Best Way To Handle College Age Daughter

[RetiredDad]

Hello. I'm new to this. A little about myself. I'm a recently (April 2020) retired Police Officer. I'm also getting back together with my wife. We divorced after 25 years of marriage. We have been divorced for 5 years and in November of 2019 we decided that I would move back in the house. This unfortunate pandemic served more of a test to see if we are really able to work through the previous issues that ended our marriage in the first place. I have to say that so far it is working. We still love each other very much and we are able to work out our previous problems (also thanks to a quality marriage counselor that doesn't take sides but in fact remains neutral!). The only real problem we are still having is with our College age daughter. Listening to us and using common sense is something our daughter doesn't seem to want to do. She always has to do things uphill and backwards (because she is in her "feelings"). This causes my wife and I to butt heads on solutions. My stance is since she is an adult AND when my wife and I were her age we were already in our careers (my wife is an R.N.) When we had our problems we had to come up with the answers not fall back on our parents to help us or bail us out. I know I'm a little old school with my thinking, but I have tried to keep my antiquated opinions to myself and come up with a practical solution with my wife. I can't seem to do right here with this topic because either my wife says I'm too harsh or I don't offer enough input to help. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

I can’t get over the fact that you said you were unhappy with all three of her decisions, with the third being the heinous crime of...of... getting a dog. What a terrible daughter.

Agree with PPs that you come across as a bit of a control freak. If you don’t want to help her financially, don’t help her financially- that’s absolutely fine. I get the sense that the only reason you ARE helping her financially is because you want some degree of control over her life and you’re annoyed that it hasn’t played out like that.
Also, the fact that you and your wife were in a certain level of your careers at her age isn’t relevant, because obviously things have changed massively in the last 20-30 years in terms of job progression. It’s not as simple now. Even entry-level jobs now tend to require degrees. Which, oddly enough, would be a good, calm reason (not an argument) to present to your daughter for her returning to university.

Okay. Fair enough being upset you've been paying for her schooling and she dropped out. I get it - that's super frustrating. But I will defer back to my last post with advice.

You need to figure out a way to understand your daughter and her choices. Not push your own views and opinions on her

It is not the role of our children to re-live our lives but better.

You cannot advise your daughter into living the perfect (in your eyes) life.

Many people who live the life their parents mapped out for them are dissatisfied - even when materially successful, because it is not their life.

The damage you are causing is palpable in every post but your thinking and belief system on this is so rigid. It's really quite sad

Has your 'quality marriage counsellor' not suggested that you might benefit from reflecting on the ways in which you might have contributed to the marriage breaking down? Because all I'm hearing here is you insisting that you're a nice guy who never put a foot wrong, who supported his wife through an MBA and his daughter through three years of university, and now neither of them is listening to you and doing what you say.

My wife and I got through that part of our marriage counseling session. We are both well aware of why and how the marriage crashed and burned and the parts we each played. As far as listening to me I'm only really having that issue with my daughter. My wife and I communicate much better now.

Incidentally, this post reminds me a bit of my own father, who was an abusive bully and threw tantrums whenever I disagreed with his life plan for me. He was always right, even when he clearly wasn’t. One memorable gem was that I should be studying Liberal Arts rather than Chemistry, because Liberal Arts was more versatile and sought after by employers. Yeah.
There are other, more serious reasons, but this is a part of why I’m not in contact with him anymore. I’d bear that in mind, OP.

Short story we had drifted apart (I never cheated, spoke down to her, or put my hands on her.)

Well that should be a bare minimum, do you want a prize for refraining from beating your wife

She fked someone at her job thus justifying it because I had stopped the positive compliments, flowers just because, etc.

Before I knew it I was handed divorce papers and the rest is history.

Obviously affairs are not okay. I'm also certain that it wasn't a case of not enough bunches of flowers, or that there weren't plenty of warning signs about the breakdown of your marriage.

I bet my bottom dollar it was because you seem to have lost, or never had meaningful soft skills. It sounds like because of American culture and your job, success is important to you in material facts and dollars, and rules, respect and authority are very linear to you. But the reality for you is that it got you divorced and a relationship with your adult daughter that sounds difficult and unfulfilling for you both.

