Gender disappointment

[mumofboystimesthree]

I have 3 boys and have always been desperate for a girl. I love my boys to absolute pieces and don't want a girl instead of them, it's as well as. Being on lockdown in a house full of boys & DH has made me feel worse as I'm missing girly time with my mum/friends etc... This year and last everyone under the sun has had a girl. My sister just gave birth to a girl after 2 boys & my best friend is expecting one. This has made me feel down even more and jealous, which is an awful thing to admit. For those that want to troll me or say nasty things, gender disappointment is a real thing.
I always wanted a daughter as I grew up with all girls. My parents were divorced & I didn't see my dad so it was my mum and 2 sisters I was close too. My grandad died before I was born so I only had my Granny & aunties growing up. Literally no men and as much as I love some aspects of having boys (they are so incredibly loving, what you see is what you get, no emotional drama) I'm still pining for what I don't have. I tried for a girl with my last DS and did everything you're supposed to but obviously it didn't work (glad of it now!!).
How do you get over GD? I'm not going to have anymore kids as it's not fair to keep going. I also want to give the 3 beautiful boys I have all the love and attention they deserve. I hate feeling sad and jealous when I hear of anyone having a girl, I can't help it and it does affect my relationship as my mood can be up and down. When I think of never having a daughter for the rest of my life I feel incredibly sad. It doesn't help either that having all boys is seen negatively by others. I've lost count of the horrible/negative/sympathetic comments I've had from strangers & family about my all boy brood. That's definitely made my GD worse!

I was talking to a group of female friends over dinner, probably last year, about the power of female friendship. Lived female experience in our society shows us that men are other. Male pattern violence, murder, domestic abuse, harassment, prejudice etc all taught me that being a woman is different to being a man. I would likely earn less, be objectified, oppressed, feel unsafe. That is our lived experience and our biology. And I take comfort from all female groups because they are predicated upon shared biology and shared experience. And then a small voice piped up "er... hello?" It was T. He is, well, a he. This group of friends are all ex colleagues but we've remained friends for years. All women. Except T. We worked in a female dominated environment and T was already an anomaly. T doesn't feel other to me and we all realised that he was a peculiar exception, part of the group without question. He is evidently male, bearded, loves IT way more than is reasonable, heterosexual. On the surface, he was no different to any other male but he belonged to our group. He contributes to the group WhatsApp as much as us, is emotionally open, empathetic, non-threatening, had never once objectified a woman in the years we'd known him, can chat on Zoom for hours (to use your example) . We decided he was an oddity until he pointed out "I was raised by a radfem". He is as aware of and committed to feminism as we are. He had never declared it or drawn attention to it. He is simply aware and he gets it. He gets us. It was a real light bulb moment as a mother of a son. I need to raise a boy who is simply himself with the full potential to be open, in touch with his feelings, respectful of all lived human experience, able to see privilege and challenge it. I don't know how the fuck to do it BTW. I think women other men because it keeps us safe in a patriarchal society and it's a lot to unpick. But I think it must start with valuing individuals and encouraging them free from prejudice. Probably not even possible but we can start with our sons, do our best. Maybe not other them. Accept them. Raise them up. Enjoy them. Recognise that they are enough on their own.

Does that make any sense?

I'm not even bothering to reply to the nasty comments on here. If you're looking for an argument this in not the thread to start it on believe me. I'm not discussing gender stereotyping about girls, I'm talking about boys. Start another thread about girls and how unfair life is for them if you so wish. I'm not getting involved with people reading into things in my comments and further trying to cause an issue that isn't there.

Thank you for the other helpful and constructive replies! It's so lovely to see that non-judgemental people still exist and I feel better having read your lovely comments. Thank you for sharing your own experiences and thoughts with your personal experiences of GD💐By talking openly and not being shamed that is how we move forward and help each other.

You’re always bound to get some flack on GD here OP but I understand you. I always wanted a girl. My first was a boy, my second a girl who was stillborn. That was 5 years ago and despite many rounds of fertility treatment I’ve never been able to conceive again, and now am at an age where it is becoming increasingly unlikely.

The fertility treatment definitely reduced my desperation for a girl, but honestly it hasn’t gone away and I don’t think I will ever stop feeling like I missed out. Like you it seems everyone else is having baby girls and it is so incredibly painful at times.

