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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Feel utterly sad and need to tell someone

129 replies

winsterwoes · 29/05/2020 23:15

I guess I just need to write it out somewhere. Not sure if this is the beginning of the end.

Been married for 2 years (together for 3.5), have a 6 month old baby together. Day to day life on the surface is pretty good - we get on really well (I would consider him my best friend), loads to chat and laugh about, built a lovely home together, have a good balance of spending time together and having time to do our own thing, have our own friends and hobbies, rarely argue......

The problem is that when we DO argue (and it’s only ever about one thing : housework) - he turns into the most unreasonable person ever. He has this god-like complex that he can never be wrong, he refuses to listen to my reasoning or explanations, paints me as the one that caused it and the one that should back down. Sometimes I do back down just to move on with life, sometimes I refuse to back down and then we just sweep it under the rug and it stays there until next time.

Today I got so angry while preparing dinner that I literally threw the boiled egg I’d just peeled across the kitchen and stormed out. In my 36 years of life I have never thrown anything in a rage or stormed out of anywhere. I feel like the arguments get me more worked up every time, just because I know what’s coming and I’m beginning to despair.

So, having an unexpected evening alone left to my own thoughts, I’m wondering things like....
Can I be with someone who will not partake in a constructive argument? They are going to happen, so one needs those skills. If I’m getting more frustrated each time it happens, it’s only going to get worse surely. Should I put up with these (fairly infrequent) arguments for an otherwise great life together? I want to maybe voice it to him that I’m contemplating being without him but if I voice it out loud, I can never take it back, it’ll always be there. I want another baby, what if I don’t get another chance? If I leave him, will I ever find anyone else who I get along with so well? If we got a divorce, it would be really quite embarrassing at work and amongst extended family and things. I know some of those are silly things to be thinking.

I feel quite calm but very sad, I just don’t know what to do or say when I see him in the morning. I suppose any and all thoughts are welcome. Thankyou for reading. X

OP posts:
Lifeisabeach09 · 30/05/2020 16:02

Counselling, yep. And don't cook dinner together!!! One or the other does it because, as pp have said, both are trying to take control.

winsterwoes · 30/05/2020 16:22

Thanks all, I'm still here and still reading.

OP posts:
icansmellburningleaves · 30/05/2020 16:32

@billy1966

OP, I'm sorry but you are in an abusive relationship.

Well done for beginning to realise thatbyou have married badly.
He's a waster.
One of life's wasters.
It is not going to get better, most like a lot worse.
Don't get pregnant, that would ad shit on an awful relationship.

Your relationship is awful, get org4and get out.

This choice is yourrs.

He's a waster.
A real waster.

Flowers

That’s a very over the top response. He isn’t abusive, he just doesn’t like to be wrong. If that’s the only problem then it can surely be worked on, maybe with a counsellor OP?
mathanxiety · 30/05/2020 16:39

If a man so much as breathes they are calling him abusive and telling OP to leave ASAP.

And on the other hand, if a man so much as picks up the towel he just used from the bathroom floor he is God's gift to women.

Some women set the bar very low when it comes to male partner behaviour.

vikingwife · 30/05/2020 16:41

With the example you give, what was it about him not cooking dinner together that angered you into throwing an object ? (Albeit an egg)

  • do you value the act of cooking a meal together as quality time & he has rejected you in favour of his kids?
  • does he have a pattern of agreeing to do things then not doing them?
  • do you generally dislike when plans change?
  • does he not help with housework load & you feel like a maid?
  • does he agree to things then forget about them ?
  • would you describe yourself as controlling ?

These are just guesses, perhaps the reason is none of the above ! But there will be reasons for why this made you snap.

Examine why that situation made you so angry, this is what counselling will help with, as well as helping to communicate better.

Eg if it was that cooking together is important to you as quality time, say so! Instead of calling him back to instruct him to pour sauce on fish & put in oven it’d be more effective to say “babe you promised we’d cook dinner together, you know how much I love when we do that, are you coming back to do the fish ?”

From what you describe a different communication style may well have gotten you the outcome you desired.

I feel like the process of cooking dinner together sounds important to you on an emotional level - it’s something you see as quality time to do together, am I right ? So him not doing the fish when you could do that in 2seconds was a rejection of you, or forgetting about you & not caring about doing something he agreed to do.