I feel for you, I get that you don't really understand why this has all happened because you thought you were doing all the right things.

The way you talk about your daughter, her partner and your wife horiffied me more the further I read through your posts. I don't think that you are the kind of guy that I would go for a cold soda with, at all.

My suggestions;

1. Learn a different definition of respect. Stop imposing archaic authoritarian views of how you think a daughter (and a wife?) should respect you. The type of respect you're used to demanding as a police officer is VERY different to the way you're going to get respect as a partner and father. It cannot be demanded or forced. You have to earn the right to it and even then there's no passing out parade or certificate, you can't force somebody to respect you and you have to accept that it's their free will.

2. Build trust. Trust is a huge part of the above, both you trusting that their sovereignty is taking them on a path you might not have chosen for them but that is right for them, and you showing up in the capacity they need you to, reliably and consistently enough to build their trust.

3. stop doing the things that are disrespectful. Stop referring to your daughter's boyfriend as a little guy pot head. Just use his name instead (or invent a pretend name for him for the purposes of anonymity here - Dave, or John). Stop referring to your daughter as won't listen when she asks for and gets your advice and then makes an informed decision that isn't what you'd choose. Asking for advice is in no way a contract to do as advised, but it doesn't mean she didn't listen to and consider it.

4. most importantly, go on a course or something to get better at the soft skills.The art of empathy. Of listening. Of communicating skillfully. Develop more compassion. Of being present and holding space for another without trying to fix it. Emotional intelligence. Self-regulation, and self-compassion. Of asking and listening. Of humility. Of openness and vulnerability as a good,
   vital way of relating. Apply what you learn to your relationships. Just as you would looking after a wildflower meadow, your relationships may look static but they are continuously growing and evolving, and need regular input with water, fertiliser and some pruning to thrive. In this case think of holding back on the lawnmower and allowing the wild grass to look a bit messy to you, for the sake of the flowers, the bees and the whole ecosystem. That make sense?

Yes it all sounds very similar to my father whattime.
I have no contact with him anymore because of his tantrums, along with all the other narcissistic behaviour.
I can see this very similar in the OP posts, my father could have written this. That's why I am trying to say how it could be for the daughter and if he wants a good relationship with her to back off and think

I was going to type something else but I have just heard a comment my husband has said to one of his work colleagues in a Teams meeting...

“She has two jobs lined up but coronavirus put paid to that and her whole future has been ripped away. She has applied for a waitressing job in a hotel up the road but even getting that would be a win/win at the moment.”

Daughter is 21 and has graduated with a First in History. Just getting on the work ladder is a challenge in itself this year. Your daughter is a manager of a shop. I think that’s bloody brilliant, actually.

A friend’s daughter turned down two scholarships in the USA: Harvard and Yale. She went to North Eastern as she said she was more suited to NE. My friend and her husband supported their daughter with this decision. After graduating the daughter spent three months kayacking down a river with one change of clothes in a backpack. Not one word of judgement, just support.

My half sister was berated by our father for being useless. At the age of 20 she had dropped out of college and was working in a shop. But then something clicked in her head at the age of 23/24, she secretly went to an adult learning college, obtained professional qualifications and now is a star in her field. Her life. Her choices.

What I’m trying to say is that life doesn’t go according to plan and you have to let some things go and be flexible. Yes, you have to pick up the pieces, but that is what parents do.

It’s repulsive how you speak of your family - your wife who “f**ked a guy from work” and “using common sense is something our daughter doesn't seem to want to do”, not to mention the insults towards the boyfriend (a little man who can’t reach the kitchen faucet??!)

You deserve no better than for the three of them to develop enough self esteem (which I’m sure you’ve done plenty to crush over the years) to walk away from you.

And sorry, but being an American policeman is hardly something that automatically earns global respect these days.

To be honest you come across as controlling. She's an adult.

You say her mother relaxed curfews, doing the maths she was 17 approx at the time, what 17 year old has a curfew. She's at university and you are moaning she's moved in with her boyfriend? That's normal behaviour (the dog is a mistake but they need to learn themselves). Yes you offered to pay but it can't have such stringent conditions attached she's an adult.

