Marriage died as soon as we had a baby

[53Capland]

I am conflicted what to do and need advice from people who aren't biased.
I was with a man who I absolutely adored and who treated me like a princess. After 3 years with him I got pregnant and we got married. We went through a lot of difficult situations but then we gave birth to a beautiful daughter last year.
She is amazing but my husband just treats me like crap ever since she was born. He never listens to me, never cares about my feelings, never considers what I want and talks to me like I am his daughter's nanny not her mother. He barely ever makes love to me, kisses and cuddles are now just for our baby and not for me.
I cannot see the positives in our marriage at all and am confused whether I would be better single or should I put up with this bad marriage for my daughter baring in mind, he doesn't treat me badly nor is he a bad man, he just neglects me and doesn't care about anything I do at all no matter how much I try to talk to him about it.
Can anyone else relate to this?

Lol , yeah I don't think he would take that so well , if it helps I don't always expect a reply unless it's made you think or want to talk about something more, and I'm sure everyone else thinks the same.

I know thanks but I do think if I reply with agree or disagree whether people's responses are relevant to my situation it helps other readers get a better picture and offer helpful feedback to me. It isn't easy to understand someone's relationship from a forum and people often like to hate on a man because the woman is upset when there might be more to the story.
I am totally open to the idea that I might be oversensitive or that I am contributing to the difficulties we do have in our marriage or that maybe it is an abusive marriage and I should leave but these opinions need to be based on actual events and not assumptions. To be fair I expected people to just hate on him and tell me to leave which wouldn't help. I never use forums and am surprised how most comments seem to actually understand the situation rather well even if I do feel there is more negativity on him than he probably deserves.
And also, not to defend him, I do believe Narcs don't know they behave that way and it is not their fault as they have just developed that personality over their life, it isn't chosen and although I shouldn't have to put up with feeling crap because my husband rejected my feelings, he also isn't a bad person, the same as someone with tourettes cannot be blamed for offending someone. This may cause people to say I am being weak and he has no right to be like that blah blah but I did know he was bossy and controlling when I dated him and I liked it and even now, I don't dislike he is like that, I just hate that he doesn't acknowledge what I want nor give me his attention.
Seeing all these messages written down I can imagine people have a pre-conceived idea that I am this vulnerable woman who has had a difficult life and this bully charmed her and it isn't quite like that.
Or am I just in serious denial the same as him (that is a joke, I'm honestly ok, I just could do with knowing other people's experiences so I am armed with the knowledge I need.)

Yas01 Sun 14-Jun-20 17:10:15

Dear 53capland,
I agree with the other posters saying your husband may have npd. I'm also married to someone like this. I really believed he was my best-friend, supportive of me. He was my everything. As soon as I had my daughter (12yrs ago) I became irrelevant. Same scenario as yours. Fast forward 12years, he has set the tone of how I am to be treated by my children. I don't have a voice or an opinion. Mum doesn't matter. My children don't respect or listen to me about anything. My daughter treats me with contempt (although she loves me). People who have npd don't ever change. There are some good days. Men like this see a wife as a non-entity. If you feel you are strong enough to stay in a marriage like this, then I wish you all the best. Maybe you will be strong enough to stay in a loveless marriage. No one wants a broken home for their children. However, being made to feel rubbish on a daily basis is no way to live and the narcissistic cycle continues through the children.

I am so sorry you are going through this. And this is what I am worried about if your experience went this way then mine could too. It sounds like you are still with him, would you like to leave? Can you? Or are you commited to avoiding divorce? I would be very interested to understand what this is like for you as someone who has been through it a long time.

Narcissism is developed as a young child , it is next to impossible to overcome. And although I feel a great amount of empathy for people who are narcissists because they are victims too , I would never , never have one in my life ( been there got the t-shirt)

I've heard it described as a wounded lion, would you want to get close to tend to their injury .... Or do you keep yourself safe because potentially they will rip you apart. Anyway. You're still just thinking about all this . If you want my advice start reading, start watching videos , start asking questions. Decide if he does have NPD, it's not always what it seems. Once you're further down the road then think again.

lazylinguist Sun 14-Jun-20 17:18:01

I think "treating you like a princess" at the beginning - which you take as a positive - was actually a red flag.

