Last week I told DH I want a divorce

[StuckInPollyannaMode]

Things have been very rocky for 8 months, going steadily downhill for 2 years. Not going to bore you with the details. We have 2 children.

He says no. A flat no, it’s not happening. He can’t do it. He’s been divorced before. He admits his behaviour over the last year hasn’t been good enough and he hasn’t been present or involved.

I’ve told him I love him but I’m no longer in love with him. He asked what love is anyway.

I can’t live in a sexless, affection less marriage for another 40 years. There have been ultimatums and serious discussions about separating before but he’s finally starting to pay it some attention.

He’s a good man and a good father. But he’s not listening. I think he thinks that if he keeps telling me it will all be ok that he’ll get his own way. I’ve agreed to counselling but we’ll be going into it with two very separate aims - his to make it work, mine to have an amicable divorce.

I’m absolutely sure of my decision. We’re good friends who have children. The spark is gone and we have very different views on what we want from life.

I don’t want it to get to the stage where we are arguing every day and lose all respect for each other. He thinks I’m being idealistic and we can sort it all out. But we can’t. I no longer desire him or want him as a partner. We’re basically room mates.

I know he was shocked, I know it takes time. But he can’t say no forever can he?

We both work, there’s no affair or anything.

How do I keep pushing this? Like so many things over the course of our marriage, I’m the one having to be the grown up and make the decision.

So the mediator is leading the sessions in an impartial chairman type role. Can you sit on your hands and hold your powder dry and wait for him to stop talking about money and actually start talking about the children without a prompt from you? You could leave each session with a sad head shake and a "Obviously I'm disappointed we haven't got to the children yet as they are my priority" I can't imagine it would occur to him to start a conversation about them unless it was via the medium of finance.

OP, I've just RTFT and i just wanted to say your attitude and sense of humour are fantastic and i applaud the way you're dealing with your ex.

Ah thanks

Well, after another discussion which proves you can’t negotiate with stupid, I have instructed my solicitor to file for divorce.

He’s very woe woe and thrice woe. Eg he’s hurt that only 2 friends have asked him how he is doing. I said, well, have you asked any of them how THEY are doing or want to go for a walk or anything? He just shrugged.

So now I have to come up with the 5 unreasonable behaviours. Answers on a postcard...

Oh. He’s still saying I’ll have to help him move as he won’t be able to have anyone in the house to help put up curtains etc. I can’t imagine anyone will want to help him if he doesn’t bloody talk to them.

I’m done.

Curtains?! yeah, curtains for his bloody marriage to you.
What is it with men and curtains a total knob.
Good luck, Polly 🤞🏻 Don't let him bring you down.

Unreasonable behaviours can be very mundane. The format is generally quite simple:

'Although we both work, my STBXH will not commit to sharing the essential childcare duties that come with daily life. This makes me feel that both my work in the home and my employment are not appreciated or valued by him. The last time this happened was [date and example here]'.

It really does have to be that petty. Mentioning that he does not show you appreciation and affection is also a valid point.

I put four points on mine, but to be fair one of those points was alcohol addiction (his), so I didn't really need a lot more than that.

I just find it mind blowing that he thinks it's ok to tell you that you have to help him, I mean WTF???

Yes mundane things there are so many for your to choose from...

He's really not adjusting well to the new reality, is he?

I'd be suggesting to him that now could be a good time for him to google 'how to put up curtains'. There's a youtube tutorial for virtually everything these days!

I'd find a number of a handyman/women and give it to him the next time he starts with this crap. And tell him very plainly that you are no longer his dogsbody and he as an adult can figure it out himself or pay someone to do it as you are no longer at his beck and call.

Or just repeat like a broken record 'that sounds like a YOU problem' and ignore and complaints for him.

He has no concept of how to cope without a wife, does he?

He relies on you and his friends to arrange his social life for him (because he couldn't possibly be expected to do the work of reaching out to friends himself...). And he needs you to make the house look nice for him (can he really not conceive of being able to put up a curtain himself?!).

I'm going to guess he never arranges his own hair cuts, or buys gifts for his family either?

