Prostitutes

[allgoodinthehood]

Can I please have an honest opinion on what you really think of people who use prostitution.
I was talking to a friend about it and we had completely different ideas on this subject.
ie a man using a prostitute when he was in a relationship and was away on holiday.

"Using your example, if you were starving and someone offered you money to mow their lawn, would your being desperate make it slavery? In fact, aren't most of us starving were it not for our jobs? Don't most people work because they need the money to survive?

There is no difference between buying consent to mow a lawn or have sex. As long as the person isn't being pressured or coerced, it's a consensual transaction."

Do you honestly assign the same meaning to having sex and mowing a lawn? We can sit here and pretend it's all the same, but we know it's not, don't we?

No one ever finished mowing a lawn and threw up because they felt degraded or dirty or objectified from it, did they?

Whether it is cultural or something engrained in us, sex has a different meaning to most other activities. It is something that makes us feel vulnerable.

Maybe if we lived in some kind of Brave New World style utopia, it would be different, but we don't. We live in this world. Pretending it's the same as mowing a lawn is completely disingenuous.

@stamfordhill Sorry but as a woman who used to work as a cleaner, I resent your comparison to sex work. Cleaning is making an honest living and keeping your dignity. Sex work is not. We all clean sometimes and there's nothing wrong with cleaning loos etc.

Would I think less of the guy? Yes I would.

If he just went on holiday and missed his wife and had FaceTime sex with her would I think more of him? Yes I would.

'Buying sexual consent' - that's the problem. You shouldn't be able to buy it. Because genuine sexual consent cannot be given if it's confused with a need or desire to earn money.

So what in fact you're buying is 'consent' to be raped.

[quote LadyH846]@stamfordhill Sorry but as a woman who used to work as a cleaner, I resent your comparison to sex work. Cleaning is making an honest living and keeping your dignity. Sex work is not. We all clean sometimes and there's nothing wrong with cleaning loos etc.[/quote]
So as a cleaner, you would have been victim of similar social stigmas? By implying that sex workers have no dignity is saying they are not worthy of respect. When I was at uni, I worked in restaurant and then a retail outlet part time, and I cannot even remember the amount of times I was treated like an uneducated scum bag that deserved no respect. People judged me because of how I made money to pay bills and figured because I was a waitress or working in a shop, that I had no dignity and/or was stupid and treated myself and my co-workers like something they walked in on the bottom of their shoe. It’s all social stigmas! The fact is, we judge people based on a small fact and we shouldnt and we fear what we don’t understand.

I would have nothing to do with a man who has used a sex worker. In my mind it is an abuse.

@WakeMeUpNextYear as someone else stated on this thread, you lose your dignity when you're a sex worker. There is no way to engage in that profession and keep it.

You on the other hand keep your dignity as someone who worked in the retail and hospitality industry.

It doesn't matter if people treated you as 'less than', the fact is, you were doing respectable work and respected yourself.

The problem was not the work it was other people.

On the other hand, there is an account from a woman on this thread saying her partner went to a strip club and came back with a photo of two strippers completely naked with spread legs on some man's lap. That is called losing your dignity.

I hope you now see the difference between the two types of work.

Oh, and by the way, I was never treated as scum by the people whose houses I cleaned. People were grateful to have a good cleaner. I got lots of tips and referrals.

I'm sorry that disrespectful people treated you that way because of your work.

Just because it’s not the type of work for you or I, does it mean it’s totally wrong? Fair enough, women who are forced into it and people who use those women are wronguns but, there are dedicated establishments that allow the job to go ahead in a safe and clean environment. Not sure if brothels are legal where you live but they are here. The ladies all pay tax on their earnings and the get to choose if they don’t want to see a client. If they don’t want to, nobody forces them to. They are safe, healthy and doing what they feel they want to do to make money. Without k owing the person, how do you know they are not studying at uni? Working another job? I know a girl that does it on and off to get things she wants. She has a very respectable full time job. I have nothing but respect for her because she is able to do it. I personally, am not meant ally strong enough to do something like that.

Why do I get to keep my dignity? Because someone has said that hospitality and retail are ok? Who makes these decisions and rules?! I left those jobs, almost every shift, feeling like a loser because of how people had treated me. It’s rough.

@WakeMeUpNextYear

Just because it’s not the type of work for you or I, does it mean it’s totally wrong? Fair enough, women who are forced into it and people who use those women are wronguns but, there are dedicated establishments that allow the job to go ahead in a safe and clean environment. Not sure if brothels are legal where you live but they are here. The ladies all pay tax on their earnings and the get to choose if they don’t want to see a client. If they don’t want to, nobody forces them to. They are safe, healthy and doing what they feel they want to do to make money. Without k owing the person, how do you know they are not studying at uni? Working another job? I know a girl that does it on and off to get things she wants. She has a very respectable full time job. I have nothing but respect for her because she is able to do it. I personally, am not meant ally strong enough to do something like that.

Why do I get to keep my dignity? Because someone has said that hospitality and retail are ok? Who makes these decisions and rules?! I left those jobs, almost every shift, feeling like a loser because of how people had treated me. It’s rough.

At least you didn't get degraded sexually and treated like a sex object with no humanity. That's what happens to these women.

And it sounds like your mind is so open your brain fell out, if you think this is not psychologically damaging for the women.

@LadyH846

And it sounds like your mind is so open your brain fell out, if you think this is not psychologically damaging for the women.

