Last week I told DH I want a divorce

[StuckInPollyannaMode]

Things have been very rocky for 8 months, going steadily downhill for 2 years. Not going to bore you with the details. We have 2 children.

He says no. A flat no, it’s not happening. He can’t do it. He’s been divorced before. He admits his behaviour over the last year hasn’t been good enough and he hasn’t been present or involved.

I’ve told him I love him but I’m no longer in love with him. He asked what love is anyway.

I can’t live in a sexless, affection less marriage for another 40 years. There have been ultimatums and serious discussions about separating before but he’s finally starting to pay it some attention.

He’s a good man and a good father. But he’s not listening. I think he thinks that if he keeps telling me it will all be ok that he’ll get his own way. I’ve agreed to counselling but we’ll be going into it with two very separate aims - his to make it work, mine to have an amicable divorce.

I’m absolutely sure of my decision. We’re good friends who have children. The spark is gone and we have very different views on what we want from life.

I don’t want it to get to the stage where we are arguing every day and lose all respect for each other. He thinks I’m being idealistic and we can sort it all out. But we can’t. I no longer desire him or want him as a partner. We’re basically room mates.

I know he was shocked, I know it takes time. But he can’t say no forever can he?

We both work, there’s no affair or anything.

How do I keep pushing this? Like so many things over the course of our marriage, I’m the one having to be the grown up and make the decision.

TBH I would be explicit - I've been the unpaid Nanny and Housekeeper for x years that doesn't continue now. You parent and do the DC stuff in their time with you it's not about them having sleepovers at yours and labelling it 50:50

If you don't get the house until January I would think about holding off telling them yet. 7 weeks is a LONG time to them!!!

I agree with this. I’d tell them after Christmas.

You need to emphasise him having them overnights means he does the parenting - washing uniform, paying for school lunches, doing their homework, feeding them etc. Basically call him out on his belief of wanting 50:50 without doing the work

And this too. Many fathers think that you will deliver the children after they’ve had dinner and done their homework, with a suitcase of clean clothes. Like you do when they stay at granny’s. And preferably just before bedtime to allow dad to go to the gym / for a drink after work.

He will have no idea what half the parenting involves, as most of it is invisible to him.

I remember a thread on here years ago, from a father who had demanded 50:50 ( and got it ) but then expected his ex to train him, which she unsurprisingly refused to do. So he decided to post on here to get other women to train him instead.

IIRC his main questions were about how to make a dentist appointment for his child and about the special toothpaste that his child needed.

Apparently he had been “ desperate “ to do things for his children for year but his wife “wouldn’t let him “.

Of course there were the usual handmaidens telling him how amazing he was and how their ex sees his child for 5 mins every decade. I particularly enjoy the posters who fall over themselves to say how easy parenting is, such as the poster who claimed that getting a hospital appointment for your child takes “ literally 5 mins”.

Yes, making a Gp appointment, taking time work, asking school for time off for child, taking your child out of school, attending GP, begging for referral, driving child back to school, getting hospital letter, arranging time off work for you and time off school for child, arranging alternative childcare after school for other child, taking child out of school, driving to hospital and waiting an hour in clinic , seeing doctor, taking child to McDonald’s as a reward for behaving, picking up bottle of wine for friend who did school pick up for you, collecting other child from friends, driving home .

Yes indeed it’s 5 mins of dad time and at least 2 x half days of mum time. Plus the McDonald, bottle of wine and favour you need to pay back.

Had an utter meltdown after school drop off this morning. I'm scared of the mediation and him not giving way on wanting the kids 50/50. Because the people who will suffer in that will be the kids.

Had a bad night's sleep and then he was being a shit this morning, so dictatorial with the kids - there's no wonder the youngest told him yesterday that he's no fun any more and that the eldest wants to buy him wine and a stressball for Christmas.

Phoned my best friend and had a good sob down the phone at her. She was brilliant. As she says, nothing in mediation is binding, if he won't budge at all then I'll just sit through 2 sessions to be able to say I tried and then hand it all over to my SHL. At which point he really will be worse off.

I'm also worried about coping financially. He's knocked my confidence so much. Rationally I know I can do it, but he's still holding firm on not paying maintenance - that's his driver for wanting the kids 50/50. It really is all about money for him.

