I want to see my friend without her daughter

[CornflakeMum]

Long term friend, pre-Covid used to see her 1-2 times a week. Met up for a coffee or went for a walk together etc. We've known each other for 20+ years!

Her 21 year old daughter ("Lucy") graduated this year and is now back at home looking for jobs. I know her daughter and she'd probably consider me a family friend/godmother-type person. I like her, and we'll chat etc when I see her. She's quite a shy, home-loving sort of girl and probably doesn't know many people at home now.

However whenever I try to organise something with my friend she seems to now automatically bring Lucy too. We invited her and her DH over for an evening BBQ and she texted "is Lucy invited too?"
We arranged to meet for a walk and coffee and she texted me to say they were running late as Lucy was a bit late back from the gym.
If I go over to hers to drop something off and sit in garden for a cup of tea then Lucy will come and join us.
I suggested we go to a local gallery and she said, "I'll just check Lucy is free that day."

As I say, I like her, but it does end up changing the dynamic rather and I miss being about to chat about the things we usually discuss like people we know and what our kids are up to.

Does this seem slightly weird? I'm finding it hard to say "how about just the two of us meet up?" in case she's offended, but it's beginning to feel like an awkward threesome!

@MillyMollyFarmer

Of course. But you said it! I’m sure she thinks of it more as adults hanging out and during a time when her daughter seems to be finding her feet. How long are we talking about? How many occasions? It’s up to you how long you leave it but a few months isn’t much. My daughter hangs out with my friends when she’s around but she isn’t there all the time for anyone to get annoyed.

Or no one's liked to mention it...

@Bluntness100

I do this, my daughter lives away but was recently home for two months after finishing her uni and before starting work, and I assume she is invited with me, because I wanted her there and to get out whenever she could, and she’s known my friends since she was a small child.

Honestly if someone said she wasn’t welcome I’d probably not go rather than say that to her and I would be offended. But then it is rare she’s home like that.

Why do you assume that?

You are changing the whole dynamic of the meet-ups.

I always think that if an outing or meet-up is arranged and people decide to bring along their kid, their DP or another friend without asking everyone else if they mind, that it's extremely rude.

Sounds to me like her daughter might be shy, friendless, and her mum is trying to get her to talk & socialise with other people and get her out of the house. Has the ever mentioned something like this to you?

Some people don't like the intimacy of 2 people catching up together so they will try to drag along a third person to be there. If it's really bothering you, then the friendship isn't really doing much for you anymore is it? It's more like an obligation.

I assume she is invited with me, because I wanted her there one of the most entitled things I’ve read in awhile on here 🙄 no thought for what anyone else wants eh?

Yes we do have girls nights out. The men have boys nights out, My daughter is always invited (she’s th only female child amongst us) with us, the boys with then men. We don’t tend to mix that bit up. We also have a lot of stragglers. Folks we ve known for years.

No I’m not close in age to my daughter, she’s 23 and I’m fifty one. But we have always all socialised there same way, and we have always involved our children, for over two decades now. Since they were tiny, we just don’t think about it. Our children are always welcome.

We don’t though go for coffees or stuff like that. We all work. And live about an hour apart. We are quite boisterous when we are all together, yes. The kids even have playlists and will play some fab eighties songs when they take over the music,

When we talk on the phone it’s not in front of kids, they are not in our what’s app group either. We do have private conversations when in a group but there is very little we don’t discuss in front of the kids. If we did wish to discuss something, we’d seperate off, or do it on the phone.

The only time I can remember seeing one friend seperately in recent years was she wanted to tell me she was divorcing. So we did that without any one present. Generally we are very open in front of our children though.

You are changing the whole dynamic of the meet-ups

Read my posts. I’m not. This is our dynamic.

Oh jolly japes, boisterous and fab 🙄
They are family friends not close or personal and those kinds of gatherings sound cloying.

Maybe it’s different for different cultures / communities etc - Bluntness 100 did you hang out with your own mother and her friends?

My friendship is a very long-standing one which I don't really want to abandon over this. I'm sure I can get a sense of what's going on tomorrow (assuming Lucy doesn't come!)

Her daughter IS a bit socially awkward and immature but also rather intense on her interests, so once she gets talking she does the 'holding court' thing mentioned earlier.
Like I say, I've known her since she was a young child and I've always been friendly and supportive as she is quite 'artsy' and her parents really aren't, so there were times when I felt they didn't really understand her.

I think my friend probably sees me as the 'safe option' to bring her along to. Perhaps she thinks I find her more endearing than I really do . Or perhaps she also finds her intense and hard work and is trying to offload some of the burden .

'I don't think I'm deluded 😆 my DD is a one off she's really sociable and fun and emotionally articulate and tbh my friends probably prefer her to me 😂'

'I assume she is invited with me, because I wanted her there...'

These two posters sound really deluded.

OP- of course it changes the dynamic of a close friendship to have a young adult daughter or son tagging along. Don't people want to discuss personal issues and problems with their friends? I can't imagine my 18 year old wanting to meet up with my friends (she would chat a bit and be polite if they visit the house) nor I with hers.

@Bluntness100 it does sound like your group hang out in quite a different way to many of the rest of us. We have very long-standing friends as well and it is fun to sometimes get together as families for BBQs, watching sport, or to celebrate Easter or someone’s milestone birthday. But our children have their own busy lives now so more often I tend to see my friends without our kids. I generally see my female friends for coffee/lunch/shopping and then on weekends we spend time with male and female friends going to nice restaurants, theatre, concerts, dinner parties, and the like, and we sometimes go away with them for the weekend or a longer holiday. We do drink more than we should but we are all busy and usually have things to do the next day so things tend to wrap up by 1 am or so. I admire you and your friends for your stamina but I left those days behind a long time ago. I love my friends’ children but none of us want them there regularly!