Very much this. I always think that when I hear a woman use that phrase about a partner. Treating you like a princess is a false and calculated thing that some men decide to do in order to get what they want. And when they have what they want (sex or children or whatever), they drop the act. A genuine man who loves you would treat you like an equal, not like a princess.

Agreed but it always felt genuine and he has a past of being a wonderful caring man who took great care of women in his family and friends when they needed him. He can be very very caring. And to be honest, he never stopped with the act, he just transferred it to our daughter. He does seem to enjoy taking care of a woman but can only manage one at a time lol.

ChaoticMinds Sun 14-Jun-20 17:21:15

Sounds incredibly similar to my ex husband. He was also from a different cultural background to me and I think as soon as I gave birth he stopped seeing me as a woman worthy of his love and attention and started seeing me as mum and maid, because that's how his mum and dad were and he was unconsciously repeating history. Also culturally marriage is very much an economic/convenience decision rather than based on love.

It got so bad and I ended up so neglected that we eventually divorced. It's sad, I loved him so much but I was desperately lonely. My sister recently said that I used to look so depressed and unhappy that she was really worried about me.

Since we divorced he has become more and more difficult to co-parent with and more and more abusive to me and now barely ever shows his face. It's very upsetting and I have huge guilt because he and the dc used to be so close and he doted on them. They miss him terribly.

To be honest I really don't know what the solution is. I would have died of loneliness I think, had I stayed. So I am better off out of the marriage but my children have suffered. I'm sorry I can't advise. I think if you still love each other it is worth giving it a final shot and putting all your effort into changing things.

Thank you for this, this also sounds very much like him from the first half of your message. In hindsight, are you happier now or do you wish you had stayed and tried to make it work?

Detach. Get turned off. Line up your ducks as they say. He wont suddenly see your value if he has gone off you / devalued you.

If you are not ready to leave, stop "trying" to please him.. dont get dressed up. Dont seduce him. Geez. Get on with being a mother. He is not a keeper. It is shocking when you realise this after having a baby but it has to be faced. Father of yr child, but not a keeper.

Start researching what you would do if you were to leave

All very much noted and I am currently wondering whether I should put more effort into trying to find ways to make our marriage work or whether I should, as you suggest, stop trying and see where that takes me. My worry is that once a woman gives up on her marriage there is no turning back and when there is no effort being put in, it becomes habitual to not care about each other and that can be even more damaging if we drag on like that which often happens to couples.

Oh and just one last thought , and this is just a thought.... He could be using triangulation between you and your daughter . It is not always used as a way to create romantic jealousy... It's a way of using something to put you in your place... That other person/thing deserves my attention more than you do.

I think you need to do a LOT of reading and thinking because .... You aren't just thinking about keeping a narcissist husband, but a narcissistic father and stepfather as well. And if you consider having another child with someone you believe to be narcissistic.... Just read about the effects of narcissistic parents, it can be truly awful.

And you won't see the problem now , you will see it when the child starts to develop their own personality, that is when the narcissistic parent shows their true self in that relationship . Good luck.

Checkingcrosses866 - All you have said above is spot on again, especially how he has felt about me through our relationship.
I do have to take some blame as all my fathers to my 3 children were Narcs (1 was so bad it didn't even last the birth of my child, he was very possessive and had a temper which I did not tolerate but it was actually him who left as he didn't like that I am strong myself and wouldn't take it.)
I guess I must like the attention that Narcs give, they can be the best boyfriends ever for a while lol
I was with a man for 12 years who wasn't a narc but he was actually worse than the rest for neglecting me emotionally so I can't seem to win!
Relationships suck! Ii just wish I could rub a lamp and a genie tell me whether I should try harder, relax but stay or leave entirely. I have a sneaking suspicion none of the choices would really make me feel happy that's what is confusing me the most.

Checkingcrosses866 - No triangulation doesn't sound like him. He seems entirely genuine in his treatment of our daughter and thinks his overparenting is normal and he genuinely doesn't understand why I am upset at the moment. I think he thinks I am going through an oversensitive phase that will pass and that it is not down to anything he is or isn't doing.
What causes a narc because he came from a very loving, large, happy family though his parents were very over protective.

Well , you probably do have the kind of personality that attracts narcissists. Boundaries are your friend . Narcissists "test" potential mates by seeing how strong their boundaries are . They will ask you to do something that makes you feel uncomfortable , if you so it , you pass the test. If you don't they will move on.

