Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Getting my life back

221 replies

Witchesandwizards · 28/07/2020 18:16

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3877702-Just-need-to-share-no-solution?watched=1&msgid=98693727#98693727

The next chapter starting on a slightly more positive note. x

OP posts:
justilou1 · 01/08/2020 04:35

Maybe you should ask your friend to note these mind games too.

Mix56 · 01/08/2020 06:25

re. football match, that is a kind of headfuckery.
Does he come & see the football often? Was he claiming you as a family possession? or supporting you, when he saw DH further away? or some sort of power play?
I might have said, "Oh H is over there". but probably ignoring him was the best.
So the kids went to him after football ?

Thehouseofmarvels · 01/08/2020 07:24

@Witchesandwizards

It sounds like he is stopping you from telling SIL by hinting her life would spiral out of control if she found out ?

If she became suspicious and asked you directly would you tell the truth or would you lie about the financial situation?

Because none of us can predict the future. It may be that some of her problems are caused by being part of a toxic and heavy drinking family.

It may be that she would be in a state for a while after she found out but that separation from them could in the long term be good for her.

Are they trying to support her to get better? Support might be not drinking around her, doing whatever they can to build up her self esteem and encouraging her to get help from a doctor councillor and Alcoholics Anonymous. If they aren't doing this separating from them might mean she has more space in her life to be influenced by people who would encourage her to do these things.

Your husband is framing her finding out as a bad thing. I'm not saying rush out and tell her right now but I do think that it may be a good thing for her to separate from a toxic family.

Witchesandwizards · 01/08/2020 07:25

It’s the first time he’s been and he came straight to me before DH - it felt a bit threatening and almost as if he wanted to speak which is why I then avoided eye contact and was engrossed with my friend. I thought maybe DH had told him I was threatening to tell SIL and he was going to warn me not to. I made sure I was in my group of friends until we left.

He would have known where DH was standing because he would have to have called to find us - it’s chaos - 5 pitches, dark but flood lit, teeming with people.

He took DD off for a walk arm around her shoulder but she said he didn’t say much.

OP posts:
Witchesandwizards · 01/08/2020 07:27

But I could be being paranoid.
I’m all over the place.
And DH did say he feels guilty for his part in our move.

I don’t know.

OP posts:
Thehouseofmarvels · 01/08/2020 07:38

And with the regard to the business..

You were tricked into giving up your job by the trust.

You absolutely deserve to be compensated by the trust for loss of salary you would not have lost if you had had the full facts.

It is very wrong of him to suggest you should not get compensation. You should get compensation just as a person injured in a workplace accident caused by negligent employers should get compensation. If the trust is a business like any other business it might offer compensation if it has caused financial losses.

With regard to the food all game I think BIL was absolutely intimidating you. You have information they don't want shared. They are using fear to keep you compliant. Classic manipulation. A bit like how a gangster family might ask a heavy to stand outside someone's house for a few days, not doing anything. I have seen that in movies. They probably have too. It's subtle fear mongering.

You are a strong person and as long as you keep the fear at bay, you have information they don't want spread and therefore a lot of power.

ThickFast · 01/08/2020 07:39

That sounds really weird about BIL. Was he waiting for you to be on your own?

Thehouseofmarvels · 01/08/2020 07:40

I don't think you are being paranoid.

If that was me I would probably say to him ' your brother is over there don't you want to stand with him '

And if he did not move I would have questioned him about why he prefers to stand with me rather than his own brother'

Mix56 · 01/08/2020 07:41

OK, so he probably hoped to have a private word with you. re his desperately unhappy wife...
Who feels guilty? BIL ?

Thehouseofmarvels · 01/08/2020 07:49

If he wanted to just have a chat alone about SIL he would have just phoned or stood with you husband and just walked over to you at the end and asked to speak to you alone while DH watched the kids, Id have thought ..

Thehouseofmarvels · 01/08/2020 08:06

The dynamics of toxic families are very fragile.

Even if it's not obvious people do often have roles.

If SIL files for divorce she is no longer playing her role.

BIL would have to move back into his mothers house. Him and his brother and his parents! Just like childhood except with constant drinking!

While lucky LA brother in law would lord it up in his own beach house. Until MIL was pressured into buying the both of them new houses probably.

SIL might meet some new man if she split from BIL who helps keep her on the wagon, you never know.

They have everything to loose by SIL finding out. She might loose, during the process of mourning the loss of her marriage. However if she's already desperately unhappy this might give her the excuse she desperately needs to leave.

Thehouseofmarvels · 01/08/2020 08:15

They might think they have you where they want you but we know that nobody puts @Witchesandwizards in a corner!

Witchesandwizards · 01/08/2020 08:26

I'm dangerous to them because I have nothing left to lose.

