Dw and I decided last night not to have any dc. Heartbroken.

[MalbecLARGE]

Hi,

Just that really. Both women, so need a donor to have a baby, but finally came to the decision last night that we can't do it. We just can't get our heads around the fact that half of our dc genetics will be from a stranger, essentially. I would feel so much guilt and worry. Not that I'm against it generally, I just don't think we can get past that.

We have tried to get our heads around it, but we just can't and last night, I think we drew a line under it and today I feel like hiding in our room and crying.

I already have a dc from a previous relationship and so, I'm lucky to have them and my dw loves them to pieces. Over the past couple of years though, we were desperate to extend our family and it was just a matter of when really. Then we hit a wall and apparently we can't get round or over it.

We can be happy, just us 3, but I know I will always wonder...what if?

I was a young mum and so yes, on the up side we'll have our freedom back early etc, but we did want more dc so much. If only a miracle could happen! But it can't and so I think we now need to make peace with the fact that this is it.

Not sure why I'm posting. Maybe for a bit of support or advice on how to move forward.

Thank you.

@minimike, I didn't "abandon straightness and adopt gayness". I am bisexual and fell in love with a person who happened to be a woman. The reasons are the same as why anyone else would fall for someone. I'm not sure what you mean by "was it comfort and support?" I don't see this any differently to if I had met and fell in love with an infertile man and we both wanted children. I wouldn't leave that man because of it, if I loved and was completely committed to them, so why would I leave dw?

Maybe some people think that because I am bisexual, I have that choice, but it is actually quite an offensive misconception about bisexuals generally, because when you make a commitment to someone in any relationship, gay or straight, you've made that commitment. You want to be with them and only them. If a woman in a straight relationship was married to a man who was absolutely lovely, who she completely adored and everything was perfect apart from the fact he was infertile, would you suggest she leaves that man for another man? Just so she can have a baby?

What I find quite alarming about @minimike's post is that they clearly think that it is a kind and supportive message and have no idea that they have been very offensive and biphobic.

Minimike. Wow. just wow.

@EmilySpinach, I'm quite used to it unfortunately.

Might this disappointment make re-adopting a straight life style a possibility. In the hope that; Man + woman + commitment = child = family

God Almighty.

Sometimes decisions are made with the head and sometimes the heart. Doesn’t make it any easier.

Can you revisit the topic after you’ve given it time to settle?

@EmilySpinach

What I find quite alarming about *@minimike*'s post is that they clearly think that it is a kind and supportive message and have no idea that they have been very offensive and biphobic.

That’s a generous interpretation! I don’t think she was intending to be either kind or supportive.

I think she’s a straight up homophobic bigot who is two steps from implying op is only with a woman because either a) she couldn’t ‘get’ a man or b) she was traumatised and sought comfort in a platonic womanly embrace.

If she wasn’t intending to be offensive then she must just be exceptionally stupid.

I did ask her though - on the off chance she is just very dim. She didn’t reply so I guess she intended to be offensive.

[quote MalbecLARGE]@EmilySpinach, I'm quite used to it unfortunately.[/quote]
Ditto.

Another reason we decided not to have kids. There are still people like this all around us and we couldn’t bear the thought of exposing our children to them.

Well, there are no guarantees in life and whilst I know that it is preferable for a child to have its parents happy and in their lives, it often isn't the case. My eldest has a different father who he considers his father. He does have contact with his bio father but is more like a big brother, I'd say and it is only recent.

One of my friend's fathers left when she was a toddler and the man who brought her up, her step father is the person she is closest to in the whole world. She struggles to get on with her mother and he acts like a buffer between them.

I am in my 40s and have many friends whose fathers abandoned them, who were adopted, who had toxic relationships with their parent/s and I would say the ones who have really suffered, were the ones with toxic parents. The ones who were adopted were curious, a couple met or have corresponded with their bio mums but really, their adopted parents were 100% their parents and they are all happy to be alive and most are happy with their own families (except one who is single and can't have children).

@Mmn654123, I'm sorry you can relate. It is incredibly sad that some people still think like this.

"Well, there are no guarantees in life and whilst I know that it is preferable for a child to have its parents happy and in their lives, it often isn't the case."

This. Perhaps I'm being thick or insensitive or both but it seems to me that you are allowing agonising about what your future child may feel about its unorthodox beginning to prevent that child from existing at all.

Because that's the upshot: your child can exist and maybe struggle a bit with its unorthodox beginning (but, you know, while they may have some curiosity about their male biological parent, they won't necessarily agonise about it) or your child doesn't get to exist at all. How could the latter be preferable to your child? I think you would have to f*ck things up spectacularly badly for your child to conclude they would rather never have existed than have been born as a result of sperm donation.

I think it’s really kind of you to think about it from the dc’s perspective. I don’t always see that happening.

I had an absent father and I’m throughly fucked up. Realise I’m just one person of course.

@Dery, I get what you're saying, but then a couple of days ago I read that it was quite common for donor dc to be asked if they would rather not exist, when struggling with their identity and that they actually find it very upsetting and frustrating. This was always something my dw would say when we were trying to weigh things up and I saw her point, but after we both read that, it made us pause and re think.