For one person it’s just sauce on fish, but for you it symbolises something.

2ndtimearound2020 · 30/05/2020 16:41

Initially I was with you.

After the update, he had just been dealing with his daughter who had a tantrum. He walks into the kitchen and you say can you put that int he oven. You were preparing the dinner whilst he was dealing with a daughter. That doesn't make him lazy just doing something else.

He gets a drink to leave and you give him something to do - can you just pop the salmon in the oven. If it is ready and it takes a few seconds and you are stood next to it preparing dinner whilst he has spent time sorting a tantrum having daughter did he really have to be given an instruction?

I often find that the devil is in the detail and each party puts their own slant on things. However, it does show some underlying resentments in your relationship - counselling help to talk through these resentments would help you both.

I wonder how he would present it (I was having trouble and dealing with daughter who had just had a tantrum. I managed to get her settled and other child settled watching TV. I walk into kitchen and partner who avoided any tantrum was preparing dinner and immediately gives me something to do. Still stressed from daughter I merely wanted a quick drink and I get an instruction. The salmon was right next to her but hey ho had to give me something to do. I said no and she threw an egg across the room (at me?)

What did I do wrong?

2ndtimearound2020 · 30/05/2020 16:44

This:

"He’s picked them up, driven 45 mins with them chatting away about their lives over the last week, hung out with them when they got home for ~1.5h, they do their own thing for half an hour before bed, and then he’s still got the whole weekend to spend with them when they wake up in the morning." All that picking up and spending time and the moment he walks into the kitchen after dealing with trantruming child the partner says 'oh do this'....

vikingwife · 30/05/2020 16:45

@mathanxiety so what about a female spouse who throws an object during an argument? What is that then? At face value the OP could well be construed as the controlling & abusive partner here.

notaprettygirl · 30/05/2020 16:48

on the surface is pretty good - we get on really well (I would consider him my best friend), loads to chat and laugh about, built a lovely home together, have a good balance of spending time together and having time to do our own thing, have our own friends and hobbies

he turns into the most unreasonable person ever. He has this god-like complex that he can never be wrong, he refuses to listen to my reasoning or explanations, paints me as the one that caused it and the one that should back down. Sometimes I do back down just to move on with life, sometimes I refuse to back down and then we just sweep it under the rug and it stays there until next time.

Sounds like me when I loved my husband. I don't anymore. I actively hate him. LIke you, great surface relationship - laugh a lot, talk all the time, my favourite person to be with, do things together and apart. BUT completely unable to constructively handle disagreements because he always has to be right. Turning any issues I raise into my fault. That is an awful sign of a relationship that is pretty dysfunctional tbh. Its' hidden by the 'liking to spend time together side'. Its not enough.

Read a book called the seven principles of a successful marriage. All based on research and evidence. What you describe is classic for a relationship that is almost certain to implode. It will help you to understand what is wrong in your relationship - but it can only be fixed if he wants to change how he behaves. And he may not want to.

vikingwife · 30/05/2020 16:49

Also was it A Niçoise salad with the tuna substituted for salmon? I want to know what meal has boiled egg + salmon in it together! Or was the boiled egg for something else ? Completely unimportant you don’t have to answer of course

Chatons · 30/05/2020 17:34

I suspect he is a fair weather friend. It’s easy for a relationship to appear wonderful when you’re not (rightly) pointing out what a lazy git he is.

He was unreasonable to refuse to put the salmon in the oven when your hands were clearly occupied doing something else.

I bet you 10p that’s the kind of reason (times many) he and his ex split.

mathanxiety · 30/05/2020 18:14

You both sound like you point score rather than work together and have fun. You threw an egg because he would not do a silly non-job?! That is very extreme. Why would you call someone to put something in the oven, except to make a point?

Why would you simply refuse to do a 'non-job' when you had nothing else to do, except to make a point?

If it's a non-job, how about just leaving the salmon on the counter and not having salmon to eat for dinner that night?
The fact is, it is a job and if nobody did it there wouldn't be anything but a salad for dinner. I bet this man ate that salmon she cooked for him, and the salad she prepared too.

It was a job, and they had agreed to cook together, presumably because this is something they enjoy and find productive, and backing out of the dinner prep without offering any explanation up front - worse, shouting when called to do your agreed part in the process - is disrespectful.