Your 'unreasonable behaviours' are what's unreasonable for you. You could say that he's unreasonable for cutting his toenails in front of the telly, if you find it unreasonable, it's unreasonable. You don't have to 'prove' anything either. He can argue and say he doesn't agree, but if he does this it'll hit his wallet, and you can't really argue that your behaviour is unreasonable, because what's unreasonable to you, might not be unreasonable him.

Just read your tread, am about to separate from my husband, I’m expecting a huge fuss but reading how strong and decisive you are it gives me hope for the other side x

@LannieDuck the PERFORMANCE about his haircuts. He refuses to book an appointment, he'd rather go to the barber and sit there for 2 bloody hours waiting his turn. It's got to be planned in and scheduled. Takes up hours, mostly on the debate about when is the best time to go and whether he should go during working hours or at the weekend, or with him popping down and then them having a really long queue and he gives up after half an hour so has to go back. Absolutely infuriates me. Just pick up the phone and book.

I accidentally (and it was accidental) gave him a brutal haircut in lockdown. Turns out a grade 2 all over takes 5 minutes.

Oh the plus side, he hasn't asked me to do it again

He is actually really good at buying presents.

Not the kids ones, obviously, that's all been on me to sort out. But he did get them something from Gap the other day.

Lots of parcels are arriving. Not ordered by me. Now, they could be presents but I suspect not. Wonder what he's up to now?

Good luck @Freedom1983 - start your own thread and start looking forward to your new life.

oh - latest line of questioning - have I someone else, either male or female? SERIOUSLY?

I have suggested youtube, I have suggested mutual friends, I have suggested the handyman we use when I can't cope with a DIY task.

I'm not suggesting anything any more, he can sort himself out. And what will happen is what is happening with the hoover - absolutely nothing. It's still packaged.

On the minus side, I've injured myself with all my exercise. Shooting pains up and down my calves and cramps. Physio consult tomorrow.

Sports injury - remember rest, ice, compress and elevate.

It’s probably because you have increased your mileage too quickly.

Are you doing proper stretching afterwards?

Foam roller on the calves . And everywhere really.

On the minor and unimportant matter of Geller - stop suggesting ways to solve his problem. He doesn’t want your suggestions. He wants

1. To make you feel guilty
2. For you to do it for him
3. For you to realise how IMPOSSIBLE life will be for him without his full time support human.

You need to start doing grey rock on this. Lots of hmm / okay / sympathetic nods / yes and I don’t know.

“I don’t know if I’ve bought the right hoover, I think I’ll send it back and get another model “

NO to “ Have you kept the receipt, you always lose them ? Did you check the returns policy ? I read the Which reviews and that model comes out top “.

YES to “ OK”.

“ But I’m worried that I might not get a replacement in time and maybe I would get a better deal on Black Friday. Maybe your mother would lend me hers ? Could you call your sister and ask what Hoover she would recommend ? “

NO to “ Don’t be ridiculous, how would my mother manage without hers! Why would you drive an hour to her house to borrow it !! Why do you think my sister is a hoover expert? “

YES to “ I don’t know “
Or “ Sorry that’s doesn't work for me “
Or “ Sorry what did you say ? I wasn't listening/ I drifted off”
Or “ I think I’m coming down with a headache , I’m going to lie down “.

Stop being your usual capable self and start being vague.

TBH about the curtains and hoover you need to be direct

"Not my problem" or "we have separated it's nothing to do with me"

Stop giving him your headspace by listening.

Remember how he refused to listen when you asked for the divorce he's still refusing to listen.

You have separated, you may live in the same house but it's done and you need to state that as the fact it is.

Does he know you've instructed your solicitor?

You’re all right.

I need to toughen up.

I need a little coaching with myself! Thank you all.

Been lying on the sofa with a gin and tonic watching the GBBO final - does that count @S00LA?! Yes I do stretch but I’ve been dashing around so much I’ve just realised I’ve been skipping the immediate post run stretch. My bad.

No, he doesn’t know. I’m speaking to SHL tomorrow. My parents are paying the initial fee so he won’t know.

Been lying on the sofa with a gin and tonic watching the GBBO final - does that count @S00LA?! Yes I do stretch but I’ve been dashing around so much I’ve just realised I’ve been skipping the immediate post run stretch

Yes to sofa, gin and GBBO. Just not straight after a run.

