How bad is this? Not so bad? Quite bad?

[Fantasisa]

I feel like I have no perspective anymore on the issues DH and I have.

For background, we are both strong personalities. He thinks all our relationship problems are my fault. I think they are least 50/50.

This week, the kids were upstairs in bed asleep before their first day back at school. Just before we were due to go to bed (so it was v late) we had an argument downstairs about who was supposed to be picking them up from school on their first day - not a loud one - as we had crossed wires about who was scheduled to do it.

He was going out cycling for the day with friends and I was going into work. In the end I said crossly that I'd change my work hours and collect them and then I went off to bed.

He then started sending me screenshots of our messages to 'prove' he was right about me being the one due to collect them. They didn't prove anything, I think it was genuinely crossed wires.

He then comes upstairs and shouts at me so loudly accusing me of having a massive go at him over nothing like I always do apparently, that I'm a fucking nightmare etc etc. I repeatedly told him not to shout and not to wake the children. The children both, of course, woke up. They weren't scared, they are sadly used to us falling out, they were tired. They were both, of course, tired the next day on their first day back at school and I felt so guilty.

How bad is it that he woke up the children with his shouting? He blamed me for getting cross about the arrangements and said I was happy to shout at him - but we were downstairs then and I wouldn't say it was shouting, more cross about the diary issue.

Input welcome.

I can’t imagine that a loud argument downstairs is any less disturbing than one upstairs in most homes.

It sounds like you were both shouty, IME people never see this in themselves just in others.

Neither of you have constructive ways to resolve or stop an argument or dispute. Indeed you are still continuing with it, albeit in a new form. Basically who behaved worse in the argument. The thought of that exhausts me. I can’t imagine living it or living with it.

To move forward you both need to acknowledge your behaviours and interactions are dysfunctional and harmful to your children.

Why are you and he together at all now?.

What other relationship problems do you have?.

Sound travels too so it’s should be of no surprise they woke up.

What do you want to teach your children about relationships and what are they learning here?. Is this really the relationship model you want to be showing them?. Should this become their norm too?

YABTU to allow to your children to endure this environment.

Both of you need to sort your shit out. If its not working, its not working. Neither of you sound like you're doing anything to remedy this situation.

You say your children aren't scared. I can tell you, they probably are and they hate hearing it. They are not used to it and the one thing they most likely wish for, which is for their parents to just stop arguing, you are not providing.

You are their example of relationships in the future. You are what they will hold up as an expectation for what's to come in their own relationships. Do you want that for your children?

And yet, weirdly, your reaction is to come on MN and ask for people to reassure you that he was in the wrong.

It's bad. All bad. He should have cut short his cycling to pick them up since you were at work. He should have accepted it was crossed wires (assuming you did). He shouldn't have brought the argument upstairs and woken up the children.
How about you don't live in the same house anymore and stop exposing your kids to these arguments?

This really isn't the relationship model I want them to have. The disagreement downstairs was definitely not loud - I say that in my OP - but I was definitely cross. I don't really shout. And their bedrooms are not over the living room where we were.

His shouting upstairs was sustained and very loud and it was in our room at me and both of their rooms are adjacent to ours so it woke them both up.

You are right though, about why am I focusing on the who is right and who is wrong about this particular issue rather than focusing on why we live like this.

I think the saddest thing here is that you say your dc are used to you two shouting the odds at each other. That should be a wake up call to you both and a decision as to whether being together is an active choice or just the default.

If you both decide that being together is the right thing then you need to find a way to discuss things like grown adults not petty teenagers.

You are modelling the norms of a relationship to your children - would you be happy for them if this was their marriage?

It is sad, @LeroyJenkinssss.

I dont understand why his cycling is more important than your job?

I dont think children should ever be woken by their parents arguing tbh.

I think both of you are being unreasonable. Theres no reason that should have turned into a shouty argument. But if you were working then really tough shit he needed to pick the DC up.

‘they are sadly used to us falling out’

That is bad.

Unless there is some kind of massive drip feed, he should have done the pickup. Parent working gets priority.

Its all very well to say its sad OP but you are the one exposing them to it?

Its in your power to stop the DC being woken by their parents arguing, you are just chosing not to do anything about it.

You are raising your children in an abusive, scary household, and quite disturbingly you know it, admit it, and yet have done nothing about it. This is shameful. I feel immensely sad for your children. This is going to damage them for life.

I second that. Why is your H’s cycling jolly with mates more important than your income providing job?

Surely even if you’d said you’d pick up and then it transpired that you had work that day, the parent who’s not at work would adjust their schedule to do school pick up.

Your H sounds unbearable.

I feel sad for your children. This will screw up their life chances.

Come on op. You two need to learn to live together peacefully, or you need to call time so that your kids at least have half a chance of having happy relationships as adults.

I grew up against a background of constant arguments between my parents, usually about trivial issues. I hated it. Left home as soon as I could. Eventually I managed to put it behind me and make a successful relationship with my DW which has now lasted 30 years. But my sister never got over it, never formed an LTR because she was afraid she would end up in the same situation as our parents. Very sad.

Don't inflict that on your kids, if you can't live together then live separately. Everyone will be happier, especially your DC.

When I was young my parents argued and I mean argued. I used to listen to them from my bed and wonder what was going to happen to them... would they stay together? I can tell you now I affected me deeply.
Whether you believe it or not this is affecting your children and affecting their relationships they will have in the future.

I get that. I'm not really sure what I would do differently about this situation even with hindsight. The mix up about collection was discovered - we both thought it was the other person who got it wrong - I felt very strongly that I had to be in work and the mix up was very stressful and because there was an impasse I had to offer to be the one to find the solution.

Wouldn't other couples argue about that? The issue is surely the shouting and waking up of the children?

Yeah what pp said. Why is cycling more important than your job?!

I'm not saying we won't split up btw, this is exactly why I'm discussing it here. I want to get handle on what is normal/acceptable. I KNOW the waking of the children is not acceptable. I guess I'm trying to understand whether what triggered it is also unacceptable.

The issue is surely the shouting and waking up of the children?

The issue is that your children are being abused and you are doing nothing about it.

DH not going cycling was never even mentioned by me, it simply wouldn't be an option. I think that is why I was cross - it was a mix up that I was going to have to fix somehow - with a help from a friend perhaps - that was going to affect my work if I didn't.

What a shit Dad, shouting and waking up his DC.
What a shit partner, putting his cycling before your job.
What a horrible man.

Look @Aquamarine1029 berating me isn't going to achieve anything and it won't help me get the clarity I need on the situation. I've started a thread exactly because I'm concerned about the impact on them.

I wasn't berating you. I stated a fact.