A question about how abusive people view their victims after they leave?

[Fightingback16]

I’ve approached this subject before on a thread. I asked whether abusers know they are abusive. I was kind of content with the answer that they don’t, they think a different way to “normal” people. Now I’m not sure what I’m working with.

I’m looking at a potential court case over custody. I was thinking about how he views me now. Does he view me as the same women who I was when we were together. Does he have no idea what’s happening or why I’m not cooperating? Does he see himself still as the victim?

Or, does he know that I know he abused me, is he hoping and relying on the fact that I’m too damaged to act now? I’m making dam sure I’m not too damaged at all!!!

I’m just wondering a little on how he thinks in order to work out how to tackle this. I kind of need to know thy enemy.

@C0RA, is absolutely spot on. Courts will promote contact with both parents and take a very dim view of what can be presented as parental alienation. The threshold for stopping contact is very high, actual and regular abuse to a child.

If your ex uses the parental alienation card, and blocking all access is seen as unreasonable then you could be heavily penalised with contact by a judge.

The climate in courts has changed and the default is often shared contact. I say this to forewarn you as stopping contact could backfire on you. A friend has proof of her Ex hitting the child yet courts and Cafcass still recommend 40% contact on the basis that he can take parenting classes.

I think as children (of these decisions) grow up and can relay their experiences it will be a scandal but for now the courts have a strong focus on fathers access.

I know how my dad viewed himself. He wasn't that abusive, relative to what was acceptable at the time, but he was an awful, awful husband. He could be so charming it was like watching the sun, and at other times he would pick out little things that he knew were vulnerabilities, just to make her feel crap about herself. He did it to us too, when we were older. I asked him about it before he died. He gave me his charming laugh; he also said that he was an angry young man, and he agreed that having sex with other women was not acceptable, without directly admitting anything. And he finally told me after 40 years that he was really proud of me. So....no, I don't think it's the same for them, but that's because people with such huge emotional issues have usually been abused themselves, which he was. They can't admit anything to themselves, because doing so would unravel their very low self-esteem and confront them with the tragedies of their own childhoods and history repeating itself.

@Techway I don’t know what to do anymore. After the ambulance and the lighter incident and the weed and constant threats etc etc I offered contact at our local Center and he said No because he wouldn’t take time off work. He said he wouldnt come to my house because he was scared of me and my mum. I was looking into a Center 60 miles away that could accommodate his work but that would involve me taking a day off work. Which my lawyer told him I was willing to do
for dd. In the meantime he came and tried to break in the door with dd in the house because it wasn’t happening quick enough. So I said NO, no more of this.

I’m absolutely shit scared that I get in trouble and end up loosing her to him. I literally don’t know what to do for the best for her.

He has alienated himself. What would the judge have me do. Send her to a man that could quite possibly kill her in his attempt to get at me. She was in an ambulance because he left his food on the table overnight and left her alone and she ate all the old leftovers. He brought her back in his arms so sick, barged in and had a massive go at me for putting ham in her sandwich, apparently I’m trying to give her cancer. He did nothing about her swollen lips just stool their telling me how dare I feed his child ham.

This is surely not normal.

I don't know & I don't care. What is the point of speaking abusers 'back to life?'. They don't deserve it and aren't even thinking about their victims. They've moved on - likely to another victim and aren't centering you. Even if they're still hassling you. I didn't even want revenge, wouldn't give vile person headspace I was just glad not to wake up every day and see his face. Dealing with what has to be done then moving forward is the best way. It's not always necessary to 'win'. That mindset gives him power. Live life away from abuser whilst not giving a shit what he may or may not think, and be happy. That's winning.

Mine minimises his behaviour. Will blame me still.

He asks on the letter, demands that I give him video access at a set time each week from now. He says it’s totally unreasonable that he doesn’t even have that! I have it in msgs me trying to tie him down to this each week previously but he wouldn’t answer.

Is he trying to make me loopy?

Also I stopped contact mid Dec. He could have applied to court the next day. It’s mid May now!

I think you have to show willingness to establish contact and look for solutions. If you have moved away to have family support or adds more weight to his argument that you need to be flexible.

Get advice from children's charities and womens aid and come up with a proposal that you would be comfortable with. Would a few hours, maybe at a park work?

What is his goal with contact, has he said what he wants? I assume the issue with ham is his religious beliefs.

