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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What should I do? Please help. Avoidant attachment and working towards a future

141 replies

realist252 · 03/10/2020 02:52

I posted before about how I was worried that my bf of 18 months might not want to work towards having a future together because we only spent one night in the evening together and one night at the weekend together and it really should be more than that by this stage in the relationship.

I was very anxious about having the conversation with him as he is avoidant due to childhood issues (his mum is a bully and even today will go for months without speaking to him if he has displeased her). However, I gave him notice that I wanted to talk about the future with him so he could get used to/prepare for the idea and not be caught off guard, and he agreed that he wants to work towards a future and settling down with and having a family me so we agreed to increase the time we spend together to one night in the week and 2 nights and 1 day at the weekend as a start, not necessarily spending every moment of the time together, but just getting used to being in each other's space.

The first weekend of the new pattern was last weekend and it went really well, he said what a lovely time we'd had. However, this week he seems to have got cold feet. We planned to do Saturday evening and Sunday day and night this weekend because I am visiting family friends who live far away on Saturday during the day but he twice suggested that I just come to see him on Sunday because it would be 'a lot of driving' (which it would, but it seems to me that this could be him backtracking). I said no and he seemed fine with the original plan.

Then today he messaged to ask if I wanted to go to his friends' for dinner on Saturday. I said it would be lovely but that I wouldn't be back from my family friends' in time. He interpreted this as meaning that he couldn't go, which is not what I said at all - I am actually happy for him to go on his own - and it resulted in an argument. Due to his upbringing, he moves on from arguments as soon as they are over whereas I tend to get upset and dwell, hence why I am up at this time writing this post!

I think his reaction is an illustration of his fear that spending more time together/committing would threaten his independence and space (as an avoidant he is very protective of this).

Is this a lost cause? Should I cut my losses now or should I stick around and demonstrate that commitment doesn't mean that I will want to spend 24/7 with him and that he can still be his own person and do his own thing in the hope that he will realise that commitment doesn't mean sacrificing his identity and independence?

We have had our issues over the 18 months but we have worked to overcome them and really understand each other and each other's needs and communication styles. The relationship is great in so many other ways but I am 30 now (he is 32) and part of me thinks I should just go and find a man willing to commit to a future with me rather than working so hard to meet my boyfriend's needs to make him feel comfortable. But then I could find a man willing to commit who isn't as funny/affectionate/intelligent/fun/sociable/ (all things that are important to me) as my boyfriend is and that's not what I want either.

I truly would be devastated to end things, but better to be devastated now 18 months in rather than 3 years down the line when he still can't commit? (he has committed verbally but his recent attempt to backtrack and his reaction to me not being able to go to his friends' for dinner suggests to me that whilst he may think he wants to commit, he is actually afraid/unable to)

It's still early days in terms of the new pattern of seeing each other - this is only the second weekend of it - so I understand there will be an adjustment period for both of us and, as he is avoidant, he is naturally going to pull back initially. But how much allowance should I make? Do I give it time? Or write it off?

OP posts:
realist252 · 05/10/2020 19:19

@OliviaBenson

when we reach the 2 year stage I would like to move to spending an additional weeknight at each other's.

But it's going to take years to even just move in together going at this pace. It shouldn't be this hard.

I'm sorry about your own issues, I think that they are tied up in this and it's very unhealthy.

Does he feel safer because he's keeping you at arms length with 'rules' about how many nights you can see each other etc?

Thank you.

Yes, i suppose it does feel safer because it's more at arm's length. I think I would feel suffocated with someone who was clingy. I like the fact that we are both independent and have lives separate from each other. We don't have 'rules' about how much to see each other, it just became a routine really and I was happy with that too, it's only recently that I've wanted to move it forward.

We do live an hour from each other so it's not so easy to spend lots of weeknights together because of work commitments.

OP posts:
FMSucks · 05/10/2020 19:20

Hi OP,

I recently registered to comment on someone else’s post who was dealing with a similar partner.

I married an avoidant. I am an anxious partner. We were married for 11 years and have 2 DCs.