However you can use the foam roller while watching GBBO and then reward yourself with a gin on the sofa. Plan?

Stretching is essential - you probably need 10 mins to do it properly, esp you now have an injury.

If you have time, can you write a briefing note for the SHL and email to her before the meeting ? It will save time going over the basics.

How did the SHL go? Hope all is ok

Afternoon folks, sorry I've been quiet, just been heads down getting on.

Talk with the lawyer was good, getting things in place to file after Christmas. I just can't face serving the papers before Christmas, he's so woe is me anyway, that'll tip him over the edge. At least if it's after Christmas I'll know I've only got 3 or 4 weeks to go.

I'm trying to come up with my reasons without being too horrid, or without being too nice!

He's very depressed and has said that he doesn't want anything to do with Christmas. He's not contributing to the cost of the tree or anything. So I've bought a fake one complete with lights and it's going up next weekend and then I'll take it with me, at least I won't have to saw it up and take it to the tip in January. He's said he just wants the day to be over. Well, so do I, but I'll do my best for the kids.

I'm just trying to figure out the next salvo in my child custody overnight whatsits. If he has them every Thursday night, and then every other weekend from Friday to Monday, over a 4 week period that gives me 18 nights and him 10. What does that work out at over the year? Brain has gone to sludge. is it 234 nights to me and 130 to him? I can't work out what that would give me on child maintenance.

Oh - he managed to put together the hoover BY HIMSELF. And use it. Who knew it could be as easy as opening a box?! I haven't touched it.

Lol at the Hoover. You should ask him if he wants a medal.

Your percentage of days is 64% and a bit and his is roughly 35% and a bit if that helps.

Would you not expect him to have more in the holidays or would you each have the same such as 4 weeks each?

I'm worried he's going to deliberately make Christmas crap for you and the DC. Time to seriously look at taking the girls elsewhere???

Or just do presents in the morning and then go?

He's already starting it now...

The online cms calculator will work out what is the minimum he should give you for various scenarios. You put in his salary and the number of nights he has them and you can try as many different figure variations as you like without registering anything.

Fuck my fucking life.

I am so CROSS with myself. Why why WHY can’t I articulate the anger and use it? Why do I just end up going ‘ok FINE’ and stomping off, without standing my ground? Why am I so weak and spineless?

At the moment he’s just delighting in being an arse. Just had an argument over going to church on Christmas Day 🤦‍♀️

This from a man who has spent the weekend drooping around and moaning about getting through the day. Plus he wants to go for a long run ‘to help him get through it’. I want to go to church (which, I may add, he never did before I met him) and I’ve said I’ll go alone if I can’t get tickets for all of us if they’re restricted per household or something and BOOM. The sighs come out, the passive aggressive dogs and I ...just crumble. And he gets his way!

Re access. Friend of mine who has some experience in this area has suggested that I need to consider the following - interested in the MN thoughts on this:

First, what he’s asking for is not an establishment of an existing norm. If I already had an equitable share of child arrangements, it would be reasonable to request a 50/50. What he’s actually doing by insisting on this is removing from me and the girls time that we have had together for the last 7 years - he is undoing an established pattern.

Second, he has failed to provide me with any indication that he’s doing it for the right reasons.

And third, he’s failed to indicate how he’s planning to sustain this.

So I need to work out what the current split is and base it on that.

So when he’s telling me he wants 50/50, he’s asking me to destablise the girls 30% and also give up 30% of my time.

Does that make sense? My head is in a spin but I do recognise what she’s saying, although I’m struggling to articulate it.

Going for my first run in tend has tomorrow. I need it. Will stretch and all that but my god. Lockdown ending and moving out can’t come soon enough.

Passive aggressive dogs? I’d love a dog.

Or a dig.

I agree with your friend, and think you articulated the points just fine. Don't do yourself down.

Same principle as with the Christmas day church attendance situation.

It probably just feels uncomfortable to take the position your friend has suggested because it's so ingrained in you to give him what he wants.

The more you practise the easier it will eventually get to assert your own needs / stand your ground. At least you can identify when you haven't been assertive but could have been - without that you wouldn't be able to start changing how you respond. So you are partway there, it was never going to come to you instantly - it's uncomfortable when it's not something you're used to doing!

It will take time, but you will get there.