Concerns about DW and therapist - am I paranoid?

[StonedRoses]

I’ve posted before about my concerns about the Male therapist has been seeing for the last three years. Let’s call him John. He’s a little unorthodox and the process has lead to my DW going nc with her entire family. I’ve really no idea about whether the memories they have unearthed are correct or not. But that’s a side issue to today

One of my concerns has been the frequency of contact. Often 2-3 times a week. Text and email between and often arranged at short notice. There have been emergency they sit sessions, sometimes meeting at a local park or in the car

This week she told me on Friday at 5pm she had a phone call with John at 6. Then she left the house to make the call from the car, for privacy of course. However she then drove off and come back a couple of hours later.
Again yesterday her scheduled session is Thursday. Mid afternoon she text me to say she has another session straight after work

A friend of mine who can be a bit cynical has said to me ‘are you sure there’s nothing else going on’. And it’s got me thinking. I’m sure there isn’t and I hate feeling paranoid. But even so it does feel like current contact is OTT and rather eating into family time.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse - anything in here ringing bellls?

Yeah, I call BS on this “diagnosis.”

Her Sister is unaware of any of it and the Birthday photo’s were apparently doctored? And the reluctance / refusal to involve the Police or get a second opinion... nah, I don’t believe it. Smacks of the Satanic Abuse crap that some “therapists” bought into (and unfortunately persist in publicising). They made a lot of money out of tearing innocent families apart.

You can’t force your DW to stop seeing John, but you don’t have to keep drinking the koolaid. And definitely stop paying for him. If the funds are coming out of joint Funds or directly from your pocket then it’s time to cut him off.

Perhaps therapist is not keen because this is not the first time his bullshit has been brought to light. None of this is remotely okay. You must know that she would be better off having a stay in a hospital than being in his clutches. (And I do not necessary advocate for hospitals.) This man is VERY dangerous!!! He is fostering dependency and creating an addiction. He is making her feel that she absolutely needs him above everyone else at all times and can’t refuse him regardless of what is going on in her life at any time. Her inability to prioritize her family over his short-notice come-hither messages is very telling. He is terrifying and I think you need to call the police and all professional boards of ethics.

"Police have been discussed. Therapist not keen - and neither is she - because feel it could make her health worse again. No corroboration or evidence, so worries the police may not take it seriously enough. Until three years ago my wife had no idea any of this had occurred to her, and thought she had a normal childhood. With the usual family arguments and problems of course, but nothing even hinting at this"

Oh come on. Of course, the therapist isn't keen. Because the diagnosis is absolute bullshit. That's why there's no evidence of it. That's why your wife had no idea any of this had happened to her. Because it didn't happen to her. I can completely see how memories of an intermittent traumatic experience can be buried but something that allegedly happened over 18 years? And where there is all kinds of evidence to refute it and her sibling had no idea. Surely, your wife is aware that there are millions of abuse survivors who remember the abuse happening. They may not remember every last detail but they didn't need to have buried memories dug out. There are plenty of MN posters who talk about abusive childhoods - these weren't "recovered memories" - these were childhoods which were hellishly difficult as they were being lived. In fact, it makes me angry on behalf of such people that other people who have not suffered in the same way should be claiming to have done so or that therapists should be encouraging them to do so.

But it's very hard to deal with people who have absolutely no interest in the facts. It can also be hard to get people who are suffering an MH issue to see what is in their best interests because they are literally not thinking the way they would be thinking if they didn't have the MH issue (I speak from experience here).

And of course this man is milking your wife and your family funds and wreaking absolute destruction in your family through his manipulation of your wife and has no interest in behaving decently about it. It is so very far from okay in so many way.

Still, as Pater said:
"You can’t force your DW to stop seeing John, but you don’t have to keep drinking the koolaid. And definitely stop paying for him. If the funds are coming out of joint Funds or directly from your pocket then it’s time to cut him off."