What was the outcome of the hospital visit? Parents aren't routinely punished for "accidents", if so the courts would be removing children who have attended a&e.

What a court sees is parents who both feel aggrieved and they assume fault on both sides. They will listen to his views and give them as much weight as yours. Parents who smoke recreationally don't lose contact with their children as they believe the benefits of a dad outweigh losing contact.

No one here is saying that you should give him access now because he’s a great guy and he deserves it.

They are agreeing with you that he’s probably a shit guy and a shit father. But remember he once convinced you how great he was. So it’s likely that he will do the same with them and they will give him contact if you get that far.

So best to do grey rock just now and hope he gets bored. Narcs love drama so don’t give him any. Don’t be all “ bring it on because I will win and prove you wrong “.

But if you do go to court, do not assume he will lose because he’s violent and stupid and you have a masters and are a good mum. Assume he will get some sort of access so offer something that’s acceptable to you IF IT GETS TO COURT.

I don’t move away he physically pushed me out the house and told me if I came back he’d do something we’d both regret.

The ham incident was not religious, he is not religious. I was asking him what was wrong with dds lips and he got angry and said that I’m worse then him because I put ham in her sandwich and so trying to give her cancer.

The a&e visit confirmed allergy. This was not the first incident. I tried to explain to him about her allergic reaction many times but he just told me I’m making it up. He told me he’d report me to social services for making her allergic. We have the test results and she is allergic.

He wants all the contact I have tried to arrange with him over the months but he wouldn’t comply.

He didn’t convince me once he was a great guy, he raped me and traumatised me.

I’m not wanting him to loose. I just want contact to be arranged through the courts so that I have somewhere to go to when it goes wrong. I can arrange contact through the solicitor but he will break it and then I’m back to square one. I don’t want him at my door banging, on the phone screaming at me forcing me to comply with his plans in front of dd. I want this sorted without him having access to me. Perhaps that will make him slightly better at being her father.

Court will discourage this won’t it?

@C0RA, completely agree but op also needs to know that the parental alienation allegation can be very damaging to the resident parent as blocking access is seen as highly damaging to children so a court. It is unlikely in this case that a judge/cafcass would view that the threshold for neglect has been exceeded so they could view the op as unreasonable. The op needs to be aware that blocking access to a parent is seen as highly damaging to a child which is why the courts always give contact.

I still think you are wasting time thinking about what he might be thinking. You will never know whether he wants you to look crazy or not. You need a good solicitor. A really good one. Just to consult at this stage. I’d probably be vague, grey rock, non commital and not reply.

I'm so sorry for what you've been through Fighting💐
it causes such a lot of damage💐

What about if you offer only very limited and supervised contact and if he doesn't stick to strict conditions then he loses the contact?
As said you need to be showing a willingness to work with him and allow him to have a relationship with his child but on the other hand you do have reasons to be concerned and (because you have those valid concerns) he should in return be prepared to work with you.
He should want to put your and your child's mind at rest and show that he's prepared to stick to a routine, do the right thing be upstanding and reliable etc.
Does that make sense, those of you with experience in these matters?

@techwah the parental alienation is not taken as seriously as you think, it’s been debunked several times as a tool abusers use. He’s not exactly making big effort to get contact. The OP needn’t take him very seriously and respond to find a solution. That isn’t her job. This isn’t anywhere near court yet and it doesn’t sound like he’s serious.

I do think the OP needs legal advice with how to respond, if at all. Not us guessing.

I don’t understand because I have offered all the things he is now asking for. He turned them down. I offered for him to come and spend the day with dd on xmas eve, he never turned up, said he was scared of me but had arranged to video call his family from my house with her. So they rang me asking where is he. Then Xmas eve msg me saying he is desperate to come and see her and I’m so cruel.

I have a lawyer.

I was arranging contact. I was prepared to take time off and travel but he jeopardised that not me. He stood outside my house screaming in going to make sure I take my daughter away from you. Everyone heard down the street.

He told me not seeing her was like death and that Id know that feeling one day.
I know what you are all saying but my insides have massive warning alarms bells going about him. Maybe they just over sensitive but I don’t trust him.

I should have just bloody stayed and continued to be treated like a slave. At least there were very few time she was alone with him, I was always there by her side. But that is a stupid thing to say because I would have been dead.