I've been primary carer for nearly 8 years. Him doing a term's worth of school runs isn't going to make up for that, rationally I know that.

I've got my notes of what to say, thank you for the pointers. Me being nice will only last as long as he is prepared to do the same - if he won't, SHL will come into play and then he won't know what's hit him.

I would say in mediation that you believe his main driver for 50:50 is not having to pay maintenance which is an insult to you after being primary carer for 8 years and that you truly do not believe it is in their best interests and you will not agree to it.

Take control show him your boundary that he cannot cross

Just remember, that if your absolute lines in the sand are always focused on the children's wellbeing and what is the truly best thing for them, then you have a right and responsibility as a parent to stick to those lines. If he pisses you off or is totally unreasonable, just keep telling yourself 'this is what is best for the kids'. If that is front and centre for you, you can't go far wrong whatever his behaviour and motivations are. Some hills are not worth dying on, but this is the one place where you absolutely have every right to be bloody minded, stubborn and difficult. Because you're not doing it for your benefit, but for them.

I would be asking him what he thinks is involved in 50:50 and what does he think he will need to do to facilitate it.

Even if you have to agree 50:50, that doesn't mean that it can't change down the line once he has proved to himself that he can't do it. I would be tempted to agree to a trial now and that he can take in the next week of child related care. Don't do anything for him or the kids. Direct any queries from the dcs to their father. He does their food shopping, washing, homework supervision, organising for school ... I know it would be hard for you to do that but may be worth it to show him.

If he out earns you even with 50/50 sometimes there's still maint to pay. Does he realise with 50/50 he will have to pay for childcare etc when he's got them?

@StuckInPollyannaMode
Please do not falter. Remember, you have almost singlehandedly brought up two children (extremely well, by the looks of it - they're seeing through him!) run the house and enabled him to work. The fact that he still can't understand why you're doing this speaks volumes.
You are a strong, strong woman, a wonderful role model for your children - and he is a complete and utter wankbadger.
You have supportive friends, and you have us, the Vipers!!

YOU GOT THIS!!!!!!

I think you should say in mediation that there needs to be continuity and stability for the children. And that for the last 8 years you have been in main carer so that needs to continue.

It’s not about what he wants or doesn’t want. He’s had 8 years to spend more time with the children and he’s chosen not to.

It’s not even about what you want. It’s about what’s in the best interests of the children.

I know the 50:50 is about money but I’d try to avoid saying that. Because he will turn it to say that you only want to be the main carer because you want his money.

I’d keep saying it’s about stability and continuity for the children .

Mediation will be nerve wracking no doubt. Have you got a list of things to remember to say?

They nearly always turn sh*tty once they realise you are not backing down. He is losing his power so the last tool in his arsenal is the kids. They will become the new battle ground and as you’ve now seen his nastiness has transferred from you to them. I noticed this straightaway with my EX. Use this to fuel your determination to fight for what’s right for you and your children.

When's your first mediation session? Hopefully once that's done you'll have a good steer on what he's going to say and you'll start to feel more in control of the situation.

Got a text from friend just now saying that she spent most of coffee trying desperately not to cry with laughter at how utterly ridiculous he was being!

One of the friends I was with last weekend told her husband about us separating. He immediately asked when he should buy him a monkey so he can turn fully into Ross from Friends 🤣 - kept sending GIFs with ‘3 divorces’

OP - your friends sound like nasty shits.

On your previous thread you said that you and your DC adore DH. That he helped with housework, child care and made you laugh. Now you're speaking about him with contempt, calling him Geller and being egged on by RandomMess (who is way too involved in a stranger's life) and other posters who are relishing your soap opera and your DH's life unravelling.

Good Lord, it looks like the OP's mother in law has popped into the thread to comment.

@AlexisRoselovesTedtheVet

Got a text from friend just now saying that she spent most of coffee trying desperately not to cry with laughter at how utterly ridiculous he was being!

One of the friends I was with last weekend told her husband about us separating. He immediately asked when he should buy him a monkey so he can turn fully into Ross from Friends 🤣 - kept sending GIFs with ‘3 divorces’

OP - your friends sound like nasty shits.