This paragraph from the link above might be insightful:

*117]

Patient allegations Edit
The majority of adult testimonials occurred as a result of adults undergoing psychotherapy, in most cases therapy designed to elicit memories of SRA.[48][118] Therapists claimed the pain expressed by the patients, internal consistency of their stories and similarity of allegations by different patients was evidence for SRA, but despite this, the disclosures of patients never resulted in any corroboration;[119] Allegations of alleged victims that were obtained from mental health practitioners lacked verifiable evidence, were anecdotal and involved incidents that were years or decades old.[120] The concern for therapists revolved around the pain of their clients, which is for them more important than the truth of their patients' statements.[99] A sample of 29 patients in a medical clinic reporting SRA found no corroboration of the claims in medical records or in discussion with family members.[121] and a survey of 2,709 American therapists found the majority of allegations of SRA came from only sixteen therapists, suggesting that the determining factor in a patient making allegations of SRA was the therapist's predisposition.[122]*

I would maybe talk to the police - he may already have a complaint against him?

If the professional bodies won’t do anything then the police certainly won’t. Any adult is free to talk about anything to anyone.

Everything I’ve read in the abuse literature says the most important thing is to believe the victim. Which is what I’ve tried to do. The memories have gradually got more extreme and extensive, which is why it’s taken so long

This isn't right. At first I thought affair and John was the cover. But surely the memories of abuse would be a very extreme thing to say and to cover up an affair! She had no idea she was abused for 18 years until she saw him? He doesn't want her to go to the police even though the memories are getting worse? If hundreds or people were involved, I think you put above, there would be many witnesses surely, other victims. Also saying there was no birthday parties, yet there's pictures and he says they are fake. There is something seriously wrong here. You sound like a lovely husband, but you do need to find out about this, perhaps your friend could help you somehow?

I remember at least one previous thread by you, op. I believe there was a consensus that your wife was being manipulated by this "therapist" and he was acting extremely unprofessionally.

From what you've said (on this thread and past ones) that she is seeing the guy, not covering an affair, but she is unhealthily enmeshed with him. She sounds very vulnerable.

Do I remember that you'd asked for a joint session and this was refused? Huge red flag - if he was concerned for your wife's welfare, then he would encourage a joint session so that you could discuss and explore how best to support her.

I wouldn't get too deep into the whole FMS (false memory syndrome) stuff. From my own experience, it's certainly common for survivors to suppress memories of abuse. Equally, it's possible for therapists/counsellors to introduce the concept of abuse to a patient when there hasn't actually been any, and the patient through wanting to please the therapist will "recover" a traumatic memory that actually didn't happen.

But if it did happen, then you're shitting on her recovery. So I totally understand his you feel so conflicted.

How are your DC doing?

My god OP you're not listening! How many people here have told you how unethical this all sounds. Use your common sense. You've spoken to your wife about this and she's happy to keep buying into it so it's time for an ultimatum. She doesn't have to stop therapy, she just needs to stop therapy with John the charlatan.

She's fallen down a rabbit hole and the doctored photos sound frankly ludicrous, which just shows how far in she is. I would raise a complaint with the official body as meeting in car parks and having completely unboundaried therapy is all sorts of wrong, especially with someone so obviously vulnerable. All the usual processes and protocols which are there to protect the therapist as well as the client, are in the rear view mirror.

She'll need support to get over all this, that's how damaging it is.

It involves hundreds of people and yet there is no corroboration? She had evidence of birthday parties and she believes they are staged or doctored photographs. This is ridiculous. You can see that? Would she choose John and her 'therapy' over you?

The professional bodies will do something. Where did you get that from? Just as an example, this is from UKCP:

'UKCP’s Complaints and Conduct Process provides a centralised and transparent process for considering complaints or concerns by members of the public and clients about therapists or UKCP.'