OP do bear in mind that a lot of the donor conceived people you are reading about are the product of a straight couple where the father's sperm isn't working and so a donor is sought. Sometimes in these families (especially in the past) the children would not be told that they were conceived via donor sperm so it's a very different experience to two women having a child who of course will be more open with the child! I imagine it's very upsetting to suddenly find out later in life that your father is not your genetic father and would colour your view of sperm donation altogether. But if you are open and honest with your child from the word go that should lessen any problems. Please do seek out experiences from LGBT couples as well as looking at experiences of local anti-donor conception people

*vocal anti donor conception people!

My friends (2 females) got around this by one of their brothers donating, the master plan is the other ones brother will donate in a years time (first is pregnant currently) so both spouses will have a genetic child with the other partners brother. This obviously relied upon them both having willing brothers!

@MalbecLARGE - yes, I see that and it probably was rather insensitive of me. You have to do what feels right to you. But for me the point still stands. We are friends with a female couple who have used an unknown 'third party' sperm donor for both of their children, my husband was himself a sperm donor in his younger days and plenty of people rely on third party sperm donation for various reasons so I suppose I just don't see it as being objectionable in itself where the alternative is no child.

"Please do seek out experiences from LGBT couples as well as looking at experiences of local anti-donor conception people"

And this.

Some really thoughtful responses on here.

In terms of outcomes, the key difference between the angry/messed up people and the well-adjusted people - coming out of any parenting experience - is how well the parents/carers supported the child's sense of identity and understanding of their life story. Growing up with a sense of shame, loss, wrongness etc will foster feelings of detachment, defensiveness, insecurity and anger. Growing up in exactly the same family set-up but a sense of completeness, acceptance, openess and confidence, will foster the opposite. So a huge amount of your decision is really about whether you feel you can support a child to build an authentic identity within a donor-conceived 2 mums life story.

Just in case yet another personal perspective is useful, here's mine. 2 DC, one donor egg/DH's sperm, and one adopted. So I'm not genetically related to either of my children although I did carry one.

I can tell you that for me, the agony of weighing the what-ifs before they arrived, especially from the scarcity perspective that I was in, was a billion times worse than anything that's happened since. In both cases, I had massive misgivings along similar lines as yours. In both cases, they were trumped by what you describe as that 'stab of longing' plus the certainty that we would function better as a family of 4. And in both cases, the lingering doubts were completely trumped by the complex and very immediate reality of my relationship with a real human rather than an imaginary one.

Which isn't to say I'm ignoring the original issues.

Dc1 is approaching 10. He's known from the start about his egg donor, and we've used Donor Conception Network books etc throughout. He thinks of his donor as a distant relative he hadn't met - someone in the family but not particularly relevant. I can count on one hand the number of times he's asked about her. Occasionally I throw in something about her just to keep it in the scope of normality.

DC2 is much younger and happily chats about her adoption. Again, we have books and support from Adoption UK to help. It's obviously a much more complicated story but I'm hoping being open now will stand her in good stead when she needs help or wants to explore further.

They are both utterly mine and the lack of genetic link is something I don't consider from one year to the next.

I know this simplicity and openess might change as they get older but I think we've built an environment where it's OK to be curious, and they're confident owners of their identities.

Good luck with your decision - somehow I don't think it's final yet!

Might this disappointment make re-adopting a straight life style a possibility. In the hope that; Man + woman + commitment = child = family

Dear lord. Yes this view is horrific and yet I think it's how a lot of bisexual, and possibly some of those who are really lesbian but conformist for one reason or another and also aware they really want children, women fall into heterosexual relationships.

I have a lot of bisexual friends who were always with women when they were younger but 'suddenly' into men in their late 20's, early 30's, and had a child. Later they split and now the women are back with women.

Whatever our sexuality our biology is pretty damn powerful.

To be utterly crude imagine a straight woman 'adopting' licking pussy? Or a straight man sucking cock?

Please god are we not past the 'lifestyle choice' shit?

I know what's been niggling me about this. It seems to me that at some level there is an implication that a child born as a result of third party sperm donation is somehow 'less than' and it's better not to have such a child than have the child and raise them sensitively and supporting their sense of identity and life story. @OneMoreForExtra has given a beautiful account of how this can be done.

thanks Dery

For us it was about whether we trusted that straight parents around us, in our families and in school and in our wider community, as well as teachers and others, could be trusted not to say things that would damage a tiny person because we are lesbians and they feel uncomfortable about that. We concluded we couldn’t trust them. We felt they would ask inappropriate questions and talk about us where their own children can hear. And we aren’t confident we can counteract the damage they would do just by having great support at home. We considered one of us becoming a teacher to try and protect them.

In the end we decided our desire for a child doesn’t outweigh the mental well being of that child.

I think op is being selfless and I understand why.

Listening to many on this thread is like listening to lots of white folk telling someone their mixed race marriage won’t cause them any problems. With a few exceptions. Meant kindly, but most of you don’t understand.

Well, you have to do what feels right to you but it does worry me that people are making decisions based on the fear of how bigoted people around them might react. It is 2020. I'm in a heterosexual partnership so it's true I don't know what it's like to be in a gay partnership, though my partner is Arab , so - to respond to your example - we are mixed race.