DH doesn’t want kids. I do.

[LilWren]

This is kind of a long story but I’ll try and keep it brief.
DH and I have been together since we were both 16. We got married 5 years ago, when we were 25. We’ve been through a lot of testing situations together, our relationship is strong and I’m more in love with him than ever.
There is just the one GIANT PROBLEM in that about a year after we got married he told me he didn’t want to have children. It was a pretty bad time all round, he was depressed, hated his job, we were a long way from home and family, and we had no money. After a lot of emotional conversations he said he would agree to having one baby together when we’re ready.
4 years down the line, we own our home a few miles away from both our parents, both doing well at work and comfortable financially. Over the past few years we’ve talked about it periodically and he’s seemed more and more positive about having kids.

HOWEVER. It was our 5th wedding anniversary the other week. We got to talking about the future, as you do. A few wines down the line and he says ‘I still don’t really want to have kids, I’m just doing it for you’.

Well this completely destroyed me, as you can imagine. I need a partner who will be with me every step of the way, who will be excited with me and love our baby as much as I do. If we go ahead with this, will he always feel resentful of me/our child? Will I hate him for being distant? Is it worth the risk anyway? I hear of so many fathers who were terrified but then completely fell in love with their child. Is it too much of a risk to hope this will happen?
He’s incredibly caring, loyal, hard working and a devoted husband. He is great with my cousin’s kids and they love him.
He says he just thinks having kids looks ‘terrible’ but I think there’s some family issues from his childhood that we may be able to address - his parents split when he was little and his dad has said it was because they had children (his mum had an affair and left his dad and the kids after they had his sister).

I feel stupid for thinking we were both on the same page, and selfish for not questioning it more at the time. I’m going to talk to him more about this when he’s back from a work trip next week, but if it turns out he genuinely just doesn’t want kids, rather than being afraid of the outcome, wtf do I do???

I still feel that your post is asking 'how can I change his mind and get him to want kids with me and be totally on board with it when this is something I want so much and everything else is so good?' And we can't do that. No one can wave a magic wand and make that happen.
It's very different being a fun uncle for a few hours than having your own DC who is totally, 100% your responsibility. I feel like he gets that and maybe you don't.

Imagine yourselves, 8 months or so into disrupted sleep. You're both standing by the cot at 3am while Baby Wren is refusing to settle. Are you thinking that, well, you wanted this, so he can go to bed and you'll spend the next 2 hours with a crying baby? Is he thinking this? If the answer is yes to either then you'll end up doing everything and feeling like you can't say anything.

Really feel for you. It's a gamble whatever route you go down as you obviously can't make him want to have children even if he is willing to for you. Has he discussed why he doesn't want children to see if it's just worries or he's 100% sure?

Would leave, as you don’t now have more time to waste when he clearly doesn’t want DC.

Under usual circumstances I'd agree he was unfair to tell you later, but you were very young. Who does know at 16-21 what kind of adult life they want? You're still kids yourselves. That also means that your fear of losing him and being unable to imagine life without him is understandable but you are 25..thats so young. Its very sad but I think you need to face this reality and go your separate ways. Many people have barely begun their first serious relationships at your age so it's not a waste or a failure, it's a learning process.

@HugeAckmansWife

Under usual circumstances I'd agree he was unfair to tell you later, but you were very young. Who does know at 16-21 what kind of adult life they want? You're still kids yourselves. That also means that your fear of losing him and being unable to imagine life without him is understandable but you are 25..thats so young. Its very sad but I think you need to face this reality and go your separate ways. Many people have barely begun their first serious relationships at your age so it's not a waste or a failure, it's a learning process.

She's 30.

You really do have a stark choice- if you can't face life without him and he's your everything, I would discuss it one more time and then put the idea to bed and enjoy the life you have

Sorry, I don't believe this is a possibility for you. You have always wanted children. It's difficult enough to accept you wont' have children due to infertility but to give it up for someone else - I can't imagine a marriage surviving that, and even if it does how can you be happy - especially knowing he has strung you along for so long.