I think there is a massive difference between big groups of mixed ages hanging together as a larger social gathering - that’s just normal and wasn’t the issue the OP presented. It’s having regular one to ones / small group catchups frequently hijacked that is problematic. These times are v precious and emotionally important to me and my friends.

@Sssloou

I think there is a massive difference between big groups of mixed ages hanging together as a larger social gathering - that’s just normal and wasn’t the issue the OP presented. It’s having regular one to ones / small group catchups frequently hijacked that is problematic. These times are v precious and emotionally important to me and my friends.

Completely agree. Friends and family having get togethers and dinners is one thing, and can be lovely.

Assuming any coffee or lunch that a friend arranges automatically includes your child, that you just bring along irrespective of courtesy or respect, or the wishes of your friends, is just crass and obtuse.

I can't think of a single friend of mine that that would do that.

We are respectful of each other and of each other's time, that's the difference.

I would never assume my DD was invited and I wouldn't bring her along. She has her friends and I have mine.

The big group family set up described by Bluntness is different. I have this as well and we all bring the kids/adult kids along...it's not just one of the couples DC coming along.

In my friends/family setting a girls night out is the mums...if we want our DDs to come...we say mums and daughters.

To never socialise without your child seems rather odd to me.

That's very different to 2 friends meeting up and 1 assuming their DD was invited or welcome.

A friend brought her DD (20) along to an outing of about 10 friends...without asking if anyone minded and I was ticked off.

Her DD was socially awkward and she wanted her to come out if her shell...but that's not our job as friends.

I would never assume it was the job of my friends to get my DD to develop social skills.

I was going to ask if these DDs bring their mums when they go out with their friends...assuming they have any of course.

I think my friend probably sees me as the 'safe option' to bring her along to. Perhaps she thinks I find her more endearing than I really do. Or perhaps she also finds her intense and hard work and is trying to offload some of the burden

There could be an element of these factors at play.
I would still try to have an occasional meet up minus the daughter. Your friend might be worried about her and trying to make sure that she has a social life of some sort, I suppose. The daughter might feel comfortable with you, and has no idea that she is being a bit of a pain, to you.

Try the 'we need a good catch up, just the two of us' and see what the reaction is.

It's difficult to do this with Covid, but when the time is right I'd be tempted to say something like "I've bought you and I a ticket to go and see ...." (and ensure it's something Lucy can't easily get a ticket to!

@Bluntness100

I do this, my daughter lives away but was recently home for two months after finishing her uni and before starting work, and I assume she is invited with me, because I wanted her there and to get out whenever she could, and she’s known my friends since she was a small child.

Honestly if someone said she wasn’t welcome I’d probably not go rather than say that to her and I would be offended. But then it is rare she’s home like that.

Have you tried to see this from your friends' point of view?

Good luck for today OP.

i don't think you can say anything.
i can see it could be annoying; the atmosphere is different.
but she will obviously favour her daughter over you, so if you said anything, it could get embarrassing.
i think you just have to accept that this friendship is no longer the same.
we can't expect people to fit in with our preferences, esp where family is concerned. i mean they just won't, so don't stress yourself about it. step back.

Totally understand your frustration OP. She’s 21.....not 12! I get inviting her along occasionally but every time you meet? I’d not bother in future.

It’s like when friends invite their partners or other friends along.... it changes the dynamics.

I wouldn’t say anything as I think some people could be funny but I’d not ask to meet anymore. There’s no point if you can’t speak openly and honestly. What if you had something serious you needing to chat about, example your health? You wouldn’t want to tell the daughter.

@titchy

It sounds like *@Bluntness100* only has what I'd call 'group relationships' with her friends. Everyone is always together in a big loud group. No one ever has small intimate get togethers, girls nights out, two or three mums going to a wine bar. I think those are the sorts of social situations most of us are talking about - and indeed what OP was referring to, and where we'd be horrified to have someone else tag along.

I agree. The dynamic sounds very different with *@Bluntness100* friends.

Most people enjoy 1 to 1’s with the close friends and would find it rude if they kept bringing their adult child. The majority of the posters share that view so I would say it’s very much the norm.

Cornflake
That's good, that you've arranged to meet up for 1:1 catch up tomorrow

If she brings Lucy after that you know you need a blunt word with her . Yanbu

If she doesn't it's the ideal time to say what you want on meet ups...

"it's lovely seeming Lucy but she's your child who's 20 years younger than us and I miss our 1:1 private old girl friend chats being able to talk freely. We can't with Lucy tagging along every time,

• so i want to meet up next time just us
• I want to feel free to invite just 40-50 year olds to my BBQ, you and DH with our friends of same age. "

Meh, maybe I am different but we have all socialised together for years ans are a close knit group. We don’t feel the need for 1:1s. We still chat through private stuff.

We still have phone calls, text most days. When we meet up we still talk about our personal lives, But don’t need to spend time just two of us. 🤷‍♀️

@CornflakeMum please let us know how it goes today. Best of luck!

@Bluntness100 Does it work the other way round too? If your daughter meets up or goes out with a friend or a group of friends, do you assume you are included and go along each time?