She may also be worried her mother is making a mistake, you don't allude time your reasons for divorce or reconciliation, I just hope the latter isn't because you couldn't find a better option!

And you won't let her boyfriend stay, again controlling, she's an adult! I have two student DD's one the same age as yours, the other a little younger, I know it's hard to let go but you must

OP I do think you have got a tough time on here. But some of it is deserved.

I live in Scotland but have knowledge of Westchester, used to live there a long time ago. I think there is a mixture of you living in a very middle class area, and you having this cop attitude that is making it difficult to deal with your daughter.

You want her to do well, and keep up with the Joneses, to use a UK term. You want her to be a good reflection on you in how well she does. Maybe college wasn't for her, and maybe managing the ice cream store is making her happy. However, I can understand why you'd be annoyed at forking out a ton of money to pay for college when she could have had a scholarship. That being said, that was a decision you and your wife made earlier, and did not need to do.

The other issue is your old fashioned parenting style. I think that you are used to being the person in charge, the person listened to, and expect that your advice should be followed to the letter. This is not going to happen with an adult child.

I can appreciate your frustration with your wife trying to drag you into situations where it is quite clear your advice is not really wanted by your daughter.

The best thing you can do is just relax a little. Offer your opinion but don't expect that it will be taken as gospel.

OP you sound like a nasty 'little' man tantruming because his 'little's women aren't towing the line.

I would be upset if my child dropped out of college because I think it would be better if they got their qualifications. But kids and adults make mistakes or maybe it isn't a mistake and she was very mature in realising that another year of doing a course she hates would just waste more time. Who knows? You certainly don't because she doesn't speak to you.

My successful youngest brother (he is a self made manufacturer) and his wife got a dog in their 20s when they were working super long days and he had to get up very early to walk it, and when he got home he had to go on another walk. Absolutely the wrong time to get one. But they are adults who have to make their own decisions.

We all make decisions that aren't the best for us if we look at it in purely practical terms (I mean I have 4 kids, talk about my career taking a massive hit) but life isn't just about practicalities, it is about love and friendship and fun and experiences and interests etc. We aren't just robots supposed to lead a certain path in life.

FWIW my eldest is considering joining the police and I would prefer he didn't. I would much rather he went to college and learned some more, had fun and enjoyed everything I did before starting work in earnest. But at the end of the day it is his life and as long as he's happy then I don't mind what he does. And like I keep telling him, nothing he decides now is set in stone. Sometimes you have to try things to know whether they're for you or not.

Have a look at all these messages from women from all different parts of the world and realise that we can see exactly the type of person you are, just from the language you've used. Don't try and justify and defend becaus either isn't working for you. Your wife obviously loves you but found comfort elsewhere and your daughter doesn't confide in you. You can still turn it around and have a good relationship with them. Acknowledge that they are adults with their own brain and have a right to make their own decisions. Acknowledge that a woman moving in with her boyfriend and getting a pet and having a job isn't a failure but something that should be admired. Br supportive when she needs it - christ, I'm supportive of my friends in their 40s when they complain about the same stuff and when they've never heeded advice, I'm sure going to be supportive of my children!

Or carry on being the way you are and further alienating the most important people in your life.

You are one of those who get annoyed when someone else doesn't follow your supposedly superior way of life.

As someone whose dad didnt care much about them, I admire you want the best for your daughter. I also get it you feel she has messed up.

But she is an adult and her choices now are hers. I think you are going to butt heads until you accept this.

I also think she did not tell you about her plans to drop out because she knew you would not understand or respect her decision.

She's making her own way in the world.she may return to college at a later date, she may not. But this is her life. Hers. Not her life subject to your approval.

Also to add, you have made your choices in life. You wouldn't ask your daughter for her approval?
So now she's no longer a child, why does she need yours?
Your love and your support absolutely. But not your approval.
Even if you think she's doing the wrong thing, it's not your place to control that. She can't live up the these expectations

@FloutMyArse
And sorry, but being an American policeman is hardly something that automatically earns global respect these days
That was uncalled for.