If push comes to shove, I am ready to tell my parents what is happening and their well being is my only Achilles heel. It's not ideal as I wanted to do it face to face and prove I am ok, but I will have to manage over the phone.

DM has the measure of MIL, (women usually spot these characters before men) and DF will get the financial coercion bit. No one puts his baby in the corner. He will be worried about a few of our family financial things but I have them covered.

OP posts:
Witchesandwizards · 01/08/2020 08:46

@Thehouseofmarvels (are you in NZ b y the way?)
Yes, I guess I should rephrase - I didn't want anything to do with the family assets while I was at home, but now I need to survive and they bloody well owe me. The fact DH has said he can't commit to see the kids midweek because of work, indicates just how hard the childcare/work/sports balance is here. And I would be solo parenting with no support network. What I suspect will happen is that I will get a good deal through my lawyer, and the family will compensate him. After all, LA BIL is living the life of Riley off the back of his parents and other BIL has used the company credit card for all his personal expenses for the last 20 years (a piece of useful info that IRD would be interested in - the company accountant warned him he was behaving as if he had a staff of 80 and there are 6 of them....)

When we first arrived we saw friends who I met in London, but DH went to school with the husband. They now live here. He works in finance and warned us about family businesses, urging DH to formalise everything. He gave us the example of a friend who lived in the UK with his wife and baby. He was asked to return to NZ to run the family business, so resigned his job, sold his house etc and moved back. But when he arrived, his dad and uncles (who shared the business), claimed ignorance and there was no job. He had to find a different job.

OP posts:
Thehouseofmarvels · 01/08/2020 08:56

They are making you all the more dangerous to them by insisting you stay in New Zealand. That gives you much less to loose.

If I were them I would treat you with kid gloves and tell you that you can go back to England and have what you want just please don't tell sister in law. Then you would have something to loose if you told her, permission from DH to take the kids home and him agreeing to a generous divorce settlement.

They think they are smart but they are thick as pig shit because by treating you like crap they are making it more and more likely that you will just spill the beans. They probably think they can keep you mouth shut only by intimidation. But we all know you are a super strong woman who won't be intimidated.. it's perfectly clear even to strangers on the internet that's the case!

I just can't believe they think treating someone with highly damaging information badly is a good idea! Doh

Thehouseofmarvels · 01/08/2020 09:06

I'm not in NZ, I'm in the UK.

Even worse for them if you could get them in trouble with the tax people. They need to get you out of the way and off to England to keep your mouth shut.

Fiancé is not currently in contact with family apart from one harmless sweet person with Down's syndrome but I made it my business to know as much info about the trust and other financial things as I could for the exact reason you are discovering. Certain deaths will probably put us into conflict with them. I don't want them to be able to push us around as DHs family is trying to do to you.

When I read the thread W as soon as you mentioned family trust I was so sure you would discover things like I have, which is why I started going on about digging up info in the trust ect. Knowledge is power basically.

Mix56 · 01/08/2020 09:08

I agree, I would tell H that you can blow the company out of the water at any time, that you can tell SIL what & when you feel like it.
They all lied to Him, & him knowingly to you. You accepting coming the NZ was by his manipulation. You tried, you have no income, & no independence, you are unhappy, more over the kids are unhappy, & their education has gone to shit, he has lost his marriage, his happy social life & friends, better salary & home in the UK, to become a company salesman, with a 40% pay cut, in a company that is exploiting him, BIL has all his spending money on the company, (he doesn't) other brother has a free ticket. You want to go home and will do as soon as possible, he could man up, & agree that his ego, & frankly, stupidity, are responsible for making 3 people unhappy. & while money was never the driving factor, if he doesn't allow you to go home with the DC, & he have them for holidays, then you will screw him & the company for every cent you can make,
He is holding 3 people hostage, it is the price he has decided to pay.

Sssloou · 01/08/2020 09:21

I agree Mix56 with this approach - but it should be done with by the SH lawyer.

Is your end game OP to get yourself and the DCs back to the UK ASAP with his agreement?

Also not sure why he is reminding you that you didn’t want any of the company .... maybe it’s because he knows that you will get more than you think or it will just be hassle for him. If you were in the UK you would be entitled to any assets acquired during the marriage - and his % of the company would count......so even if it is bound up to only be 10% now - I would be going after my 5% - even just as a negotiation tactic...... but would be leaving it to the expert SH lawyer to develop and deliver a strategy to get you the best deal and get you home.

Is that top of your list to push for his permission to let the 3 of you return to the UK? Or have you given up on that?

RandomMess · 01/08/2020 09:47

No advice on how to negotiate but I guess you need your SHL to be absolutely sure of the minimum you will be awarded financially before you reveal your hand of wanting to return to the UK and you will give up your claim in his share of the business for that type of thing.