And a 5 and 8 year old still take a fair bit of looking after
He knew the children would be there on Friday and he himself, their father, knew what level of supervision they needed. With all this in mind, he agreed to cook with his wife on Friday. Don't agree to something you may not be able to do and then shout at the other party to the agreement when you are ducking out of it. He should have gone to the kitchen and apologised for leaving his wife with the entire dinner to prepare if he felt the children needed supervision that night, unlike other Friday nights.

How do you react when he says he needs to change plans due to settling his children. Are you reasonable and calm or do you get cross?
When the time came, he offered no reason for his refusal to participate in the cooking. He just shouted at her and implied she was being ridiculous for asking him to do what he had agreed to do. After the blank refusal to do the one minute item - 'No, you do it' - came the get out of jail card, the kids apparently needed his attention. The kids trumped the previous arrangement made with his wife, but if he knew they needed his attention, why not go to the kitchen, say 'Sorry dear, could you do dinner tonight, it looks as if the kids are going to need supervision this bedtime?' His wife didn't deserve enough respect to be told this, or to be offered an apology. Would the OP be justified in suspecting that he pulled the kid-related excuse straight out of his arse as a way to back up his point blank refusal to do the one-minute thing that he had disrespectfully refused to do? I think she would.

Believe it or not, LarryGrylls, many women do not like being shouted at and not listened to, especially when that leaves you preparing an entire meal you know will be eaten later by the same person who shouted at you.

What it boils down to is that he is happy to eat food she cooks for him but he doesn't think he needs to listen to her, respect prior agreements, or explain respectfully why he can't keep up his end of an agreement.

"Silly non-job" is an incredibly derisive term. Every single thing that constitutes housework is a silly non-job, if you think about it.
Crumbs wiped off a counter.
Table set for a meal.
Plates, etc., brought to the kitchen after a meal, table wiped.
Dishwasher filled, dishwasher emptied, all items put in the right place.
Recyclables gathered up and thrown in recycling bin.
Rubbish to rubbish bin.
Bins out on bin day, bins back in.
Grocery situation monitored, items added to a running list, items ordered or shopped for, carried in from car, put away, bags put back in car.
Meat taken from freezer in time to thaw for dinner. Takes a few seconds, but is everyone's brain occupied with the topic of dinner at 8am every Saturday morning?
Laundry sorted into whites, colours, laundry washed in correct temp wash, laundry pegged out, laundry taken down and brought in, items sorted, ironed, stacked, placed in drawers, on hangers, in airing cupboard, ironing board taken down, iron put away, clothes pegs put away. One 'silly non-job' after the other. Everyone likes nice, clean, uncreased clothes though, right?
Cups, glasses, mugs rinsed and put in the dishwasher after use, not just left in the sink. Is this a silly non-job because it takes less than a minute to rinse them and move them from the sink to the dishwasher?
Clothes picked up from the floor beside the laundry basket and put into the laundry basket. It takes a minute to pick up an armful and toss them all in - is this a silly non-job?
Sink rinsed after someone has brushed their teeth and spat out the toothpaste. Takes a minute...
Skid marks scrubbed off toilet, drips wiped off toilet seat or rim of the bowl...
Salmon placed in oven when you can see someone else is fully occupied doing something else, after which you can sort out the kids to your little heart's content?
All small stuff? Certainly.

So why not do it all if each individual thing takes so little time and effort?

All the small things that are blown off by one party in a home are disrespectful of the time and labour of the other person. The blithe assumption that the other person is happy spending minute after minute every day doing all those one minute jobs that are beneath them to bother with is disrespectful. The person who won't do the 'silly non-jobs' is valuing his time highly while completely devaluing his wife's.

The OP is not some skivvy whose labour and feelings don't matter. If something is a 'silly non-job' then the party calling it such should be willing to experience the consequences when it doesn't get done. This man belittles 'one-minute jobs' but added together they constitute hours of work for the person doing one after another, doing the drudge work and providing the mental space required to keep all the plates in the air while dealing with a baby aged six months.

