Does anyone else end up being the "leader" in the family/have a DH that just isn't interested in anything

[Oshywoshy]

I feel really bad about posting this because DH is so lovely. He is the kindest man, brilliant with the kids, we are 50/50 with housework, he really pulls his weight around the house, works hard. I love him so much, but as he's got older, and after we've had our second child, this has really started to get to me

He doesn't seem to have any hobbies or interests anymore. I totally get this is a double edged sword, after reading "his hobby" posts on MN, but he's like the opposite of the obsessed cyclists. I have bought him equipment for a hobby he used to do which he said he wanted to start up again, he expressed interest in learning to play guitar so I bought him one as a present, that sort of thing - it just gathers dust in the corner. The only thing he does in the evening is sit on the sofa Googling information about a band he likes/recent movie releases. That's his hobby I suppose.

He never suggests we go anywhere - it's always me. He will do his share of the work in organising a day out - organising the picnic, getting the children ready - but it's always me saying "let's do X this weekend", booking the activity, researching the activity - and to be honest although he enjoys himself when out, he'd be just as happy when at home. Last week a local forest Park was doing free entry. I found this out on the Thursday and said "oh let's go this Saturday" and he just looked stunned and went "THIS Saturday?" as if three days was nowhere near enough time to prepare for a 10 mile trip to a forest for a walk.

He doesn't drive either-this hasn't entirely been his fault. I do, and to be honest it's been fine for most of our time together, but this last while I've been asking him to look into it again and he hasn't.

His job is OK but not great- he has been talking about doing something else for years but has made zero effort.

He has always had problems with sex- a medical issue had made it difficult for him at times, but he just doesn't seem to be bothered about it. There are things he could do to help but he doesn't. I talk to him about it and he is apologetic and feels awful, things improve for a while, then it's back to the usual. He rarely initiates. He is more than happy to spend lots of time making sure I am taken care of sexually, will spend ages focusing on me in ways that aren't PIV basically, but it's not spontaneous on his part, he rarely initiates and never, you know, grabs me for a good shag. He genuinely is happy to bring me pleasure, but I basically feel like I have to submit a written request rather than it starting organically.

I feel like I'm being horrible about him, when he is the loveliest man and I adore him. It just feels like there's something missing, a certain amount of "go" - but yet it's not quite that either, because he is far from lazy and when for instance we bought our house, he dealt with most of that as I was pregnant and highly stressed at the time.

I just feel that there's something about him that either is missing or that I'm missing. He does get quite anxious, and his family are a bit odd - they don't really do anything either,but yet they used to when he was a child- they were deeply involved in a local sports team, travelled all round with it. He barely remembers his childhood though - that's another thing, his memory is shocking. He is intelligent and university educated, but seems to have so little curiosity about the world and never wants to do anything different. If it wasn't for me, I don't think he'd do anything but go to work and come home.

I suppose I'm finding it difficult because as he gets older it becomes more marked and I have noticed a slight resistance creeping in (reaction to the forest Park) whereas before he'd just go along with the plans happily but wouldn't suggest them himself. Also as we've had a family, sometimes I'm emotionally drained and would just like him to go "right, hop in the car, we're going to X place and will stop off at Y for food on the way back" but covid aside I don't think this will ever happen.

Can anyone relate to this? It's really hard to describe, and I know I sound like a princess, but it really is starting to impact on how I feel

He's not an entertainment device for the OP and she's free to to explore some of her own hobbies and interests without him or with friends.

He certainly isn't an entertainment device. He never goes anywhere, does anything, takes the children anywhere unless the OP suggests and plans it, complains about the time and 'hassle' of one child having a once a week, one hour hobby five minutes' walk away, and is startled and appalled by her suggestion that they take the children to a forest park with three days' notice. He's checked out of life outside the sofa.

Darkmilkaddict it's fine, I know what it's like when you see someone starting off down a road you've travelled - I've noticed that sex issues alone usually get a resounding LTB on MN so I'm glad I've had a variety of nuanced replies.

The masculinity/father issues is familiar - I'm not sure where to begin unpicking it all, but DH definitely has some issues there - FIL is very practical and had a man's man sort of job, DH not so much. Also there's a lot of criticism and not a lot of praise with my in laws. They're good people but an odd bunch,quite emotionally stunted I think. DH I think was put into a bit of a "the sensitive clever one" role by them, and once they put you in a role you're in it forever despise all evidence to the contrary

It sounds like he's not typically 'male' enough for you in many ways: initiating sex, desiring you sexually, being able to drive, being 'manly' and decisive and opinionated. Instead he has more what we think of as typically feminine traits: doing his fair share of childcare and housework, being amenable, being submissive (?).

It's a hard balance to strike, isn't it? Most women want a man who will do his share of the shit work, who will parent his dc, who will desire them and be able to shag all night, but who won't sulk when he is rejected and will cuddle.