Most reputable bodies will be very interested in hearing about a therapist with no boundaries, who is 'unearthing memories' involving hundreds of people and isolating them from all their family.

Be very careful of what you accuse 'John' of, because the ramifications for his career are immense if you've got this wrong

Given what “John” is up to I think shining a light on this is the only thing you can do.

How long before your wife uncovers memories of you beating her up.

This guy sounds like he is rewriting her history to alienate her from everyone in her life.

You say her MH is getting better yet she seems to need her therapist more than ever.

If she needs him this often any chance of telling her that maybe she needs a new approach as although “John” is the only one to understand her, his methods aren’t working.
Or has this all got into a bit of a habit whereby she had no resilience to anything and anything that goes wrong or an intrusive thought pops into her minds she picks up the phone to John to sort out and John is only too happy to continue taking her £60 per week for years to come.

This is the quote from the email I have received from the professional body

‘The answer to your first question is that generally it isn't possible for someone to submit a complaint with the client's knowledge or consent. The relationship with the therapist is a confidential one which you wouldn't normally be privy to and wouldn't be able to know exactly what has happened, or been said between the therapist and client.’
And
‘The guidance I can provide relates to our members who must abide by our Ethical Framework for the Counselling Professions (please see the attached copy). The Ethical Framework guides our members’ ethical practice, rather than telling them specifically what is acceptable or not within their work as practitioners.’

They have made it very clear they can only investigate if there’s a complaint. And if the client is a competent adult then the complaint has to come from them.
I know the whole things seems ridiculous. But for every ten articles I read saying that this doesn’t occur I find one or two that are clear if does. I’m not a psychologist(!) so finding it very difficult. My wife is now very very clear this happened to her - and I don’t want to disbelieve an abuse victim.

It’s so hard. My original question here was whether she was using John as cover. I don’t think she is. Whether therapy is correct, misguided or wrong I still don’t know and not sure I ever will

This organisation might be able to help you:

bfms.org.uk/what-is-false-memory/

Then the professional body is wrong not to consider a complaint from a concerned family member, especially given what's going on here. He sounds like a barking lunatic. The unearthed memories, sounds like she's lost touch with reality which could be an indicator of any number of mental health conditions. She sounds very gullible.

You need very strict boundaries to work with repressed trauma and sometimes the client simply cannot cope with the memory; which is why it's repressed. It's not always in the client's best interest to trigger repressed memories. The rest just looks like something he's made up to keep her dependent on him, which she evidently is.

OP take a step back here and stop buying into the delusion.

It’s a safeguarding issue. The key word is “generally”. You are being fobbed off by the prof body. However your DW MH is paramount and her safe and gentle transition from her dependency on him due to what looks like coerced false traumatic memories.

Maybe to gain her trust to open up to you - validate all that she says so that you can document the details of her claims and his methods. Once you have enough detail you will have a more consolidated picture to fact check and maybe that’s when you can approach GP / police to decide an appropriate deprograming type process.

What stands out is where is this all going - surely resolution might be to consider exposure to police to stop this happening to lots of other DC.....resistance to this might indicate a subconscious knowledge in your DW that it’s not true.

Think she needs slowly extracting from this but you need expert professional help to ensure it is done appropriately otherwise it could backfire spectacularly.

You are inadvertently in FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) which has trapped you - you are also a victim of this man. If your DW has been the victim of extreme and extensive CSA then she needs experts specifically trained in CSA recovery to help her.

It has of course occurred to me that if these are false allegations then they could be made against me. Which is one reason for treading very softly (and appearing wet). It’s already torn one family apart. Don’t want it to happen to another.
Although at least I would know the back story. Her family have no idea why she has it off contact or what they are accused of. I genuinely think she does believe this - they are not malicious false allegations
And of course I do not know that this is a delusion. Although there’s no proof that it happened there’s equally no proof it’s a false allegation.

It's madness making her so dependent on the therapist she can't function. The whole idea is therapy helps you heal so you move forward.