Equal housework sharing is about respect. Lack of sharing is about lack of respect.

winsterwoes · 30/05/2020 18:54

Honestly @mathanxiety I wish I knew you and could hug you for writing that last message. I'm reading all the posts and trying to summon up the energy to write responses which explain things more clearly, but you've just done it for me very well.

On another note since I'm now writing - a thought I had earlier was how comedic this egg throwing has become with each new mention it's had :-D
I think some of the posters have envisaged it happening like so - he said no to putting the salmon in the oven and all of a sudden I flew into a rage and threw a boiled egg at his retreating back. Haha. Of course it wasn't like that at all!! It does make me chuckle to imagine that in my head. Anyway. The egg throwing was during the ensuing argument as, unable to get any own explanation in, I felt an urgent need to leave the kitchen but still had that bloody boiled egg in my hand and decided to throw it towards the sink instead of placing it calmly down on the worktop. So there you all go :)

OP posts:
ErickBroch · 30/05/2020 20:03

I have seen your other post OP - he's an arsehole

winsterwoes · 30/05/2020 20:06

@ErickBroch
I haven't got another post. Guess it's a common problem ..

OP posts:
ErickBroch · 30/05/2020 20:07

Hm. Well, some amazing similarities regarding husband, new baby, time together, and step-kids ages Grin

JoysOfString · 30/05/2020 20:13

Exactly mathanxiety. It's a million million little things that make up the stream of consciousness and active day of the person who carries the mental load and makes sure everything gets done.

At one point I realised my ex's life was very "low-resolution" and mine was "high resolution". I saw, thought about and enacted a thousand little things a day. He dealt with a handful, and thought he was a superstar because that was so much more than zero. My mind was full of thousands of details of the household tasks, maintenance, admin, kids' lives, needs, friends, clothes, appointments etc etc and he would have to ask me things like what time school pick-up was or where we kept the screwdrivers, because he had no clue because he didn't bother to know about or deal with those things.

Then if he said that something was a little thing so it didn't matter, or acted like a hero for doing one job I'd asked him to, it was so exasperating but he had no idea why.

winsterwoes · 30/05/2020 20:21

@ErickBroch interesting! Can you point me to it please.. I'd like to read it, maybe I'll learn something from that too

OP posts:
TwistyHair · 30/05/2020 20:35

I was just about to write, why the hell would he not put the salmon in? That’s just making a point that you can’t tell him what to do. If my partner asked me to do a quick thing, whatever, I’d just do it. And him the same. You just do it to help each other out. But then Mathanxiety said it all so much better.

Musti · 30/05/2020 20:36

OP I'm with you. It's all the little things that each don't take long to do, but put together is a job.

My ex didn't lift a finger because he earned the money and was busy working. What made it more galling was things like leaving his shoes out and not putting them in the shoe cupboard 1 foot from where he'd leave his shoes. I too would be unreasonable having a go for leaving his shoes out, but with 4 kids and pets, it was another job. Each day was packed with endless little jobs which left me not only shattered but also unhappy as it never finished.

Yet when my mum or friends came to stay, they without asking joined in when I was cooking or tidying or cleaning or feeding the kids and it was all done in a fraction of the time and i felt supported.

mathanxiety · 30/05/2020 21:10

...why the hell would he not put the salmon in? That’s just making a point that you can’t tell him what to do.

Bingo! @TwistyHair

larrygrylls · 31/05/2020 07:47

Math,

'If it's a non-job, how about just leaving the salmon on the counter and not having salmon to eat for dinner that night?'

Do you take everything quite so literally? OP was standing by the oven, by the sound of it. It is 'a job' but, literally, probably takes 10 seconds, no longer or harder than instructing her husband to put it in the oven.

'He knew the children would be there on Friday and he himself, their father, knew what level of supervision they needed. With all this in mind, he agreed to cook with his wife on Friday.'

Are you, perchance, a rather literal minded lawyer? Agreeing to cook together is a friendly thing, not a contract! He may have known that his children were there but he had no idea one of them would need to be settled exactly when his wife chose to do dinner. Living with someone who enforces this type of 'agreement' regardless of changing circumstances is a nightmare.

More broadly, if you are sharing the care of one child with a partner and he is, simultaneously, looking after 2 more children, do you not think he should be cut some slack? What became of equity of free time within a relationship? Or is looking after a 5 and 8 year old now a 'non job' in your eyes?

