I want to see my friend without her daughter

[CornflakeMum]

Long term friend, pre-Covid used to see her 1-2 times a week. Met up for a coffee or went for a walk together etc. We've known each other for 20+ years!

Her 21 year old daughter ("Lucy") graduated this year and is now back at home looking for jobs. I know her daughter and she'd probably consider me a family friend/godmother-type person. I like her, and we'll chat etc when I see her. She's quite a shy, home-loving sort of girl and probably doesn't know many people at home now.

However whenever I try to organise something with my friend she seems to now automatically bring Lucy too. We invited her and her DH over for an evening BBQ and she texted "is Lucy invited too?"
We arranged to meet for a walk and coffee and she texted me to say they were running late as Lucy was a bit late back from the gym.
If I go over to hers to drop something off and sit in garden for a cup of tea then Lucy will come and join us.
I suggested we go to a local gallery and she said, "I'll just check Lucy is free that day."

As I say, I like her, but it does end up changing the dynamic rather and I miss being about to chat about the things we usually discuss like people we know and what our kids are up to.

Does this seem slightly weird? I'm finding it hard to say "how about just the two of us meet up?" in case she's offended, but it's beginning to feel like an awkward threesome!

I think the PP who said that posters who bring their DDs along and claim that their friends don’t mind are deluded - is spot on.

Majority of posters in the OP position have shared their frustration and disappointment and/or tried to give diplomatic approaches to change it.

Even if the friend asks it’s v difficult to say no when put on the spot in a sensitive situation.

So it’s v socially clumsy of the OPs friend.

Moral of the thread - we love our one to ones with our friends - so don’t drag or ask to drag DDs / DM / DH along - even if we say yes.

Is it worth it OP? This friendship where you are anxious and treading on eggshells? Is it fullfilling your needs? I am of an age where I cannot abide any drama or anything that wobbles my status quo so in your shoes I would just back off and if friend rang I would say something like sorry xxx I havent rung as I thought you would be tied up with Lucy and getting her sorted out with job,friends,holidays ,house whatever fits.This is not done to be petulant its just that you were friends and your dynamic has changed and it no longer suits your needs...put like that I sound awful !! But Lucy is a permenant fixture and she might be lovely but you didnt sign up to Lucy ! wouldnt work for me. I liken it to why would you go sit in macdonalds or a soft play area with someones kids if you didnt have any? You wouldnt would you? week in week out? It just wouldnt serve any purpose in doing so. For you to think and feel like you do now your friendship is already fractured...Mum will be incredulous if you say anything and will take it personally that you could feel the way you do and she will take it as a personal affront on
her offspring. I think your right for what its worth that you miss your friend and your time together but if this is how its going to be then maybe you need to let it die a natural ...

I miss being about to chat about the things we usually discuss like people we know and what our kids are up to.
I'd just say this.

I don't think I'm deluded 😆 my DD is a one off she's really sociable and fun and emotionally articulate and tbh my friends probably prefer her to me 😂

@Gilda152

I don't think I'm deluded 😆 my DD is a one off she's really sociable and fun and emotionally articulate and tbh my friends probably prefer her to me 😂

Maybe she is, or maybe that's your parental partiality speaking, but even if she's objectively fabulous, if I arrange to see a friend/s, I simply don't want an eighteen-year-old tagging along because she's 'close' to her mother, and her mother can't understand why not everyone is thrilled to see her.

I'm surprised people do this. I'm a member of an "international" group - local English-speakers. My dd speaks English too, and I've suggested she could come to that occasionally, as there are some people her age. But even that feels a bit of an imposition - I wouldn't want to mention my divorce, for example, or sex/men, with my dd there joining in.

Does anyone also bring their mum/grandad etc. along to meet-ups with friends?

Gilda 152 next time sit back a bit and watch the micro expressions and body language of your middle aged friends as your “one off” teenage daughter holds court - it will tell you all you need to know.