Can you talk to him about his lack of input into what you do as a family? Get him to suggest more days out, so you don't feel you're doing everything?

It does sound as though this is his personality, though, so I'm not sure how much he will change.

I had to sit and have a think about that, tenlittlecygnets, because it took me by suprise - I've never ever been into very masculine men - the rugby player type leaves me cold. It was all about sensitive musicians when I was a teen so I had to sit and have a think over whether or not I'd internalised expectations of masculinity and was getting cross at DH because he wasn't measuring up.

I think, because of the sex thing, that may indeed be a small part of it, but overall I don't think it's his masculinity that I feel is falling short: it's his competency. The things you've listed - initiating sex, driving, being decisive - are all things I see as adult skills, things that I would expect of any adult, myself included. An adult, to me, should be able to hold different opinions and ideas, think about them, and act on them accordingly, they should be fairly comfortable and confident in sexual relationships and able to state their preferences and discuss sex in an adult manner (and I really do just mean a basic level of sexual confidence, not cocky Casanova levels) they should be able to take responsibility for how they get from A to B and they should make some attempt to control their direction in life rather than float on the current while other people steer the boat. To me these are life skills and signs of a competent adult, who may not always need to take charge, but who can certainly do so if needed. I find that an attractive quality in both men and women.

I think what frustrates me about DH is that he is perfectly capable of this level of competency - I've seen him do it when he has to, for instance when I was ill - but he must on some level choose not to on a day to day basis, because he is content to drift and let me do the work 95% of the time.

I think what frustrates me about DH is that he is perfectly capable of this level of competency - I've seen him do it when he has to, for instance when I was ill - but he must on some level choose not to on a day to day basis, because he is content to drift and let me do the work 95% of the time

I agree, that’s why you need to reorganise responsibilities so they are actually 50:50 and not 95:5. However you decide to do that.

I’m surprised you still fancy him TBH. I’m angry and resentful on your behalf just reading about him.

I am coming from a completely different viewpoint from you but I see "adult skills" as..

Working to pay for bills and food
Being kind and listening to others
Having good parenting skills
Being capable to take over in an emergency
Knowing how to cook and clean
Trying to help your partner through difficult times
Know what and who to prioritise in life

I have a child with a serious long term chronic disease that I've managed for her whole childhood but I only learned to drive two years ago, I have a whole range of adult skills that most people don't have but I have been judged by my friends for not driving ( I take it with a pinch of salt as I know what my priorities are ) .

I'm just trying to say that everyone has different expectations of adult responsibilities and honestly, I think your husband sounds pretty adult. He's took over in your pregnancy and illness? He prioritises his family over hobbies? He's always worked and does equal amounts of housework? He's present as a father?

I know there's issues and obviously you have reasons to be unhappy. Perfectly valid ones. I often think my husband must be sick of me , he would be happier with someone who is more suited to his personality. It can be hard being the partner who is always chivvied along as well, some days I feel I just want to be left alone to potter as I want to. But we love each other and we choose this relationship over anything else. As you do. It comes back to one issue at a time, compromise and talking.

I totally understand op, you could have been talking about the relationship between h and I.
I carried 95% of the load, diy, gardening, childcare, driving, shopping, days out, activities for dc etc.
When I suffered a trauma he had no idea I needed support, despite seeing me sobbing on the kitchen floor. I lost any remaining respect for him and eventually we separated after a further year of little communication. I am sad as its not what you plan for but it's definitely no harder without him here.

I hope you can turn it round before you start losing respect for him. Try counselling and maybe asking him to be in charge of specific things.

Making plans is tiring.

My partner sounds quite similar to yours.

We would never go on holiday if I didn't organise it
We would never go out!

I'd love a partner who had more ideas and got excited about things in the same way as me.

But similarly, my DP is great in many other ways.

Oshywoshy, there is a crossover between masculine traits and adult competency. I think you need to work out what you want your h to improve and talk to him about what YOU want.

But if he can do the things, then why is he only doing the things when he has to?? Because he's lazy? Because that's not great either.

Sounds like he has an anxiety disorder like 'generalised anxiety disorder' for example.

OP

Have you spoken to your DH about this? Have you pointed out that all the organising, motivating etc comes from you and never him? Have you asked him if he’s content to spend all evening, every evening, sitting watching telly? Or to spend every weekend at home? If so, what does he say?

We have spoken about it, but not for a while and not so in depth as I have here. To be honest we seem to end up being side tracked by the sex issue.

It's quite difficult to know how to bring it up with DH as he doesn't take criticism very well, in that he automatically thinks I'm attacking him and gets upset. And really, it's hard to know how to phrase the issue so it doesn't sound like I'm having a go.