You were 10 steps ahead of me as I didn’t know there was such a think as avoidants when we were dating. If I’d known then what I know now though.......

I am a shell of the person I used to be. My self esteem has been destroyed and my soul eroded. For the last few years of our marriage I thought I was genuinely going mad and had a near breakdown. He was zero support when the going got tough and the going gets really tough when you bring kids into the mix.

From your comments I get the feeling you will not leave. You are changing who you fundamentally are to meet his needs. This is what I did. You will grow bitter, resentful and very angry over time.

I am out of my marriage over 2.5 years and I am still trying to heal. I’ve spent thousands on counselling, I met an amazing guy who was so easy to be with but I’m still fundamentally broken from my marriage and how I was treated. I will always love this man and I don’t know why. He doesn’t deserve me and until I heal me inside from the hurt and pain of being with an avoidant I will never be able to move on.

I tell you my story as a warning. Perhaps you’re stronger than I was and will be better able to cope. Perhaps he isn’t as bad as my ex and you’ll find a way to rub along together.

I wish you well in whatever you decide and please stay true to yourself x

SBTLove · 05/10/2020 19:22

me trying to understand what is really going on in both my world and his
You do know it doesn’t need to be this much hard work? where the fun, the impulsiveness? the lust?
Analysing, overthinking, questioning, are you not bored of this and exhausted?
There’s millions of ppl out there, go find one easier than this brain drain 🙄

SoulofanAggron · 05/10/2020 19:24

It's just that I crave certainty due to my dad's affairs when I was a teenager.

I honestly don't think this is because you have issues OP. Most women/people want to feel certain about how their partner feels.

I stayed at his this weekend but took myself off shopping for the morning and surprise surprise he wanted to take me out for a walk and to the pub for the afternoon/evening!

My narc ex was like this, made more efforrt when I didn't, and it was a sign he was manipulative, he did what he needed to do to keep me roped in. When he didn't have to, he didn't bother quite as much.

But it IS hard for him. It's not that he isn't nice to me or that he doesn't like spending time with me, it's that he finds adjustment hard.

You don't know this though @realist252 . Either way it's just a way of you letting his behaviour slide because you're into him. Keep the boundaries of what you want and need, rather than acting as if you'll put up wiith anything.

realist252 · 05/10/2020 19:25

@FMSucks

Hi OP,

I recently registered to comment on someone else’s post who was dealing with a similar partner.

I married an avoidant. I am an anxious partner. We were married for 11 years and have 2 DCs.

You were 10 steps ahead of me as I didn’t know there was such a think as avoidants when we were dating. If I’d known then what I know now though.......

I am a shell of the person I used to be. My self esteem has been destroyed and my soul eroded. For the last few years of our marriage I thought I was genuinely going mad and had a near breakdown. He was zero support when the going got tough and the going gets really tough when you bring kids into the mix.

From your comments I get the feeling you will not leave. You are changing who you fundamentally are to meet his needs. This is what I did. You will grow bitter, resentful and very angry over time.

I am out of my marriage over 2.5 years and I am still trying to heal. I’ve spent thousands on counselling, I met an amazing guy who was so easy to be with but I’m still fundamentally broken from my marriage and how I was treated. I will always love this man and I don’t know why. He doesn’t deserve me and until I heal me inside from the hurt and pain of being with an avoidant I will never be able to move on.

I tell you my story as a warning. Perhaps you’re stronger than I was and will be better able to cope. Perhaps he isn’t as bad as my ex and you’ll find a way to rub along together.

I wish you well in whatever you decide and please stay true to yourself x

I am so sorry to hear of your experience.

In what way was your partner no support when the going got tough? My boyfriend has been supportive when I have had difficulties eg disliking my job, health issues etc.

My hope is that we will be able to rub along together. We are both changing to meet each other's needs...isn't that part of what a relationship involves?

OP posts:
realist252 · 05/10/2020 19:30

@SoulofanAggron

It's just that I crave certainty due to my dad's affairs when I was a teenager.

I honestly don't think this is because you have issues OP. Most women/people want to feel certain about how their partner feels.