Aren’t you so extra special to have bred such a unique and exceptional child. Wow.

I do wonder whether these daughters tagging along to their mum's get-togethers are equally happy having their mum tag along to their Weatherspoons gathering with their college friends.

@Gilda152 ...some very delusional people here.

Lots of kids are wonderful. My eldest loves chatting with my friends and they enjoy chatting to him. But it is only sometimes or for 5-10 minutes because then we want to chat about our things. And no matter how cool your offspring is, they are not going to want to hear about your friends sex lives or moans about their kids or partners or work etc.

When others children tag along, the other person usually has to make an effort to ensure that they ask them questions and that they are included. A lot of it is polite.

So do everyone a favour and spend time with your kid in your own time. The odd time, fair enough, but otherwise you are basically boring and imposing on your friends.

Ps. We ALL think our kids are interesting and the best and are enthralled by what they say. Even if our friends agree with us, they are just being polite (though I'm sure they think your offspring is perfectly nice)

What @Sakurami said. I think my DS is the most amazing thing to walk on earth, but I know my friends don't!

I wonder if Bluntess is the friend. I find it really weird that you would be offended if they didn’t want your DD there.

My MIL does this with my 20 year old SIL,drives me nuts.

It’s the same as people bringing their DH’s with them everywhere they go.

I had a friend who did this, we used to have a ‘girls’ take away night and she would bring her DH every time. It totally changed the dynamic. It’s not that we didn’t like him, but we just wanted to see our friend on her own!

@DragonPie

I wonder if Bluntess is the friend. I find it really weird that you would be offended if they didn’t want your DD there.

No, I don’t think I’m the friend. And I would be offended because my friends have known my daughter since she was tiny, they are like family to her, so unless they wished to discuss something very private I’d expect her to be included, just as I include their kids when they are home. And I’d expect them to be offended if I said I’d rather your son wasn’t there.

Our kids are part of our social group and we include them. We never ever exclude and would only do so if something private was to be discussed.

The friends I have that think we all want to see their teenage/young 20s DDs all the time are very much in the same mind as @Gilda152 and @Bluntness100 - they are agog to think that anyone would think differently, if they think its right then it must be right sort of thing. Their DDs are like that too! Its as if they are still 5 and showing mummy's friends the new dance they learnt at baby ballet.

I have 2 late teen DDs; they would hate to be with old ladies (as they call me and my over 50s friends) - very rarely I have specially arranged to take DD17 with me by discussing it with friends first, as she has MH issues and needs support sometimes. But otherwise dear god no, I don't want to discuss the menopause and liking Tom Jones with my 19 year old or anyone else's.

Worst one ever was when I had to discuss the breakdown of my marriage with a very dear friend along with her early 20s daughter nodding along and saying "oooo did he?!" every few seconds - and I also have had the "holding court" experience someone mentioned up thread wherein someone starts a topic maybe about cooking or deciding on a new car etc, and the host's 15 year old decides they want to have the floor on that subject for 20 minutes and we all have to laugh and smile politely (baby ballet all over again).

Dishing, wow what a bitchy post. Do you feel better.

We don’t do coffees or shit like that. We do nights at each other’s homes, dinner, far too much booze, dancing, loud music, sitting round the fire pit, well into the wee small hours, like two weeks ago we climbed into our beds at 3.30 am, all nighters are not uncommon, or we go to gigs, musical festivals, comedy shows, hotel nights away, and we always invite our adult kids.

Our children have grown up together and socialise together, they share a room, often a bed, and they drink with us, dance with us, and appear to have a great time. If they don’t wish to attend they don’t need to. They are all early twenties. They bring their partners when with someone, they have also been known to bring their mates. Who all seem to wish to return.

One of the kids, who I was with a couple of weeks ago, not mine, when I said I was having a get together on Oct he said “oh I’ll come and bring my boyfriend”. All good with me.

And in fact For that, three of the kids, are all travelling some considerable distance to join us.

