How bad is this? Not so bad? Quite bad?

[Fantasisa]

I feel like I have no perspective anymore on the issues DH and I have.

For background, we are both strong personalities. He thinks all our relationship problems are my fault. I think they are least 50/50.

This week, the kids were upstairs in bed asleep before their first day back at school. Just before we were due to go to bed (so it was v late) we had an argument downstairs about who was supposed to be picking them up from school on their first day - not a loud one - as we had crossed wires about who was scheduled to do it.

He was going out cycling for the day with friends and I was going into work. In the end I said crossly that I'd change my work hours and collect them and then I went off to bed.

He then started sending me screenshots of our messages to 'prove' he was right about me being the one due to collect them. They didn't prove anything, I think it was genuinely crossed wires.

He then comes upstairs and shouts at me so loudly accusing me of having a massive go at him over nothing like I always do apparently, that I'm a fucking nightmare etc etc. I repeatedly told him not to shout and not to wake the children. The children both, of course, woke up. They weren't scared, they are sadly used to us falling out, they were tired. They were both, of course, tired the next day on their first day back at school and I felt so guilty.

How bad is it that he woke up the children with his shouting? He blamed me for getting cross about the arrangements and said I was happy to shout at him - but we were downstairs then and I wouldn't say it was shouting, more cross about the diary issue.

Input welcome.

What do you mean, by copying my DM, @Zaphodsotherhead?

If I'd asked him that, he'd have just said that was the arrangement, he hadn't said x, y, z and wouldn't simply ignore my question about about why cycling trumps work. In short, he'd move the goalposts.

I think Zaphodsotherhead is perhaps making the point that because your DM did absolutely everything your father asks your pushing back isnt really pushing back at all. Just not doing everything

The power dynamic in your relationship is toxic and off.

In most normal loving relationships it wouldn't have been up for discussion that his cycling would be the thing to go over your work.

You haven't explained why you think it's reasonable that cycling trumps work. And why it was up to you to find a solution.

Had the cycling trip been a long arranged event that he had taken time off work for? Is it something he does often or infrequently? Is he normally hands on both practically and in terms of the mental load?

I used to listen to my parents argue every night. It wasn't pleasant.

It sounds like, from what you’ve said, the shouting happens because neither of you feels heard. So he comes into your room (wrongly, in my opinion) to carry the row on, or sends you screenshots to prove a point, he is doing it because he wants to be heard and wants to be right.

Couple counselling might help? But would only work if you both want to be there, and they probably won’t delve into individual fights, rather they will give you the tools to get along better.

I think if someone is of the mindset that a hobby comes before work or collecting their dc from school then counselling is hardly going to help.
The counsellor would need to be frank and to the point with them. Most counsellors aren’t like this.

The dynamic is definitely off, that is for sure.

I can't really offer more detail on the specifics of the argument as it might be outing but the gist is what I have included in here.

I dont think the specifics actually matter because the key is YOU are the one who backs down, YOU are the one who sorts everything and YOU are the one who takes the hit.

Never him. For something that is a hobby not your job.

Just because you push back more than your mother doesnt make this a healthy or normal relationship. Quite the opposite because you are clearly deeply unhappy and as a offshoot of this creating a toxic environment for your children

I will differ slightly here. Most couples I know. In fact all, have had shouty arguments that kids have witnessed. It happens. The issue is if it’s a rare occurance or a regular one. If it’s relatively rare and you apologise, make up, tell the kids sorrry you both behaved badly etc it’s fine.

If you do it constantly then it’s not an acceptable environment for kids. But as a rare occurance it’s fine.

Job trumps going for a bike ride.

These sorts of bullshit, artificial, intentionally picked arguments are classic in men who've checked out of a relationship but want to be the "good guy", so try to find a way to make it their wife's fault.

Is he that guy, do you think?

VERY bad that they’re used to you both shouting at each other and to be honest, if one of your children told me this at school for instance, I would be recording this with regard to safeguarding.
It’s very bad.