Adult daughter causing major family rows

[Pammiee]

Our 20 year-old daughter is perpetually messy and it's causing more and more horrible fights between her, my husband and I. Husband is overly aggressive to the point of being verbally abusive so I try to calm things and he feels I'm taking her side. I know it's in part my fault as I've always tidied up after her (when she was younger I wasn't working and I like things tidy so was happy to let her away with being messy) but now recognise I've encourgaed her to be disrespectful of both me and my husband even though she's genuinely a good and caring person and respectful in other people's homes. Now with Covid and all 3 of us being home it's reached critical point and all 3 of us feel victims and defensive to the point of being unable to discuss in a reasonable manner. Can anyone recommend a family therapist who could help?

Where is the mess?
Is it in her room, or does she leave communal rooms messy too?
If it’s communal rooms I would put her stuff together and say to her, calmly, “oh Leah, please can you take your things up to your room, thanks.” If she’s about to go upstairs even hand it to her so there is no excuse.

I’ve got my 19yr old DD back home from Uni and can’t stand the mess she’s making but thankfully it’s mostly concentrated in her room - I dread her coming out!

Is it her room that is messy? My teens live in skips. I go potty if they leave stuff around the communal space.

What’s the bigger issue , her mess or your husband being verbally agressive

What bothers you more ?

It's hard to be sure, but from the limited info given my sympathies are with your DD. Being messy isn't the end of the world. Being aggressive and verbally abusive is far worse. I think he's the one who needs to change.

Would he agree to go to anger management?

As you say “ our daughter “ I am assuming that your husband is her father ? Not that it really makes a difference as you say he is being aggressive and verbally abusive , which is out of order.

Also need to know where the mess is. If it’s abandoned coats, bags and cardigans I’d just scoop them up and put them in her room. Or is it food prep stuff in the kitchen and soggy cotton wool balls in the bathroom? That’s harder to deal with.

I agree with the idea of letting her have a messy room though.

She isn’t causing rows, she’s messy. My ds’s room is disgusting whilst DD’s room is immaculate.
Your dh needs to reset his expectations or try and focus on something else. Verbally abusive? That’s the problem here, not your dd.

I think she’s entitled to privacy and her own space so if it’s just her bedroom then she should be able to keep the door shut and whatever happens in there is up to her. But - this only works if she’s paying rent. Does she contribute financially? It’s all part of learning to be an adult. If the mess is in other parts of the house then yes she should tidy up - kitchen etc, bathroom etc should be cleaned on a rota or she can’t live with you. I’d be quite harsh about it.

Husband is overly aggressive to the point of being verbally abusive so I try to calm things and he feels I'm taking her side.

I'd say the bigger issue is your verbally aggressive husband. You seem to be ignoring that.

Google family counselling near me and it will come up with a list of places.

I don’t think there is a family therapist who will be able to help you with a verbally abusive husband.

Where is this mess? Your husband doesn’t sound great.

Husband is overly aggressive to the point of being verbally abusive so I try to calm things and he feels I'm taking her side.

Is this not the real problem? You shouldn’t have to be calming your husband down. He shouldn’t be abusive.

It is weird that you are focusing on your daughter making a mess rather than your husband being verbally abusive

What do you mean exactly by verbally abusive?

I think it would be really helpful to get some more details.

Is your husband having a bit of a grump because your daughter has left a trail of destruction through the whole house, or is he screaming at her because she hadn’t made her bed?

Probably somewhere in between but a couple of examples would help.

TBH at 20, assuming there are no special needs, she should very largely confine her mess to her own room - and keep the door shut so that your dh can’t see into it.

I’d just tell her! Very firmly. And I had two messy dds whose bedroom doors were nearly always closed, to protect the despairing eyes of dh, who used to swear that if we ever moved, there’d be no wardrobes/drawers for either of them - no point when they just used the floor for ‘storage’.

As a messy person I always wonder why neat people always feel it's their right to enforce their view to the detriment of mine?

I'm clean, just messy. I don't care if you wish to be a complete neat freak but I've got better things to do with my time than constantly tidy up.

Your husband needs to understand that he's not always right. That other opinions are valid and being verbally agressive is completely unacceptable. Also, I do think that at 20 you probably should look to move out of your house and look after yourself, but that's my view...

As a messy person I always wonder why neat people always feel it's their right to enforce their view to the detriment of mine?

I'm clean, just messy. I don't care if you wish to be a complete neat freak but I've got better things to do with my time than constantly tidy up

Because your mess adds to other people’s work loads and impacts other people’s living space.

OP COVID has probably brought lots of families to critical point. But this is fixable.

Your dd needs to be told that if she can’t respect the house then she needs to move out it’s that simple. She is an adult. She can have her bedroom like a complete shithole but the rest of the house needs to be respected. And I’d absolutely reinforce it but actively loving for places for her to move in to. Adults of 20 should be looking at spreading their wings and leaving the family near by this point.

Regarding your husband - is he verbally aggressive to you too or is this a new thing regarding your dd? Because if he has always been like this then he needs to go too.

Your daughter can always tidy up, your dh can't undo the damage from verbal abuse.

Can you give examples of his behaviour?

Well I’d tell her to buck up her ideas, stop being lazy, idle and disrespectful to the pair of you. She’s not a child anymore and needs to take responsibility for her own actions.

Explain that she’ll have to find her own place if she doesn’t adhere to your house rules etc... and then she’ll realise how unreasonable she has been.

She’s taking the piss....

It depends if her mess extends outside of her room, if it does fair enough, but again no need for a screaming match.
I have learnt not to sweat the small stuff. One of mine was home during lockdown and there were a few things that irritated me, one being his inability to wash up after himself. In the end I gave up complaining as it was easy for me to wash a copule of extra items.
At the end of the day I was pleased to have his company during lockdown and it was a small sacrifice to pay for having a pleasant atmosphere in the home.
I am not saying I am right, I was doing what worked for me.

@Babesinthewud what do you recommend for the abusive husband?