On your previous thread you said that you and your DC adore DH. That he helped with housework, child care and made you laugh. Now you're speaking about him with contempt, calling him Geller and being egged on by RandomMess (who is way too involved in a stranger's life) and other posters who are relishing your soap opera and your DH's life unravelling.

Watch out OP, your husband is here.

Watch out OP, your husband is here.

Wow. Soap opera? I was aiming more for insightful and thought provoking BBC drama, but there we are.

Considering this is a man who 3 days ago asked me to help unpack his new Hoover, understand how it fits together and check that it works by ‘running it round’ then I think I have every right to a smidgen of contempt.

I’m not going to post every detail of mediation. I did my best but I did end up crying at one point. I stuck to the points about the children. 2 main points:

He said the financial settlement needed to reflect the fact that he was going to have to pay a mortgage for the next 10-20 years. She was incredulous, checked that her understanding was correct, then said that he was making that choice (based on the equity) and perhaps he needed to see a financial advisor.

She asked if we could find time to discuss the children before the next session, as we are able to talk (there was more but I’m summing up). I said yes, absolutely. He said he has a crazy week coming up with work and he would try to see if he could fit it in.

He also shouted over her one point.

Oh, and he’s some more financial stuff I didn’t know about - not significant, but still.

This weekend is horrid. I’m off for a long bike ride with a friend.

Jesus, I can't decide whats worse, the hoover thing or his inability to make time to discuss the kids. Eeesh. Koko op, there is light at the end of the tunnel.

She asked if we could find time to discuss the children before the next session, as we are able to talk (there was more but I’m summing up). I said yes, absolutely. He said he has a crazy week coming up with work and he would try to see if he could fit it in

And this is the man who wants the dc 50/50? If he's struggling to fit in one mediation session, how does he think he'll fit in young children? Your mediator won't have missed this point.

Mediators aren't supposed to be biased, but they are human and will pick up on people who talk over them, become annoyed, aggressive etc, they do this day in day out remember. My ex got really annoyed and talked over our mediator, came unprepared and made an idiot of himself. I kept quiet and was reasonable and polite. My mediator really backed me up and put my ex in his place several times, once it was all done she said to me, out of earshot of him, that she wasn't surprised I was divorcing him

And this is the man who wants the dc 50/50? If he's struggling to fit in one mediation session, how does he think he'll fit in young children? Your mediator won't have missed this point

Absolutely ! That’s how he will see his parenting of the kids too - something he will try to fit in, if he’s not too busy.

The request about the vacuum cleaner - he absolutely still views you as the housekeeper and nanny and even now you are divorcing he expects it to carry on!!! I hope you said a flat out "no".

Not making time to discuss the DC well he never has seen them as a priority has he because it's your job.

Sadly it's every clearer it's only about the money...

How many more mediation sessions do you need to do before you take it to court? I wonder if he's just stringing it out in the hope that you don't go through with it because of his insistence on 50:50 and making out that you won't be entitled to a fair and reasonable settlement and you ought to get back in your box?

Hugs

Hope the bike ride helped clear your head. You are doing great, you have remembered that the important things are your children and the fact that he is not your friend. His views on what are important will be obvious to everyone else

It is still in its box.

He told me last night he has 45 minutes before his first meeting today and can fit in talking about the children then.

He knows about my house. Apparently I MUST make the children understand I can't POSSIBLY afford to buy a house like that, and that we'll be able to walk to school means they won't want to go and stay with him.

The mediator said usually 3 sessions each on the kids and the finances. I think I have to give it a good go. But if we get to 4 and we haven't made any progress, I'll start questioning the point of carrying on.

If you have made no progress after 2 is there really any point?

He is rolling out excuses as to why the DC won't stay with him because he knows he has been a disinterested father for years and the relationship isn't strong. The DC are young they don't decide on contact you 2 come to an agreement

It does sound like he is setting up a narrative when none of
It is his fault and you can do all the grunge work because the DC want to walk to an S from school but they need to sleep at his so it's 50:50.

Sadly he does seem very deluded and I think he has likely rewritten the reasons for his marriage ending and not seeing those DC.

He knows about my house. Apparently I MUST make the children understand I can't POSSIBLY afford to buy a house like that

I can't for the life of me fathom out his reasoning behind this... what does it matter if it's owned or rented, the kids won't care, it'll simple be 'home' to them. I doubt they'd understand tbh