Everyone saying ‘just leave and find some other guy’ is not really getting it. I don’t WANT some other guy, this is a good man and I’ve seen how other relationships are, I’ve seen my friends let down time and time again. We have both worked for this relationship and it’s not something I can just ...drop? Like it’s a dress that doesn’t fit? I want our life together. This is what I chose

Nobody is suggesting that it's easy for you to 'just drop' him. What they are pointing out is that there is zero compromise about having kids - there's no middle ground and if you don't agree then one person is always going to be disappointed. Left unchecked, this is the kind of issue that destroys relationships.

People are trying to give you advice on the basis that as a woman, your fertility is finite so you cannot afford to give someone years to mull it over. If you start TTC at age 30 then statistically you have a 70% chance of getting pregnant within a year. By age 40 that falls to 40% and it drops significantly each year. Men don't have that biological clock.

I agree with this point: I still feel that your post is asking 'how can I change his mind and get him to want kids with me and be totally on board with it when this is something I want so much and everything else is so good?' And we can't do that. No one can wave a magic wand and make that happen.

You say that you have chosen this guy - that's fine. But you need to be very clear-sighted about what you are going to do if he refuses to have children despite you wanting them. If you're prepared to sacrifice your dream of parenthood for your marriage, then that's your decision. But be careful, because you wouldn't be the first woman to get to her 40s and be dumped for someone younger - that he promptly has kids with.

And if in ten years time, you had stayed only to find he still didn't want kids of his own, you may want to know if he is willing to add to the family in other ways

Why do you keep banging on about this bunnymummy? There is absolutely nothing in OP's post to suggest this man doesn't want kids just because he doesn't want a biological child, but may be open to adoption. Or that he is thinking, 'well, I can't be arsed with nappies but I will totally take on an older child with PTSD and violent outbursts/ or a child with serious attachment disorder (which is more like a brain injury than an behavioural issue), because nappies suck but taking on these complex and exhausting problems, as well as the long and challenging process of being assessed and then matched, and then the match falling through and starting over again, really appeals to me.'

Frankly you seem to know nothing about the adoption process or about children who need adoption. And OP and her DH would have to have the world's most incompetent social worker for a man like him to get through the adoption process anyway.

as someone who cant have children, i would say you need to think about if you want children or his children

I never wanted children until I met my husband when i was 29 and then found out that I couldnt have them. People (as always) suggested adoption but I didnt want that for lots of reasons but one of the main ones was that I only ever wanted a child that was mine and my husbands. Im lucky in that respect - I didnt have any overwhelming desire for any child only for his child.

if you want to be have children OP and that matters more to you than having children that are your DH children then you need to leave and find a new path.

Im really sorry but this is one of those horrible situations where a compromise isnt available.

If you choose to stay longer, and not to ttc, the most likely scenario (based on stats etc, eg 50% of marriages end in divorce, you married young) is of your relationship ending in the future. WHEN that happens matters much more for you than for him, since far more men than women can have biological DC at X age.

He has already lied or (at best) messed you around / put his wishes for a relationship with you now above yours for DC, for some years.

Clearly, there are no guarantees of meeting someone else to have a good LT relationship with who wants DC. But your odds will be much better if you start sooner!

Everyone saying ‘just leave and find some other guy’ is not really getting it. I don’t WANT some other guy, this is a good man and I’ve seen how other relationships are, I’ve seen my friends let down time and time again. We have both worked for this relationship and it’s not something I can just ...drop? Like it’s a dress that doesn’t fit? I want our life together. This is what I chose

No man is worth giving up children for (if having children is what you want)

And how exactly is he "working" at the relationship if he's basically forcing you to accept his decision???

Those that are saying they have perfectly happy fulfilled lives without children likely chose not to have them in the first place - it's very different for those that do want children to find that kind of "fulfilment"

Sorry, I read from the op they were 16 when they got together and married at 20, five years ago. My point still stands though.

@seensome thanks for the flowers. No my Ex's new gf didn't get pregnant on purpose, she'd actually dumped him for trying the same controlling shit on her that he used to do to me - they got back together when she found out she was expecting.

@LilWren sorry I forgot to give actual advice! What I meant to say was that I know you don't want to split up from your DH but think very, very carefully about all possible scenarios because you're the one with the finite fertility, not him. Many marriages where the couple got together very young don't last the distance as you change a lot during your 20s and early 30s - it's kind of luck if you happen to change in the same direction. I know you don't want to consider it but how will you feel if you did end up divorced/bereaved and childless? Would you look back and think the good times you had were worth it anyway? Like I said I still feel sad about not having DC and I'm someone who never had that strong a desire in the first place.