I feel sure we have a lot of posters whose DCs are under 10 and they have some image of the free, but fun parent they will be as their DCs grow up.
If DD gets in tow with a waster/ flunks uni/ ruins her chances of earning a decent living it has lifelong consequences -all the anecdotes about how well someone did despite not going to uni don't change the fact the odds are better if you do complete your degree, even if you don't like the subject, it shows brains and determination.
The world, (particularly the USA) is not a happy place for poor or unemployable people.
All my DCs got through uni, didn't move in with a waster, have well paid jobs and can provide for their own families now - it was made clear what was expected of them and they performed and have good independent lives. Which is what the OP probably wants for his DD.

They performed?
Imagine if they hadn't, how would you cope with that?
The OPs daughter is not performing to her expectations and he is struggling with that. How does he 'handle ' her when she is living a life he hasn't planned for her.
A plan maybe she didn't agree to or had much choice in. It's her life, not his.

Honestly as a child of parents who separated and then got back together years later I need to tell you that it does change the relationship. I can never fully trust that they will not put me through that again and I was exposed to their marriage crisis in a way I should not have been. It has totally altered our relationship on a deeper level on my part and I suspect that they do not see that. You repairing your marriage is a positive for you but you also need to give that same attention and thought to your dd.

@Bluemoooon

My children are 15 and 22 and I've said the same as everyone else.

And they performed

I got a first class degree and a masters. My son is on course for a first class degree and my daughter is looking into a modern apprenticeship in STEM for after her GCSEs.

It's possible to have successful and respectful children without an authoritarian approach to parenting.

Of course it is, I agree.

But children aren't performers for their parents. They aren't there to live out expectations of their parents.

Your children have prob have done well because they have been supported.

Ops wording is 'how to handle ' his daughter. Like she's a naughty child.
She seems to be living her life and doing ok. She has a job, somewhere to live and a partner of her choice.
It's just not what the OP wants.
She may go back to college. Maybe she's taking some time to respond to her parents getting back together and all the issues a divorce brings etc

Aerial2020

Yep, I totally agree with you. I think most of us are saying the same thing. In fact, only one poster is coming at this from the OP's perspective!

OP, you've encountered some pretty savage hostility on here, from the get-go. But the fact that you have come on a parenting forum to ask questions, the fact that you go to a therapist, and a marriage counsellor, the fact that your wife trusted your capacity to change enough to reconcile after a divorce and five years apart, all say good things about your desire to improve matters in your family.

It seems like you're really frightened that your daughter won't make it in a difficult, competitive world. You've tried to do your best to provide well for her and maximise her chances, and you're worried that she's letting opportunity slip through her fingers. I understand the frustration, and it is maddening when adolescent and young adult children don't seem to want to take on board the lessons of their parents' experience and hard-won wisdom. Your daughter will gain her own wisdom, though, she really will. But if you want to remain part of her life, you have really got to switch mode now from knowledgeable and directing parent to listening and questioning (not cross-examining!) She's found a job (good for her) and taken on the responsibility of an apartment and a dog (good for her). Has she left university or is she combining work and study? Can she take a year (or more) out of her degree? Maybe she needs to work and meet a new network of people and build more life-skills and confidence? If her major is in international business, maybe she'd like to do a language module alongside it? With the coming home in tears about decisions that haven't worked out, it sounds like she's finding some aspects of life hard (who doesn't) but that she still trusts her parents enough to seek comfort and help from you. Which is good, no? Just don't blow this bit of trust by being overbearing or judgemental or impatient - she doesn't necessarily know this reaction stems from fear for her. She just thinks you think she's useless, not measuring up, letting you down. Imagine thinking that about someone you love. It would make you feel awful, wouldn't it? Do you want that for your daughter?

A bit of weed is not your thing, nor mine, but it's very common nowadays and arguably less dangerous than alcohol.

I would talk to your therapist about your daughter. I would say to your wife, quite honestly, "I'm feeling out of my depth here. I would like you to take the lead, I don't know what to do or how to react for the best, and I seem to make things worse, so I am going to try just listening and being supportive in that way." Maybe you and your wife could visit a family counsellor together and discuss a joint approach?

Good luck, I agree that being a parent presents its challenges at every age, but compared with late adolescence/moving towards adulthood, the early years are easy! But there's a lot you can do even at this stage to influence your relationship with your daughter for the better (or worse). You have to be willing to change and listen.