OP what is the likelihood of any of this being true? Do people come from dysfunctional and abusive backgrounds? Yes. Do people repress traumatic memories? Yes.

Is it likely that her sister doesn't remember 18 years of abuse and is also buying into doctored childhood photos? Is it likely that hundreds of people are involved in this abuse and nothing has come to light in decades? Is it likely that birthday party photos were doctored?

Or is it more likely that this is a man taking advantage of a fragile and vulnerable woman? His process sounds highly unethical OP. It's that combined with the delusional nature of the allegations which make it all ring false.

They have made it very clear they can only investigate if there’s a complaint. And if the client is a competent adult then the complaint has to come from them

What do they mean if the client is a competent adult

Does that mean if they are in therapy for their MH then they could be considered not a competent adult?
In which case they don’t have any complaints.

Are therapists supposed to tell their clients that family photos have been doctored
Maybe I am wrong but I thought therapists are supposed to guide the client not to tell them things like photos have been doctored

Whilst your dw has gone NC with her family could you possibly tell them the reason why and maybe get more support.

I hesitated for a long while before broaching this question, as I was trying to find a sensitive and discreet way to ask it. And I apologise in advance for any offence it causes. You wife said she suffered sexual abuse from birth - would there not be medical implications, physical symptoms, surely doctors would have to be involved at some point in her infancy?

@NancyPickford

I hesitated for a long while before broaching this question, as I was trying to find a sensitive and discreet way to ask it. And I apologise in advance for any offence it causes. You wife said she suffered sexual abuse from birth - would there not be medical implications, physical symptoms, surely doctors would have to be involved at some point in her infancy?

I have had exactly the same thoughts. I’m medical myself and it doesn’t make sense. Some of the abuse she describes would definitely have lead to signs of symptoms or been obvious. Unless the neighbours, school, doctors, social workers and police were all part of it. I know some people have suggested that abusers have infiltrated deep into all aspects of society, although that seems unlikely.

”I know some people have suggested that abusers have infiltrated deep into all aspects of society, although that seems unlikely.”

Unlikely?! It’s batshit crazy.

Have there been social workers involved in abuse at care homes? Yes. Have some Police forces ignored signs of the abuse of in-care children because they’ve been scared of being labelled racist? Yes.

But the idea that there are “covens” of highly organised abusers who’ve infiltrated the Police, the schools, the medical profession and the Judiciary and who conspire together to cover up abuse is sheer tinfoil hat territory.

"And of course I do not know that this is a delusion. Although there’s no proof that it happened there’s equally no proof it’s a false allegation."

This is really tough, OP, because your wife is not in a state to think clearly about the situation because she has been thoroughly worked on by this man and cannot be reached by anyone else. She was vulnerable when she started seeing him and he's made her even more vulnerable.

But you are wrong when you say that there is no proof that it's a false allegation. There is proof - or at least compelling evidence - to contradict these 'memories' (photos of birthday parties which took place; her sister having no memory of such things; the fact that your wife herself had no memory of abuse which allegedly continued for 18 years until this man got hold of her and circumstantial factors such as his unwillingness to have this abuse tested by police investigation and the refusal to have you join a session.). There is equally no evidence of abuse beyond these retrieved 'memories' which the therapist has spent three years coaxing out of her in very dubious circumstances and the "conspiracy theory" type ways of dealing with evidence which contradicts the accounts such as saying photos have been doctored. As you and PP noted above, there would be evidence if the alleged actions took place. And from what I've read of people who have been abused, they certainly remember enough of what has gone on without having been blithely unaware of it until the memories were dragged out through therapy. They remember just how hellish their childhoods were unprompted because they experienced them as hellish at the time.

Have you pressed your wife to see another therapist too? Perhaps in terms that you require her to do this because of the alienation which her current therapist is causing between her and other family members. I mean pushed for it - required it of her - rather than simply suggesting it?