@HugeAckmansWife

Sorry, I read from the op they were 16 when they got together and married at 20, five years ago. My point still stands though.

That she's still so young and it's a learning process? Realistically if she were to leave now and give herself a year of breathing room she'd ideally have about 3 years to meet someone else, enjoy some childfree time and start TTC to give herself the best chance. We started TTC at 31 and I gave birth at 34. No reason, just took a long time.

I agree with pp that you need to go for counselling together. The truth is that if you want to have a baby and he doesn’t, you need to at least consider the possibility that you might not be able to stay together.

So if he is adamant that he doesn't want children but you love him and stay @LilWren can give up on your dream of children and that in 20 years you will be able to look at him without any resentment at all as you gave up your dream for him.

Also people suggesting that if he's great with kids he'll come round and be a great Dad, what if he doesn't, and how many threads are on this site moaning about Fathers not pulling their weight, and not changing their lifestyles or just not being involved, are these men who also probably didn't want kids but went along with it to keep the wife/girlfriend happy.

Also the world is hugely over popularised so people not producing is a good thing in my eyes, plus who really what's to bring a child into this incredibly fucked up world.

Being great with other kids does not mean great with your own.

It's easy to be great with kids if it's your job (eg teacher) or you see your nieces and nephews for a short time and you do the fun stuff (play) and not the dull bits of parenting (cleaning their mess, wiping bums etc) My kids are teenagers and when. Meet other mums with toddlers I have a good time with them but there's also relief that it's just for a bit and I'm not being woken up by them tonight and I won't have to clean a half squished Jaffa cake out of the car seat later.

I think that a better indication of someone who might be a good Dad is how you are treated if you're ill or unemployed. If he picks up the slack without a bother because he's an adult who cares about you and realises that he might need that from you one day then you're looking at a potential great co-parent. If he's resentful and moans to all and sundry about you being lazy then run like the wind.

hammering if this is the only relationship she's ever been in, then in those terms, yes she still has a lot to learn and knows nothing of the usual ups and downs of 2/3 serious relationships most of us have prior to meeting the person we have kids with. She seems to be desperate to make this stick, and work because her lack of experience doesn't allow her to picture life with anyone else. There are plenty of women in here who have had kids post 35 or even 40 or 45, or have chosen to go it alone. The key point is that she shouldn't assume he will change his mind or that his view is wrong and so should probably end it if kids are a non negotiable

TTC; pregnancy; possible losses during pregnancy; childbirth and its aftermath; and ultimately having and raising babies/toddlers/children/tweens/teens etc are ALL so potentially difficult and fraught with really, really testing challenges - that I really wouldn't recommend embarking on this path with anyone who wasn't 100% keen on the whole idea. Even many of us who desperately wanted children can still find it all extremely challenging and overwhelming, and find that it can put an unbearable strain on the strongest relationship. Please consider everything carefully OP. Good luck, very difficult decisions to make.

You either want him, or a child. It's simple. You can't have both.

I'd be reassessing my opinion of him though TBH - he's lied to you for 5 years. That'd sit uncomfortably

And to reiterate, you're 30. The clock is ticking.

you either want him or a child. It’s simple you can’t have both

This. At some point you will make a decision. Make sure it’s one you can live with.

It is taboo but the strain it puts on you on you in incredible. If I'd been on the fence and had been pushed into it I'd really resent the other person.

@HugeAckmansWife

hammering if this is the only relationship she's ever been in, then in those terms, yes she still has a lot to learn and knows nothing of the usual ups and downs of 2/3 serious relationships most of us have prior to meeting the person we have kids with. She seems to be desperate to make this stick, and work because her lack of experience doesn't allow her to picture life with anyone else. There are plenty of women in here who have had kids post 35 or even 40 or 45, or have chosen to go it alone. The key point is that she shouldn't assume he will change his mind or that his view is wrong and so should probably end it if kids are a non negotiable

And my point is that telling her she's young and has plenty of time to experience new relationships completely takes away any urgency in resolving this with her husband, one way or the other. If she is 30 now and knows she wants 2 children then there are few people who would advise her that waiting til 40 or 45 (!) will work out fine.