Dating Thread 191 - Daters Gonna Date

[JeSuisPrest]

Props to @HairyArsedMan for the thread title - hopefully we'll be able to start dating again normally soon - grabbing a coffee, drink, dinner whatever. I wonder how many hours walking around parks, we've racked up on the last couple of threads.

The Rules:

1. The first rule about the dating thread is don't talk about it with people you're dating.
2. Develop a thick skin.
3. Do not invest emotionally too soon.
4. It's all BS until it actually happens.
5. Trust your gut instinct.
6. People vanishing, lying & being generally weird is not your fault.
7. Know your worth.
8. If it's not fun, stop.
9. Loo update is mandatory.

10. No dating the thread. 11. Treat others as you'd like to be treated 12. Any relationship you have that could get ruined by having a conversation about your feelings, standards and/or expectations wasn't really stable enough to begin with 13. The things you choose to ignore/ tolerate now are the reasons you will break up in the future 14. OLD can get very time consuming. Keep doing other activities you enjoy.

Optional: Please give your irons (potential dates you are talking to) nicknames like Mr Scottish. Initials are allowed (Mr S) when you are an item.

@PurpleMackington I don't often post here, but I do read a lot. And when I have posted the advice on here is so helpful. @Menora has spoken so much sense.

I have recently come out of something after 22 months. We met online and totally clicked. We met up, didn't stop talking, it all felt so different. We had sex on the second date and it was incredible. He made it very clear from the outset he didn't want anything serious. The time wasn't right, he was busy with work, etc, etc. I felt the same at the time as I was mid divorce. However as time went on my feelings changed. After about 6 months I knew he was special to me. We had a great time together - weekends away, nights in, walks, dinner and of course the sex was still amazing. Fast forward about 18 months and I told him I loved him. He told me he cared about me, but he couldn't tell me he loved me. Throughout all of this time he always had an excuse as to why it would remain casual, and I went along with that as I felt eventually he'd change his mind and realise he does love me. He also never really showed any emotion. We talked. He gave me gifts. But he didn't even tell me he liked me. He never did fall for me, and he dumped me a month ago. In a five minute phone call. I was devastated.

People on here recommended a few books which have really helped me understand what happened. Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl could be my story. It has been so helpful to read as I can now see why it should have ended a long time ago. He was never going to change.

I don't want to rain on your parade. And this guy sounds lovely. But I'm very wary of anyone who doesn't want anything serious but will still happily sleep with you. This is the situation I was in and I now feel very used. Please be careful. I really don't want you to get hurt.

The same happened to me for 18 months. I had a realisation suddenly at 1 year in when I took him out for the day, it was so lovely and beautiful day somewhere I love, lying on the grass holding hands and I plucked up the courage to talk to him about us. He couldn’t give me any answers. I had already told him I loved him late at night, cuddling naked together after sex and he never said it back but I kept hoping.

We limped on for another 6 months and ended in a 2 message, 1 paragraph text message and never spoke again. I was so angry, with myself as much as him

Oh and I had spent all those 18 months going to his kids birthday parties, meeting his family, taking his daughter to hockey practice etc etc. All the indications of a serious RS... I assumed. Wrongly

@Menora thats awful Menora, did he ever explain why or was he just coasting along?

No not really. My mistake was always assumption. I accepted he didn’t find it easy to talk about things. Assuming he had the same feelings, but if you don’t clarify them and make sure you are on the same page it’s really easy to spend a year or so of your life with someone who doesn’t love you sees no future with you but just likes having the girlfriend experience. I think he was very happy to settle for what he could get with the first person to come along, with the least effort involved rather than keep dating around and have to take any risks. I never challenged him because his actions led me to believe he would have the same feelings for me at some point

I also think he was still very involved emotionally with his wife, although she had a new partner. He should not have been dating me to get over her, firstly it didn’t work did it and secondly I got hurt

Love that observation @Menora about “someone can appear casual whilst being very much in control”

If I had 1 pound for every time I’ve heard a man be described as ‘very laid back’ I would be quite rich.

Then often later on it comes out that they are so laid back they have managed to control the whole narrative of the relationship by being unbelievably apathetic, non decisive and non committal about you, making sure they carry on with what they like doing - aka meeting all their own needs and none of anyone else’s.

That’s the control

@Menora you make so much sense and exactly the kind of friend I like to have in my life 😁

I don’t want to seem negative I am not anti men

I just want people who are vulnerable to be careful and take care of themselves

I do worry there are a lot of men and women who do take advantage of people’s kind and trusting nature

in @PurpleMackington’s case my concern is that he is looking for a ‘slot in’ someone who will be super understanding that he has no weekends free, tag along to his child activities as a ‘friend’ (which builds intimacy and relationships with the DC) and then he can dip in and out when he has free time but with no commitment

The DC thing should not happen that is bad on his part. The free time thing and no commitment is absolutely fine if you want that as well. You must keep busy with your own friends and life I agree

Yeh exactly that @Menora

I think it’s SO easy (especially looking for human connection with new people, whether it’s friends or dates) to assume everyone you have a good conversation with who isn’t a nutter and wants to stay in touch has your best interests at heart.

Sitting in at night alone can suck, we’re social creatures at heart.

I also think as a single intelligent woman it’s hard to find good local supportive friends and social networks.

But realistically there’s a lot of people who are intelligent, polite predators?

They’re socially cunning and good at assessing others quickly, secretly finding out what resources you have

Time? Contacts? A kind personality? A home they can come to on a weekend to get fed and sex?

And then manipulate you into getting access to those resources.