My boy isn’t a “stereotypical boisterous boy” at all but he and my husband connect in a way that I don’t with him. For my husband he is reliving his childhood with all the toy cars and superhero shit that they both love and I just want to play Sylvanians Of course my daughter could have been into those things too, I’ll never know. But all my son’s female friends love the sort of things I loved as a child, which my son is less interested in despite being given the opportunities/toys.

I think time helps you come to terms with it. I also focus on the things I enjoy that we can do together - he loves baking like I do, and science experiments. If he wants Spider-Man play or whatever he goes to Dad and I have a break to do “girly” stuff by myself or with friends.

I think you’re very lucky to have a new niece, I will never have one of those either. It would be lovely to build a close relationship with her and perhaps that will help fill the girl shaped gap a little?

@Milicentbystander72 A lovely post thank you. I do enjoy teaching my boys to cook and we bake together every Wednesday, it's our thing that they don't do with DH. I speak openly with them too and encourage them to take an interest in our family. My DH loves his mum etc.. but isn't great at keeping in touch or remembering certain dates. To be fair she doesn't make a fuss about it which is maybe why. My favourite part of the day is snuggling up with my boys and watching something with them, it's true you have to nurture the relationships you have with each child.

I had a wonderful lifelong relationship with one of my many aunts; in my childhood she was my spare mother and as I grew up our relationship blossomed into the closest of adult friendships.

One of her daughters is a lifetime singleton with no children of her own. However , for 40 years she too has been the most wonderful, special, adoring and adored auntie to the four daughters of her own brother and sister.

Lucky you, you can borrow your new neice and create that very special bond with her; a bit like the joy us older mums discover in our grandchildren

I think gender stereotypes are stronger today than thirty, forty years ago.
As a teacher, I saw hairstyles for girls as an obvious example of change in attitudes to physical appearance. There was a time when most women had short hair because it is easier to deal with. From invigilation, I know now that 95% of girls have long hair. Ditto clothes back in the day, primary colours were the big thing for both sexes.Now it is so rigid. This is just a matter of clothing and hair but it reflects society's desire to label the sexes with visual clues.
There is huge gender stereotyping on MN and, in my opinion, huge differences in attitudes to men and women, mothers and fathers. If a woman confides in her family and female friends it is understandable and a positive thing. If a man talks to his family or friends he is being disloyal. If a woman has an affair, her husband must have driven her to it. If a man does the same it is his fault. On Here, some mothers seem to expect to be treated preferentially because they are mothers. So many women on here, expect to be financially provided for, even when their children are at secondary school and university. The whole controlling behaviour of some women and mothers can be irritating. On Gransnet, there are endless threads about women who have never worked , then find it hard to cope when their husbands retire because they have always had the house to themselves and a husband who has kept out the way and paid the bills.
Things have to change, there should be equal responsibility for childcare and domestic responsibilities and equal financial responsibility for the family unit. There needs to be encouragement so that men are allowed to develop emotional bonds and not forcing themselves to have a stiff upper lip. we need to do something about the alarming suicide rates for young men.
True equality of opportunity and responsibility is going to be a hugely positive thing.
I agree OP, it is not disappointment with your lovely children but disappointment at the way society and particularly lots of women react to men and male children.
Given the current precarious future, more women than ever will need to share financial responsibilities and save for their pensions. Hopefully, men will be supported to develop their nurturing roles so that no one turns a hair when they take equal responsibility for childcare.

@MolotovMocktail I'm very sorry to hear about your stillborn daughter. I can't even imagine the level of pain you feel💔GD can affect anyone and that is what is so awful about it. We know we shouldn't feel a certain way as it sounds self-indulged and completely selfish to want what you don't have. My CBT therapist said it's more common than people think and GD is a grieving process where you mourn the loss of the son/daughter you never had (or think you would've had). My sister lives abroad so I'll only see my niece once in a blue moon. Honestly I suffered with terrible jealousy when my sister announced she was having a girl (she never new though, I internalised it) and now my niece is here I love her to bits and will definitely be indulging my girly side with her.