I’ll be sure to tell them and their partners what you think of them and us, that it’s like they are five and we are old ladies and men, as they dance, listen to music and chat shit. 😂😂😂

I don’t understand why an adult would be offended at their adult child not being included by their friends.
Maybe they include because they know you expect it, Id never assume anyone but me was invited unless otherwise stated. I have daughters who fortunately are independent and don’t act like overgrown children needing to be with mummy. It’s just not the norm hence lots of 🙄 here.

[quote CornflakeMum]@Chamomileteaplease - with the BBQ I DID actually say I was thinking of 'adults' only, but it was complicated by the fact that at the time the guidelines were that only six people could meet outdoors (like now I guess!) and we'd already invited another couple too.

Even that evening was weird though as the other friends asked them how Lucy was and my friend said, "yes, she's fine thanks. She would've come tonight, except she couldn't because it's a limit of six and you were coming..."
I know it was strictly true, but it came across as a bit rude!

Maybe I do need to just be a bit more direct and organise things that are obviously just for the two of us![/quote]
That was extremely rude of your friend OP🙄.

I wouldn't dream of just assuming a meet up with a friend would automatically include my daughter, nor would any of my friends either.

I suppose like me they are not short of self awareness or cop on.

Having a teen tag along would utterly change the dynamic of the conversation, it just would.

As a once off, fine, but every time and assuming they were included in a dinner invite...definitely not, just no!

If I invite friends and their children, it's specified, definitely not assumed or asked.

Oh, this has started up again! I thought it had run its course .

The scenario you describe @Bluntness100 is not one I'd imagine ever doing with my kids or friends.
Can I ask, are you quite close in age to your daughter?
IME the people I know who might do that are where they have their children young (teens/20s) so may only be in their 30s themselves with older children?

Anyway, just to update on my original post, I have arranged to meet my friend tomorrow. I suggested a place on the way back from an activity she does on her own (Lucy not with her) and in the opposite direction to where they live. I texted that "I was looking forward to a good old 1-to-1 chat as I didn't feel like I'd seen her on her own for AGES..."
No mention of Lucy so far, so wish me luck!

Sounds like you've hinted as loudly as possible! Good luck

If you haven’t seen your friend much without Lucy recently maybe there is something going on that you don’t know about.
But on a more practical note, maybe every time you see Lucy you could ask her about how the job search is going, if she has made any new friends in the area etc. Make sure you have plenty of ideas and suggestions for her. At best, you might help her find some independence, and there is the potential that your well-meaning interfering might put her off hanging around you so much

Glad you’ve sorted something out. I’d find it strange too.

I met up with a group of friends in the summer and one friend’s 17 yo son tagged along. I’d always thought the son eroded his mother’s boundaries. Totally awkward especially as one of the group wanted to discuss her imploding marriage. It didn’t happen again as someone else asked why on earth he was out with his mum and wasn’t out with his friends.

I don't relate at all, as I said, because my DM and I have an entirely different circle of friends and we only meet up when it's specifically about seeing her. (We're not all that close, so it's an entirely different kind of relationship from the relationship your friend has with her DD, quite clearly.)

I can't imagine wanting to have my own DDs tag along when I see my own friends, but then they're only 11 and 8 right now. I have a close friend who is godmother to DD1, but even there I would want to have a catchup just with her. (We've always enjoyed our pub meet-ups, where it's just the two of us. )

It sounds like @Bluntness100 only has what I'd call 'group relationships' with her friends. Everyone is always together in a big loud group. No one ever has small intimate get togethers, girls nights out, two or three mums going to a wine bar. I think those are the sorts of social situations most of us are talking about - and indeed what OP was referring to, and where we'd be horrified to have someone else tag along.

When I meet my girlfriends for a good old chinwag over a bottle of wine, we often get onto subjects that I definitely wouldn’t want to discuss in front of my children - adult or otherwise. Maybe some people don’t have deep friendships like this because those needs are met by their emotionally incestuous relationships with their daughters instead?