Things for you to look at

Trauma bonds and how they are formed

Intermittent reinforcement

Co dependency

Boundary setting

Gaslighting

Triangulation

Narcissistic rage

Just for starters :-)

OP could your username identify you? His family could read this.

I just read my last message and I'm not saying you deserve to be treated badly because you have poor boundaries! I'm sorry if that's how that message came across. You sound lovely actually.

And I'm not saying you necessarily have poor boundaries either, just something to think about. I can get too into this subject. I'm getting tied in knots lol

@53Capland about 90% of the time I am far happier out of my marriage. Around 10% of the time I wish I could have made it work (but in reality I didn't have the skills or patience to). About 70% of the time my kids seem absolutely fine. And about 30% of the time they are sad or angry about it. So on balance I'd say we are better off now. And I could never have predicted him fading out of their lives like he has done. I also wonder if the teenage years would have been really difficult, given that he didn't respect boundaries and he needed to have control, which is much easier with toddlers.

I've made peace with my decision. But it doesn't stop it being sad, and I wish that he could have seen the damage he was doing.

3 babies to 3 men? Maybe he thinks you were looking for a meal ticket for you & your other children? Im not judging you, just trying to think of a reason for you.

Is his mother or a sister within reach? I think you might ask her if some cultural difference is in play which she could tell you about.

Have a serious conversation with him, have your examples of when you’ve felt marginalised and ignored. Explain you feel unloved and uncared for since the birth. That you are unhappy. And watch for his response. If he minimises (says your overreacting), projects (tells you it’s your fault), gaslights (says it didn’t happen) or is verbally or emotionally abusive to you - then you are dealing with a narc. In which case it won’t get better, it will get worse and eventually your infant child be on the end of devaluation too. But if he’s ok and open and listening and offering to change, then again wait, watch and see if there’s any action to back up the words. If not, challenge him again and watch for the above again. Eventually it will be clear what you are dealing with and what you need to do.

Yas01 - I'm so sorry it has got to that stage for you. I hope you find happiness and get through this stage soon. I hope your children realise all that you do for them.

Checkingcrosses866 - Don't worry I'm not sensitive about this stuff and would rather hear what I need to hear. I have never been made to do anything I am uncomfortable with but then I have no problem saying a firm no. Loving the homework haha
I will take a look later and get back to you!
I do appreciate the time you are taking to clear things up for me and I am sure it will be helping lurkers that read this with similar problems which is what I would normally have done.

Ostanovka - Thanks for the tip but my username wouldn't mean anything to most people but also his family have never spoken to me and don't speak English so no worries there.

ChaoticMinds - Your percentages actually are really helpful for keeping it all in perspective rather than people glossing over the decisions they make. I would rather be armed with people's truths to really help me.
I do feel there is hope in my marriage especially as he has made a bit of an effort today as he knows I am upset and he is now opening to the ideas I had for decorating the house yesterday. Small baby steps but I can't expect too much from him. I am definitely concerned about our future and not sure we can last and I am worried about the experiences detailed above but I also know that if I need to end my marriage I will. There is only so much crap I will put up with!
You have been strong and I am glad it has been the right decision for you. I am sure your children's percentages will improve more too once they adjust and are settled.

BattyBettysBiccy Sun 14-Jun-20 18:10:20

3 babies to 3 men? Maybe he thinks you were looking for a meal ticket for you & your other children? Im not judging you, just trying to think of a reason for you.

A meal ticket is a big assumption! When we first met I was running a very succesful business making a great deal of money and he is a commercial lawyer. We have 10 degrees between us and he comes from a rich family, I come from a poor background and have worked hard to get where I am. My daughters were both teenagers with their own jobs and doing very well at school (now Uni). We go 50/50 with everything and always have. I can assure you there has never been financial motivation on either side.

2bazookas Sun 14-Jun-20 18:11:49

Is his mother or a sister within reach? I think you might ask her if some cultural difference is in play which she could tell you about.

Unfortunately not as I cannot visit his family and they cannot visit me (visa/political issues) and they do not speak English.
I do think there is a cultural issue at play as he sees marriage as a practical solution to raise children and I am a romantic, passionate, emotional English woman lol

WellIWasInTheNeighbourhoo - Good clear advice, thank you I will try it