I stayed at his this weekend but took myself off shopping for the morning and surprise surprise he wanted to take me out for a walk and to the pub for the afternoon/evening!

My narc ex was like this, made more efforrt when I didn't, and it was a sign he was manipulative, he did what he needed to do to keep me roped in. When he didn't have to, he didn't bother quite as much.

But it IS hard for him. It's not that he isn't nice to me or that he doesn't like spending time with me, it's that he finds adjustment hard.

You don't know this though @realist252 . Either way it's just a way of you letting his behaviour slide because you're into him. Keep the boundaries of what you want and need, rather than acting as if you'll put up wiith anything.

The narc comment is an interesting one. I will need to read some more about narc behaviours.

What do you mean about keeping the boundaries of what I want and need? How do I do this? I don't act like I will put up with anything - I have pulled him up on his behaviour before and almost broke up with him in June but things have improved exponentially since then.

OP posts:
Fluffycloudland77 · 05/10/2020 19:32

I think it’s more finding the person you don’t have to change for because they think your the best thing since sliced bread.

BilboBercow · 05/10/2020 19:43

OP this man will never have kids with you. Look at where you are 18 months in.

Sundries · 05/10/2020 19:44

So, you’ve carefully chosen someone who isn’t really available because of his geographical distance, reluctance to spend more time than he deems necessary with you, fear of being crowded and his independence curtailed, his ‘avoidant’ attachment, and his childhood, and by the time you’ve spent two years together, your best hope is that he will agree to you spending another night per week together, on the world’s most tortuously slow path to marriage and children? You need to put in weeks of careful preparation and notice-giving before you even venture to have a conversation about the future, because the slightest deviation from his routine codes for him as entrapment and danger?

OP, you know you’ve chosen this because of your own damage, don’t you?

IncludeWomenInTheSequel · 05/10/2020 19:45

I haven't read all of the posts because it honestly felt like I was going mad.

An avoidant? He's avoiding being with you.

Is that honestly something you think the love of your life should have to work on?

I despair at the threads on here today; so many women putting up with the absolute dregs of society. You'd be better off alone!

SoUtterlyGroundDown · 05/10/2020 19:57

You do know it doesn’t need to be this much hard work? where the fun, the impulsiveness? the lust?

This. I met DH when I was about your age. I remember once in the early days we’d both been out with friends, about 2 hours apart. DH was supposed to be getting the train home after his night but got on a 2 hour train to mine instead (I had just got home from my night out) just because he missed me. There were quite a few occasions like that.
Have you ever seen each other spontaneously just because you miss each other? Or because you’ve been exchanging flirty texts and fancy a shag? Ever spent an extra night together on top of what was planned because you don’t want your time together to end?

FMSucks · 05/10/2020 20:26

@realist252 from pregnancy, to miscarriages, to PND. Anything difficult he could only give so much. Don't get me wrong, I think he loved me as much as HE could love me, but it was not the sort of love I needed. I never felt I could confide in him, I felt I could never really tell him what I needed or be vulnerable with him. We both had difficult childhoods but at some point you have to have enough self awareness to know what you need and want in a relationship.

I thought I could make him happy, that I could give him love and a family and a home. I did all that, I gave him everything I could, he took it willingly and I got very little back. It is exhausting being the one who continuously bends and sacrifices their own needs to meet someone else's. It is so disrespectful to yourself as a person.

After one year dating he could only tell me he liked me, not loved me. I was not allowed to check to ensure he made it somewhere safe if he was travelling, that was his time. I was not allowed to see him on Friday nights as that was his time with his friends. We moved in when HE was ready, we got engaged when HE was ready, we got married when HE was ready. Everything was as per his timeline.

He's not a bad person, we are just fundamentally incompatible together as a couple. I gave the best years of my life to someone who will never and could never meet my needs in a relationship. Please think very carefully and go in with your eyes wide open if you do get married x

LilyLongJohn · 05/10/2020 20:51

I lived on my own op for over 10 years. I'm fiercely independent and love my own space. Yet when I met my now dh I didn't analyse it, I didn't question or have trial periods, I didn't put boundaries in the amount of time I spent with him. I really liked him and then loved him, which meant I wanted to spend time with him. As much as possible in fact.