Mostly I've tried to do it in little bits, and I'll try to encourage rather than criticise - so if he talks about something he wants to do, I'll encourage that, suggest a time he could do it, say how I think he'd be really good at doing that thing, etc etc.

Or else with the driving, I found information about an intensive course and said "look, isn't this a good idea, why don't you give them a ring" and we had a chat about how he needs to be driving in the next year because once our toddler gets to nursery/school age it'll be harder for me to do all the running.

Then this weekend I did mention (when I was driving) how I was looking forward to being a passenger again sometimes, because I never get to look out of the window at the scenery.

He always agrees with me and joins in the with the discussion, but then nothing ever comes of it. I think in his head he's "going to do it", so if I keep reminding him he will get annoyed, but the simple fact is that his time frame for "doing the thing" eg phoning up, is basically years, whereas mine is "in the next few days/week". But if I say something like "you haven't phoned X yet" he'll say "we only discussed this the other day! I'm going to do it soon!" when in fact we discussed it weeks ago and I haven't mentioned it since. He's had to book a follow up appointment for his health issue for months now - I know obviously covid has put a hold on things but even from before that.

I think the challenge is to maintain respect and desire for him over the long term.

Also of the two major things that finished off my marriage were: me doing everything because he wouldn’t then him feeling emasculated and convinced I deserved someone ’better’, and me habitually imagining how much happier I’d be with someone less passive.

There’s a point after which it’s just not salvageable.

The key factor is how he reacts when you talk about it, is he motivated to step up or does he just get defensive and sad

Cross-post OP. You write about it so fluently

But also OP, wearing you can’t just say “learn to fucking drive already !’l 😀

I wish there was an obvious answer to this but I don’t know what it would be.

For xh, weirdly, after his (frightening, estranged) father died he felt kind of liberated to step into ‘grown up shoes’. I think for him, nothing less than intensive counselling could’ve changed him into a confident proactive person

It does sound like anxiety with the driving. Has he a reason to feel nervous with driving? My son has his license but hasn't actually used it yet in the last couple of years because he's nervous, I have a friend like that as well. Could you maybe suggest something like kalms before his first lesson? it helped me when I was learning to drive. Once I started the lessons I loved it though. Sometimes the starting can be the hardest part. Does he have his provisional?

I think the challenge is to maintain respect and desire for him over the long term.

Also of the two major things that finished off my marriage were: me doing everything because he wouldn’t then him feeling emasculated and convinced I deserved someone ’better’, and me habitually imagining how much happier I’d be with someone less passive.

There’s a point after which it’s just not salvageable.

This is exactly what killed the marriage of someone I know. Ironically (or maybe not?) it was the passive, do-nothing sofa-bound man and not his exhausted-from-carrying-everything wife who initiated the divorce, and honestly, while in many ways he's a lovely guy, I think a large part of the appeal of being divorced was that for 50% of the week, he would get to live his ideal life -- literally going to work, coming home, going straight to the sofa and remote control, stopping only for a meal and bedtime, because that is his stress-free comfort zone

And I also notice his passivity creeping in with regard to the children post-divorce. He's a loving father, but when the children are with him they literally do nothing apart from computer games none of them ever leave the house apart from school/work, even at weekends and their time living with him, originally 50%, seems to have slipped to more like 20/25%. So his ex-wife is still basically carrying the can.

He was also someone who was happy to his fair share of housework, and he was a good cook, but it was fairly clear that he used these as alibis for not leaving the house eg 'Oh, I can't take X to his whatever lesson because I'm making dinner' or 'Saturday mornings are when I do the laundry, so we can't go to the park then.'

His wife once said to me in frustration that if it hadn't been for her the children would never have learned basic life skills like to ride a bike or swim, because their father would consider it 'too much hassle'.

Your DH sounds a lot like my Dad (and his sister), although he can drive. He went to Uni, qualified in a well paid profession and travelled the world through work, but was and still is very passive. His parents pushed him to qualify in the profession and the company he worked for organised the travel, with my DM doing all the “domestic” organisation.

He’s content to go along with the things that my DM organises, but if she wasn’t in his life I doubt he’d regularly travel further than the local town, doing his little set routine of shops he visits (exactly like my aunt) and he’d be happy enough with that.

I don’t think there’s anything you can do that will change how your DH interacts with the world, OP. You either have to accept that tactical victories are all that’s possible (Eg you’ll have to organise the intensive course, which he’ll do if you book it in) and that all his good points add up to a decent marriage, OR start looking for someone with a different balance-sheet of pros and cons.

It sounds like maybe he is depressed or have issues with anxiety perhaps? That would explain his lack of motivation for things or it could just be his personality of course. Has he always been this way?