Haha my brain fell out?! I certainly hope not. I was taught never to judge people based on what I see from the outside. It doesn’t matter what you do for work, where you live, your financial position, I will treat you with the respect and dignity you have a right to as a human. We are quick to judge people based on their circumstances without bothering to ask the important questions. I agree, some of the people who do this kind of work are psychologically damaged (there is a lot of them that are not) As far as not being degraded sexually, no, not all the time (as waitresses in a pub, we did get harassed by some punters regularly) but, I felt degraded in many other ways. People assumed the worst of me because of what I did. Nobody bothered to ask what else I did. Nobody seemed to care that I was working to earn money while I studied at university. They judged me based on what they saw. That is the problem.

Sorry but I've worked in hospitality too (in addition to cleaning.) I did not feel degraded sexually at any point. I didn't feel like I was sharing my body with creeps in a way that was unhealthy. I was doing a job.

I practise an alternative healing modality and have had some sex workers as clients. Never judge them for what they do. But have been disturbed by the things they've told me and its effect on them emotionally and personally. These are women who are more at high end of market. I think you're coming from a place of naivety if you think the work is empowering.

Someone assuming the worst of you is very different from they want they put up with and get paid to do.

*Someone assuming the worst of you is very different from what they put up with and get paid to do.

Sex workers are affected psychologically from trying to wall off their own emotions. That's the only way they can sell intimacy and their body.

To compare people looking down on you because you work in a bar, to the average sex worker's struggles, is at best naivety.

"Fair enough, women who are forced into it and people who use those women are wronguns but, there are dedicated establishments that allow the job to go ahead in a safe and clean environment. Not sure if brothels are legal where you live but they are here. The ladies all pay tax on their earnings and the get to choose if they don’t want to see a client"

If you're talking about Germany, that experiment has completely failed.

The Netherlands, I don't even know what to say.

Funnily enough, I have dealing with sex workers in my line of work also and I can honestly say, not all of them are damaged. Some people are so sexually free, that it doesn’t bother them at all. Some are certainly in need of support and care.
You are lucky you never had to feel like you were a nothing while working in hospitality. We had customers, chefs and one manager who used to treat us like their own personal ‘dolly girls’. If we worked on the bar for a night, security used to have to ask people to please “stop touching the bar staff”. Two that constantly asked for my number and leered at me, always tried to look down my top and said horrible, disgusting things were in respectable jobs. One was a police officer and the other a social worker. It says a lot when a big security guard has to walk you to your car after your shift.
All I’m saying is we can’t judge people as a whole based on one detail. It’s all about the individual. While one sex worker might come out if it damaged, another could see it as just a job.
I never said the work was empowering at all!
I just refuse to say they have no dignity because by saying that, you are saying they do not deserve respect.

This is what makes me sad about people saying sex workers have no finite...
dignity
/ˈdɪɡnɪti/

noun
1.
the state or quality of being worthy of honour or respect.
2.
a composed or serious manner or style.

*dignity not finite

@WakeMeUpNextYear

Funnily enough, I have dealing with sex workers in my line of work also and I can honestly say, not all of them are damaged. Some people are so sexually free, that it doesn’t bother them at all. Some are certainly in need of support and care. You are lucky you never had to feel like you were a nothing while working in hospitality. We had customers, chefs and one manager who used to treat us like their own personal ‘dolly girls’. If we worked on the bar for a night, security used to have to ask people to please “stop touching the bar staff”. Two that constantly asked for my number and leered at me, always tried to look down my top and said horrible, disgusting things were in respectable jobs. One was a police officer and the other a social worker. It says a lot when a big security guard has to walk you to your car after your shift. All I’m saying is we can’t judge people as a whole based on one detail. It’s all about the individual. While one sex worker might come out if it damaged, another could see it as just a job. I never said the work was empowering at all! I just refuse to say they have no dignity because by saying that, you are saying they do not deserve respect.

I'm sorry you had those horrible experiences but at least you don't have to have sex with those people, after they have treated you that way. There's the difference.

I live in a place where sex work is legalised and has to be done in brothels. If you choose to work in these brothels, you don't get a choice about who you have sex with or what sex practices you say no to. You have to say yes. If you say no, there's someone more desperate who will take your place.

Imagine what it is like to be leered at in that way and then have to have sex with those customers.

@WakeMeUpNextYear

Funnily enough, I have dealing with sex workers in my line of work also and I can honestly say, not all of them are damaged. Some people are so sexually free, that it doesn’t bother them at all. Some are certainly in need of support and care. You are lucky you never had to feel like you were a nothing while working in hospitality. We had customers, chefs and one manager who used to treat us like their own personal ‘dolly girls’. If we worked on the bar for a night, security used to have to ask people to please “stop touching the bar staff”. Two that constantly asked for my number and leered at me, always tried to look down my top and said horrible, disgusting things were in respectable jobs. One was a police officer and the other a social worker. It says a lot when a big security guard has to walk you to your car after your shift. All I’m saying is we can’t judge people as a whole based on one detail. It’s all about the individual. While one sex worker might come out if it damaged, another could see it as just a job. I never said the work was empowering at all! I just refuse to say they have no dignity because by saying that, you are saying they do not deserve respect.

I practise a modality where people offload their emotional troubles onto me sometimes and we're strangers who may never see each other again. The work isn't necessarily about offloading emotional troubles but happens all the time.

Not the same as having a buddy or colleague who is a sex worker because they're not going to pour their heart out to you necessarily.