in mind either) and he met me and we started talking about marriage within a month. His ex married the bloke she’d run off with.

That’s what you deserve too, someone who can’t wait to see you not someone who can fit you in two weeks on Wednesday.

Also, he says he wants kids in a few years time because it gives him breathing space, in a few years time he’ll still be kicking that can down the road.

I hear what you are saying. I am dialling it back several notches and letting him come to me. It worked this weekend but time will tell.

He often says he looks forward to seeing me and he does make time for me, it doesn't feel to me like he just 'fits me in' eg he prioritises seeing me over seeing his friends.

Why are you trying to turn a dog into a cat, as it were? He is what he is. You deserve to be with someone who is keen to build a future with you. If you hang around for years with this man, you run a very real risk of losing your remaining fertile years.

I hope you do because the women on this thread are probably older than you, we’ve seen what these men get up to & we can spot it a mile off now.

We’re not man haters we just know what their like.

@user13745865422563

Do you not think you've transferred your need to control food onto him/this relationship?

Quite possibly. I look for certainty in life because my whole world crashed when my dad had affairs in my teens and I remember thinking 'if my own dad who is the most trustworthy person ever can do that then I can't trust anyone'. I took his affairs as a personal rejection - 'how could he do this knowing he would risk the relationship with his daughter?'

I was ill for many years and that partly served as a barrier to relationships - i didn't want them because being in a relationship with someone means that they could let you down (and this would bring back all the memories/hurt of my dads' affairs) whereas if you are self-reliant you do not run that risk.

I am past that stage now obviously but I am still intensely afraid of being rejected/let down/hurt which is why I overanalyse and worry about things so much. I am constantly on the lookout for signs that something might not be right so that I can be the one to end the relationship rather than risking allowing the other person to hurt me.

I am now trying to take a step back from the relationship. He has told me he wants to work towards a future and is adjusting his routines and behaviour in order to do this even though he finds it difficult. I do not want to push/control him anymore and I want to give him space to get used to it. I need to let go and see what happens I think.

You have so much unresolved emotional baggage OP. You can free yourself of this burden and live an emotionally healthy and balanced life.

You have so much healing and work to do on your own internal world. Please stop for a moment and focus on that - you sound co-dep and he is a frustrating project that if you could just manoeuvre and manipulative all would be well in your world. You also seem to JADE (justify, argue, defend, explain) - your decisions and feelings to minimise the incongruity of the RS so that you avoid the discomfort of separation.

Seriously give yourself the biggest gift that will last a lifetime - some decent therapy to resolve your childhood issues once and for all otherwise they will keep playing out time and time again.

@Roberta268

Why are you trying to turn a dog into a cat, as it were? He is what he is. You deserve to be with someone who is keen to build a future with you. If you hang around for years with this man, you run a very real risk of losing your remaining fertile years.

He can be keen and also find the adjustment difficult. I do not plan on waiting around for years. I am going to give him 3 months to get used to this and then when we reach the 2 year stage I would like to move to spending an additional weeknight at each other's.

@Sssloou

You have so much unresolved emotional baggage OP. You can free yourself of this burden and live an emotionally healthy and balanced life.

You have so much healing and work to do on your own internal world. Please stop for a moment and focus on that - you sound co-dep and he is a frustrating project that if you could just manoeuvre and manipulative all would be well in your world. You also seem to JADE (justify, argue, defend, explain) - your decisions and feelings to minimise the incongruity of the RS so that you avoid the discomfort of separation.

Seriously give yourself the biggest gift that will last a lifetime - some decent therapy to resolve your childhood issues once and for all otherwise they will keep playing out time and time again.

You are probably right about the counselling.

I think the JADE thing is part of me trying to understand what is really going on in both my world and his, and also correcting posters who have made assumptions about him...

is the fact that he is making an effort not enough?

The chance of getting hurt is the risk we all take in relationships. You have to expect the unexpected like that.

There’s nothing to stop my dh meeting someone else and going. These things happen and if it does I’ll just have to deal with that. I’d get over it.

when we reach the 2 year stage I would like to move to spending an additional weeknight at each other's.

But it's going to take years to even just move in together going at this pace. It shouldn't be this hard.

I'm sorry about your own issues, I think that they are tied up in this and it's very unhealthy.

Does he feel safer because he's keeping you at arms length with 'rules' about how many nights you can see each other etc?

@Fluffycloudland77

The chance of getting hurt is the risk we all take in relationships. You have to expect the unexpected like that.

There’s nothing to stop my dh meeting someone else and going. These things happen and if it does I’ll just have to deal with that. I’d get over it.

I know that really but it still doesn't stop me worrying! I have made progress since swearing off all relationships though...