It's not a fairy tale to want that, it happens in most relationships.

SoulofanAggron · 05/10/2020 21:07

What do you mean about keeping the boundaries of what I want and need? How do I do this? I don't act like I will put up with anything - I have pulled him up on his behaviour before and almost broke up with him in June but things have improved exponentially since then.^

At the moment, you keep making excuses for him and putting up with how he's acting. What you describe isn't an exponential improvement- things aren't progressing enough for your liking. If it isn't enough for you then at some point draw the line. xxx

SBTLove · 05/10/2020 21:14

@realist252
Are you going to ignore everyone telling you this isn’t how a relationship should be, all
this organising and rigidity?
Rub along? that’s bloody depressing to read that this is a life you’d settle for?
You make excuses and label his behaviour, face it he’s not that interested, 18nths in should be fun and loving not like a feckin science experiment.
Folks it’s a waste of time, she’s determined to hang on, she’ll be back 🙄

Saggyoldsofa · 05/10/2020 21:15

Did your mum stay with your dad OP during the affairs?? It's just that you sound so accommodating and I wonder where you have learnt that from.

Also, you have an actual, diagnosed mental health condition that makes it challenging to live with other people. How come it isn't you that is holding back???

The other thing .... being early 30s and having never had a relationship at all. This to me is one of my lines in the sand along with people who have spent e.g. their entire formative years alone (maybe after the fabled first, idealised, love gone wrong)...Every man have met in this position has had very serious issues relating to other people and intimate relationships.

JKRforPM · 05/10/2020 21:29

OP you will save yourself from a lot of heartache if you walk away from this because honestly from what you’ve described this guy just isn’t that into you.

Be with someone who is crazy about you or be single. Because anything in between will end up making you feel like shit and eventually erode your self respect.

Dacquoise · 05/10/2020 21:38

Hi OP, I had the same experience as@FMSucks, married a dismissive avoidant and it was a relentless twenty years of loneliness and the world revolving around his needs. He kept me at arms length on a parallel train track that only went in one direction, his way. By the end I was a shadow of myself.

He couldn't spend more than a couple of hours in my company and buried himself in his work and hobbies because he couldn't tolerate intimacy. Weekends he would be up and out of the house at the crack of dawn. Never got involved in the house, never initiated any joint social life and was a stranger to our child. I wasted my younger years accommodating this behaviour, trying to get scraps of his attention.

When I finally got the courage to let him know I was divorcing him, didn't say a word but handed me a letter days later going on about my mother. Bizarre! When I asked him why he got married he told me he liked having someone at home ie housekeeper, cook, childcare.

As another pp said, work on the reasons why you are tolerating this behaviour, preferably in therapy and move on. He won't change unless he is motivated to which is unlikely if you accommodate him. Why would he?

After much therapy and work on myself I am now with someone that loves my company. My life is completely different. It's not a struggle for attention. It really shouldn't so difficult.

realist252 · 05/10/2020 22:00

@BilboBercow

OP this man will never have kids with you. Look at where you are 18 months in.
Admittedly our relationship has moved slower than most - it is only really within the last few months that we have been vulnerable with each other and let our guards down eg he did not know the extent of my eating issues (I kept them from him because I was afraid of rejection) but he does now and is supportive. I know it seems very slow but I was also happy with that, it is only in the last couple of weeks that I have been wanting more and to progress which is why I brought it up with him.
OP posts:
realist252 · 05/10/2020 22:03

@SoUtterlyGroundDown

You do know it doesn’t need to be this much hard work? where the fun, the impulsiveness? the lust?

This. I met DH when I was about your age. I remember once in the early days we’d both been out with friends, about 2 hours apart. DH was supposed to be getting the train home after his night but got on a 2 hour train to mine instead (I had just got home from my night out) just because he missed me. There were quite a few occasions like that.
Have you ever seen each other spontaneously just because you miss each other? Or because you’ve been exchanging flirty texts and fancy a shag? Ever spent an extra night together on top of what was planned because you don’t want your time together to end?