Witchesandwizards · 01/08/2020 09:53

@Thehouseofmarvels
You are lucky that DH sees who they are. I cannot believe DH is incapable of seeing any of this from my POV. I'm not even asking him to take my side, just acknowledge that I have been wronged. Explain his reasoning. But he continues to attack me.

Yes, I would like to go to the UK with the kids.
If I can do that I want 75% of our family assets (25% for each of us), and he can keep his family shit.
That will enable me to live without a job for a year while Covid settles down as I know finding a new job won't be easy.

Plan B (although I can't see a life for me here) is to stay here and for Superman to fuck them all over, go home as much as possible (screwing up his ability to work when I go alone) and persuade the kids to go to uni in the UK (with the help of my dad's Child Trust Funds). When they are old enough I will also be able to explain just what their dad did and why mummy is so bloody angry!

I also have power in other areas and I'm surprised they haven't cottoned on. One of DD's best friend's family, is close friends with SIL and BIL. None of DD's friend's parents know we have split up yet but it won't be long (as DH has banned sleepovers and play dates on his weekends), and who do you think is going to control the narrative?

Yup. The person who has nothing to lose but who, I think, everyone I've met, likes.

OP posts:
Thehouseofmarvels · 01/08/2020 09:56

You husband has to decide what is worth more to him:

Option A: Allow you to return to the Uk with a settlement that your divorce solicitor believes is fair to you and compensation from the trust for damage and loss of income caused by it.

Option B: You tell SIL the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God. You tell the tax people the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. BIL probably had to move back in with his mother. He may find himself needing to pay both his soon to be ex wife and to pay the tax people for possible false expenses. MIL is now put under pressure to buy both brothers houses because LA brother in law has one. If these are bought in the trust the brothers could ask for houses of the same value as the beach house to be bought and to have some use of them like LA BIL. This would however be a bit expensive for the trust MIL.

Even if your husband does not care what detestation gets causes as long as you stay in the country BIL and MIL will care.

Do you think BIL would prefer you to leave the country and keep your mouth shut?

Or do you think he would support his brother in forcing his ex wife and kids to stay in the country and would be happy to loose his own family and get a tax investigation in order to help his brother punish you?

Thehouseofmarvels · 01/08/2020 10:07

I am lucky with DH having know illusions.

Although as much as his Mum wants to come across as normal the dysfunction is too obvious.

I asked him about the cat in the freezer. He said I'd got mixed up since he told me. The cat is actually in the fridge in formaldehyde to preserve it. Dead cat. Dead since 2016. In Fridge. Alongside food.

At least them doing things like that prevents him from having any illusions of normality thank goodness. That and hitting him constantly and only stopping when he was old enough hit back.

Witchesandwizards · 01/08/2020 10:27

Why? The cat? Words fail me.....

OP posts:
hammie46i · 01/08/2020 10:34

Witchesandwizards, having read your entire threads, I just wanted to say I think you have coped very well with everything that has been thrown your way over the last 6 months and it is so great to see you are feeling more positive.

I do hope and your kids get to go back to the UK, with a very good financial settlement and your DH sees that this whole thing has backfired on him terribly.

As a Brit who has spent a lot of time in NZ and has just gone back permanently with very mixed feelings about it (I'm currently in quarantine in NZ) I was nodding my head at the way you describe this place.

I am also the daughter of a narcissistic parent and DH's family sounds so narcissistic.

Wishing you all the luck in the world going forward x

Thehouseofmarvels · 01/08/2020 10:59

@Witchesandwizards

The cat is just an example of their madness.

MIL also annoyed at something partner said so when he was due to arrive at the house she tore up the birthday and Mother's Day cards he had given her for many years and left them in tiny shreds at the bottom of the stairs. Loads of things like that have happened.

Partner tried going no contact before all the siblings all no contact with him and mostly with each other. but she made their lives a misery and pressured them into telling her where he was.

One time he went to pick up something that he remembered was childhood bedroom recently and she started stalking him down the road, probably planning to find out where he was living. He had to square up to her to get her to go away. He has agreed to get the police involved if anything else happens.

The point I am trying to make is sometimes toxic parents and toxic families will do absolutely anything to keep the status quo. They may well do things that appear totally and completely insane to everyone else.

If you think about it your husbands behaviour in loosing his family and upending his previously comfortable life it is just as mad as putting a cat in the fridge. More so any ways as a cat can be thrown away but the damage he has done is much less reversible.

He has convinced himself that his behaviour is sensible and normal just as my partners family have convinced themselves it's normal to preserve cats in formaldehyde.

The more toxic a family is the more insane the behaviour of its members is.