But of course they know if they said directly “I just want to pretend to be your friend as you’re pretty and well spoken and can get me access to parties” or “I don’t want to be your partner but you’ll do for sex as I have a heavy schedule and you have a convenient home” they’d get told to fuck off.

So they put on the whole innocent/casual/laid back front whilst playing social games.

These posts are really eye opening! I am glad to read all this now at the start of my dating life as it’s so easy to be sucked in like you said @Bunkbedpeople ... But realistically there’s a lot of people who are intelligent, polite predators? very interesting

I personally find this all a bit worrying! Not every man is like this.

They are absolutely not @Eesha I agree. There are plenty of women who also are resource focused too!

I think here I was just talking about the ‘laid back’ type of guy who can appear to be confident and enjoying going along with the flow, whilst being quite intense (lots of long calls, messages, very strong ‘connection’) giving off vibes of maybe he will fall for you, maybe he’s not ready yet kind of vague and how to be careful not to fall into the trap of thinking that he’s going to give you more one day, whilst you slot into his needs and wants.

That’s all where I was going with it.
Being all intense and very focused on one person whilst telling them you don’t want anything serious doesn’t match up does it

I think @menora is bang on the money here. To me it's fishy to say you want to be causal. Introduce you to his kids. And see you 3 or 4 days out of 5. Something quite manipulative to me about the apology for kissing you in case it led you on. Doesn't sit right with me. Of course not all men are like this. Or we wouldn't still all be dating and hopeful.

Menora, you're spot on. Some out of a long marriage may not see some of these behaviours but many of us long time daters can identify.

My last couple of partners wanted to move in with me very soon,one after a few months. Looking back I found it flattering but now realise it's because they just wanted a place to stay and paid high rent and knew i'm a good cook and own my own place :/ I have a few friends who also attract cocklodgers but it takes time in the dating game to know who is genuine and won't rush you. They all seemed laidback and 'go with the flow sorts' .
I think I've gone off the original topic here,just having a rant!

Yeh, I don’t feel any need overall to be paranoid or stand-offish, just play it by ear.

(I’m hoping to go away for a couple days with one of my irons, happy to have physical contact soon if it feels right)

Honestly I’ve met some great people on online dating and had great social experiences I wouldn’t have had otherwise.

I think there’s just some types (like most areas of life) who are good at secretly collecting information and playing people’s emotions/using timing/coming out with the right things at the right time who don’t have your best interests at heart.

It’s not just a Male on female thing - I know some controlling women who are very possessive over men they’ve briefly dated but don’t want as boyfriends.

But they still want to “use” them (especially if the guy is emotionally supportive and has good financial/social status/good job) so they’ll “randomly” turn on the flirting or suddenly want to reconnect if they think the guy is moving on and dating new people?

Its not wrong not to be attracted to someone or not see them as partner material or not want to stay in touch (or even to be a shit date)

but it’s very unpleasant to intentionally do “just enough” to someone to stay in touch/lead them on/control them emotionally and stop them moving forward in life.

Of course on the apps you’re exchanging details with new people, having all these chats, maybe they can find your details on social media so can see who you’re friends with and what your social life looks like.

Based on your job title they can guess your income status, based on your address they’ll know if you’re a homeowner. It’s not hard to find out.

@Menora the control thing is absolutely spot on. Mine was so laid back, or so he liked to say. He used to arrange everything we did with the excuse "you do so much in your own life, organising your kids and working, so I want to do this for you". Bullshit. It was control. Anything I ever suggested, and we did, was usually met with "that was fun, but...". It's only since he dumped me that I can see it. Control and passive aggressive. I know not all men are like that. And I think I was easy pray at the time, mid divorce and vulnerable. I loathe him for what he did and I will never fall into that trap again. @Menora at least you existed in his world and met his friends and family. My guy only introduced me to one couple he knows. I never met his family or any friends. He never even linked with me on social media. And he certainly didn't tell colleagues about me. I felt like a dirty secret.
I know there are some good men out there. But when you are not paying attention it's very easy to get caught up and swept along by someone who'll do anything to get regular sex.

No idea how I made half of that bold!!

It’s ok on the web page @TomHardysBitontheside. And sorry that bloke treated you so poorly.

Been lurking for a few months. Gained so much insight here! Just wanted some advice. Met a guy on POF and will be our 6th date this weekend. I will be divorced within the next fortnight but do still live in the 'family'home. Why do I feel so weird about him potentially coming over to mine (kids won't be here of course)? I've def no remaining feelings for stbexh and I really like this guy... is it just something I need to do to reclaim this house as MY home?

@karma1979

I think nerves are usual before any intimate situation with a guy you like, or any big changes in life really - it would be weird if they weren’t there?

If you’re getting on fine and there’s no red flags hopefully it will just be fun, he’ll put you at ease, be a good guest, and it will end more chilled out than being “out out”!

Quick update on Mr Surprises. After texting all day yesterday, he told me he’s aware he’s been very closed and it’s because he can’t see why I like him. His words were “I wouldn’t find me attractive if I were a woman so cant see why somebody as beautiful as you would” I asked if that was why he was so closed off and he said yes.

I think we talked it out so we’ll see what happens next I guess.

@MummyGoingItAlone
its good he has been honest with you but please try not to make your validation his happiness.

I think @Menora had someone who put himself down a lot and almost expected her to boost his confidence.

It is not our job to boost their confidence at the detriment of our own happiness, hopedully he will step up but if he doesnt you have to decide if its worth it.

@SortingItOut oh absolutely. He comes across very self assured so I was surprised he said it. He’s upped his fame so we’ll see. I’m not invested so happy to see what happens