I personally would find it suffocating if my bf came to mine unannounced because he missed me. He calls me when he misses me and that works for me.

Yes, we have spent longer together than planned in the past just because we wanted to. Interestingly, I actually found this hard to adjust to at the time because it was so spontaneous. It wasn't because I didn't want to spend the extra night with him - I really did - i just had to my head around the fact that I wasn't going to go home and do the things I had planned. I suppose I am quite a planner really whereas he is much more go with the flow.

OP posts:
SoUtterlyGroundDown · 05/10/2020 22:06

Ah sorry I didn’t mean to make out it was unannounced. We’d been texting saying that we missed each other and it was a joint decision.
Anyway sounds like you’re happy... heather or you are all that fussed about spending more time with each other as it interferes with your routines and boundaries so if it works for you then fab.

SoUtterlyGroundDown · 05/10/2020 22:06

That was meant to say ‘neither of you’

realist252 · 05/10/2020 22:07

[quote FMSucks]@realist252 from pregnancy, to miscarriages, to PND. Anything difficult he could only give so much. Don't get me wrong, I think he loved me as much as HE could love me, but it was not the sort of love I needed. I never felt I could confide in him, I felt I could never really tell him what I needed or be vulnerable with him. We both had difficult childhoods but at some point you have to have enough self awareness to know what you need and want in a relationship.

I thought I could make him happy, that I could give him love and a family and a home. I did all that, I gave him everything I could, he took it willingly and I got very little back. It is exhausting being the one who continuously bends and sacrifices their own needs to meet someone else's. It is so disrespectful to yourself as a person.

After one year dating he could only tell me he liked me, not loved me. I was not allowed to check to ensure he made it somewhere safe if he was travelling, that was his time. I was not allowed to see him on Friday nights as that was his time with his friends. We moved in when HE was ready, we got engaged when HE was ready, we got married when HE was ready. Everything was as per his timeline.

He's not a bad person, we are just fundamentally incompatible together as a couple. I gave the best years of my life to someone who will never and could never meet my needs in a relationship. Please think very carefully and go in with your eyes wide open if you do get married x[/quote]
Wow, that sounds so incredibly difficult. I'm sorry you went through that and that your husband was unable to give you all you deserved.

My boyfriend is different in that he is able to tell me that he loves me, no nights are off limits and I can call him whenever I want. In the past if he has arranged to see a friend on x day and I can't do any other day in the week he has cancelled the friend to see me. We have been able to be vulnerable with each other, although this has only really come in the last few months which makes me wonder whether it is time that he (and I ) need.

OP posts:
realist252 · 05/10/2020 22:09

[quote SBTLove]@realist252
Are you going to ignore everyone telling you this isn’t how a relationship should be, all
this organising and rigidity?
Rub along? that’s bloody depressing to read that this is a life you’d settle for?
You make excuses and label his behaviour, face it he’s not that interested, 18nths in should be fun and loving not like a feckin science experiment.
Folks it’s a waste of time, she’s determined to hang on, she’ll be back 🙄[/quote]
I don't know yet, I am digesting everything and I am trying to give a clearer picture of the relationship. Very few things in life are black and white and I may well be hindering things with my over-analysis

OP posts:
realist252 · 05/10/2020 22:12

@Saggyoldsofa

Did your mum stay with your dad OP during the affairs?? It's just that you sound so accommodating and I wonder where you have learnt that from.

Also, you have an actual, diagnosed mental health condition that makes it challenging to live with other people. How come it isn't you that is holding back???

The other thing .... being early 30s and having never had a relationship at all. This to me is one of my lines in the sand along with people who have spent e.g. their entire formative years alone (maybe after the fabled first, idealised, love gone wrong)...Every man have met in this position has had very serious issues relating to other people and intimate relationships.

Yeah she did stay with him...

I am holding back too, and I am definitely partly responsible for the relationship having not progressed further quicker - the slow pace has worked for me and is still working for me. Whilst I want to spend the extra day with him, I am not ready to move in.

He has had relationships, just not 'serious' ones but I do understand your concerns. Having said that, this is my first serious relationship too...

OP posts:
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