I understand it must be frustrating to have discussed this all before with him but for it to not really go anywhere. Maybe you need to say that to him? And say that you feel there is something else going on with him and that you are worried about him. Explain that you don’t want to feel like the one who has to make every decision and initiate everything and why that’s important to you and see what he says

It is not unusual for partners to take on different roles within the family. I was the organiser (holidays, days out house moves etc.) - my OH did the gardening and the DIY and anything requiring electronic knowledge.

It all hinged on what each of us were interested in or good at. The important thing is not to resent it: "Why do I always have to do X,Y Z?" It is just how things are.

And members of a partnership will inevitably have different priorities: you think it is important to take the children out to activities; he is happy to leave them free to veg out. It may be that both have their place.

Would it be worth listing his virtues? - I am sure he has some!!

I think the person who suggested ADD/ADHD might be on to something, a lot of the issues you describe are familiar to me from family members. Dealing with “transitions” can be difficult, hence the procrastination about driving lessons, not taking the lead on making plans. Rather than trying to make your dh change (which he probably can’t) if you do some research you might find some strategies for dealing with this.

Also, you could say you are buying him a set of driving lessons for his birthday, X has recommended Y and you have booked the first lesson for Saturday.

The grieving over a bereavement a long time in the past does seem like the whole family have got “stuck” and need help to move on but I’m not sure you can do anything about this. It can be very hurtful to people outside those immediately affected if it impinges on their lives & takes precedent over everything else. Sadly, it sometimes takes another equally sad event to enable those grieving to gain some perspective & start living properly again.

I have signed up to mumsnet just to say you the similarities in my relationship are uncanny. No helpful advice from me im afraid, but I'll be floating to see what other responses you get. Must say, you describe your situation so eloquently. All the best, I hope it does not end up in a break up.

God, darkmilkaddict, I recognise that cycle. Feeling emasculated and thinking he's letting me down. But not actually taking the fairly simple steps necessary to change things. This is why I do try to encourage him to things for him - I feel it would build confidence.

He does have his provisional, yes, and he's nervous about driving, though he has no particular reason to be. However so was I - it took me two years and four attempts to pass my test, and every time I got in a car to drive I genuinely believed I was going to die - I remember having to go somewhere, putting my book down, and feeling sad that I wouldn't get to finish it. It amounted to a phobia with me, really, but I knew if I wanted to live in my area without limiting job/social options, I simply had to push through, and I did, despite vomiting before each lesson. It was terrible, but I did it, and I suppose I feel resentment that despite his nerves he can't do the same.

He does just get defensive and sad and not much changes. I should add that this isn't a constant issue - we have months where everything goes swimmingly and I can just accept that's who he is - but any sort of change/shift in dynamic/extra stress falls to me, and then the issue starts raising its head again. He then withdraws from me physically and emotionally - he's doing it at the minute, and I have recently started back to work after being furloughed. Most times I would then "chase" after him - cuddles, initiate sex, try and flirt during the day - but I haven't been because frankly right now I am exhausted and can't be arsed and I want to concentrate on my own health and wellbeing for a change. So when I feel rejected and unwanted I've been going for a run. I can see this is confusing him and he feels like I'm giving him the cold shoulder, but right now I just don't have the energy and I've got so unhealthy over lockdown (since our youngest was born really)

Also a PP pointed out that I perhaps rely on him too much to provide for all my emotional needs, and after thinking about it perhaps that's true. I do have a lot of friends, but in the last 2 years I had our youngest, plus changed jobs and then covid hit, so to be fair I've probably been at home/unconsciously relying on his company more than I have previously in our relationship. Knowing him as I do, he probably does feel that as a responsibility/strain. So if I go out running in the evening and make an effort to do more myself, that might help. There's a course of home study I've been looking at for a while. I've also been feeling shit about myself physically, had a hard time at work after mat leave, and have not really been myself confidence wise, which probably has an impact on how he feels- he is definitely happy when I am happy, and worries if I'm not.

And I do fancy him to bits - that's what makes it all so frustrating. He's gorgeous, and funny, and so amazing with the kids and puts everyone before himself - I've been on MN and read the relationship boards for years, and the men on it are like a different species to my DH, I realise how lucky I am and people are probably reading this and thinking I'm absolutely mad to be complaining about him, but at the same time it's really hard to explain how it does impact on me too, the lack of proactivity. Though regardless of how I feel about the situation, I love him and I don't want anyone else but him.

It all hinged on what each of us were interested in or good at. The important thing is not to resent it: "Why do I always have to do X,Y Z?" It is just how things are.

With respect, though, @Mischance, the OP's situation isn't about organising occasional things like days out or holidays vs DIY, or what each person is 'interested in or good at' -- it's one spouse opting out of ever initiating anything or making any decision or following through on anything to do with the family, and thereby forcing it all onto the other spouse. It would be like one spouse saying 'Oh, I'm not interested in or good at washing up, laundry, cleaning, cooking or childcare, so I'll handle the DIY instead.'