Your 'laundry' list of household jobs are a mixture of 'jobs' and 'non jobs'. Some actually take significant periods of time and some don't. (And who, over the age of 5, leaves clothes by a laundry basket, anyway?),

I always find this 'mental load' thing hilarious. It is just normal life , which most people do in addition to a job. It is often used by SAHP of older children to justify not working (not that they need to justify it, but they often choose to).

And I do all of this stuff myself, as well as working. It just goes on in the background. I walk upstairs, I check the kids rooms, open curtains, tidy up, put any clothes in wash. I walk down again, make some coffee and note that milk is running out and, mentally, add it to my shopping list. It only becomes a 'mental load' if you resent it.

On a bigger level, and more pertinent to the OP, it is easy to look at a relationship and blame one person for its dysfunctionality. It is rarely that way and, far more often, a mixture of a clash of priorities or communication styles. Yes, occasionally, there are people on their third failed marriage, and all for the same reason. Far more often, though, two people get divorced and BOTH go on to find happiness with someone more compatible.

It sounds, to me, that the OP and her husband both like to get their own way. OP is unafraid to issue instructions to her husband and then lose her temper when they are not obeyed. Her husband sounds equally obstinate in that he would prefer the above to just doing a non job himself and having a peaceful evening. Resentments have clearly been building up and they are being acted out over trivial things.

If the relationship was once good, counselling seems the answer. If it was never really good, then splitting up is the way ahead.

winsterwoes · 31/05/2020 08:09

@larrygrylls

Grin
  • Nope, was not standing by the oven, in fact was further away from it than DH was. That's just really getting down to petty details though isn't it. Doesn't matter where anybody was in relation to some household appliance, surely you've asked someone before when your hands are full "oh can you just put that in?" "Oh can you just take that out" "oh can you just open that" etc
  • Agreeing to cook together is neither JUST a friendly thing nor a contract. It's somewhere in the middle I'd say, wouldn't you? It's a responsibility thing.
  • He wasn't simultaneously looking after all three children.. hah. Have you read my posts? One child was already fast asleep and the other two were (by now calmly) doing their own thing.
  • I think you'll find PLENTY of people over the age of 5 leave clothes by the laundry basket. Happens in our house a lot. Also I see posts and memes about it all the time! How do you not know this?!
  • You may find the mental load thing hilarious but I can assure you most people don't. Good for you :)

I do agree with your summary though - in that we're probably both a little bit to blame. I fully accept that and am always willing to discuss the issue. Sadly that's what my DH isn't (yet) willing to do.

OP posts:
vikingwife · 31/05/2020 08:22

You sound really inflexible OP. You have kids, things don’t go according to plan. I am wondering if they were your biological children he was comforting if you’d have been so annoyed about the fish. Were your hands that full? You said you were making a salad - surely not so labour intensive it would prevent you putting sauce on fish & placing into the oven.

If this post was reversed & you were the man it would be said you’re controlling for being so inflexible about this plan to cook dinner & throwing the egg would be seen as abusive & a sign of your anger issues, like having a toddler tantrum.

I could never be with someone who was unable to go with the flow & adapt to any deviations of plans.

If he had said he was going to make dinner that night himself & left the whole job to you that would be different. That would be him not meeting his responsibility. But how you describe cooking together would actually take longer for 2 people to do. That’s why so many parents use the “divide & conquer” system.

Carrying the mental load would include seeing he had his hands full with his kids at that moment & thinking “oh I’ll pop the salmon in the oven then”.

vikingwife · 31/05/2020 08:30

I mean the fact you can’t seem to tolerate the idea that going back on saying you’ll cook dinner together & suggesting it’s this serious responsibility speaks to an inflexibility & controlling type personality. It’s like you can’t tolerate that the evening didn’t go according to the plan you wanted. You were already in the kitchen making dinner, you were not busy doing some completely separate chore & him not helping with dinner was a huge impact.

This could have been resolved in another way - like he could clean up after dinner instead as you’d stepped in & saved the day with the fish. Or get a takeaway & leave the fish in the fridge till tomorrow eve....

Maybe he needed a breather after whatever was going on with his kids upstairs...you started off saying there was a tantrum issue but now say the tantrum had stopped... am fairly sure his version of the story would be different.

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