OP that's what I mean about the person and not their sex. One of my son's will and does talk to me about his emotions and about his day etc every single day. He will talk to me for hours. My daughters have never talked to me about how they feel. I talk a lot about my emotions but to my friends and rarely to my mum. There is no guarantee that they will be more emotional or more into certain things because of their sex and people change throughout their lives.

I’m a mother of three sons too and I can relate to some of what has been said. If I’m being completely honest, I really wanted a daughter third time round. I’m not especially girly but I think it’s just the fact that I can completely relate to the lived experience of being a woman and what that can entail. I knew when I was pregnant so DS3 that I had to find out the sex so I could deal with any potential disappointment before he was born. When the sonographer told me it was a boy, there was a fleeting disappointment which vanished when I found out he was healthy (this pregnancy came after a miscarriage). I can now say I don’t suffer with GD but I do understand the feeling of not knowing what it would be like to raise a daughter. Having three boys has taken me out of my comfort zone but I’ve found that really invigorating. Regarding negative comments regarding having all boys, I have unfortunately experienced this, although most people were polite and congratulated us! One person asked me if I knew what I was having and when I said a boy, they said ‘oh I’m sorry’. I did not appreciate the commiseration! My aim is to raise children who are kind, considerate and respectful of others; something I would aim to do regardless of whether they were male or female!

@mrsmuddlepies some interesting points you make, gender stereotyping is definitely prevalent in all walks of life. I guess we can only do our bit to make sure the next generation grow up to see things differently.

I think it is ok to acknowledge your feelings. You sound like you feel guilty. You are sad you don’t have a daughter. That’s ok.

I think expressing how we feel takes us on the road to acceptance. Your road looks a little different but it’s very much there with lots of curve balls thrown in. You might have a wonderful relationship with a DIL or have a granddaughter. Or maintain very close relationships with your sons.

I think it’s ok to feel disappointed despite being incredibly lucky

I understand OP. There is a different relationship between mother and daughter and mother and son. I know not all relationships are the same but generally speaking there is a difference.

I have done things with my mum that I wouldn't with my dad and the relationship continues into adulthood. Then when I had my DC my mum was closer and more involved than my dad at least initially.

There are a lot of people on this thread minimising GD but it's a real thing and it's ok for you to grieve for a daughter you don't have.

I think it is ok to acknowledge your feelings.

Absolutely it is. But one of the things that posters are pointing out is that the OP herself seems to have quite entrenched views about what men and women are like, and that these don't necessarily bear any resemblance to reality -- and this is something she can change. She may not be able to have a daughter, and absolutely she gets to express her sadness about it, but she can also focus on dismantling her own gender sterotyping and as @ShowOfHands's good post suggests, bringing up her sons to be the most they can be, regardless of their sex, to challenge privilege, to be emotionally literate etc.

@blondie87 yes definitely it's so important to raise children male/female to be respectful of other people and to be kind. I always kick myself for not saying anything to people when they say rude things, especially when it's in front of my boys. I've had complete strangers come up to me and ask if they're all mine & in front of the boys say "gosh I don't envy you. Bet you wish he was a girl" nodding towards the pram at my youngest. My eyes welled up and I couldn't speak. I know not every comment people make is intending to be hurtful but thoughtless comments can really cut deep.
Next time I'm going to reply with a positive comment like "yes they're all mine, aren't I lucky?!"💙💙💙

Oh and yes, I find gender stereotypes for both men and women worrying and a bit depressing!

I actually think it's okay to have these feelings and I think a lot of people will actually have them, even if it's just a passing thought. I have 3 girls and I'd be lying if I said the thought of what it would be like to have a boy hasn't crossed my mind. Obviously like you I wouldn't change my girls for the world.

I detest the slogan t-shirts, and terms like cheeky monkey, little princess, and that girls' clothes are so girly.

@mumofboystimesthree, I was the gender disappointment. One of each was the ideal back then.

I was only too aware of the disappointment I had been. I am ok now, but I wish the people who would openly ask my mum "Weren't you disappointed that you didn't have a son?" would have had the common sense not to do it in front of the kids.

The same goes for those who said "So and so only had the third daughter because they kept trying for a girl, they'd have stopped at two if they'd had a boy".

You have a choice, OP, suck it up and get over it or keep trying until you have a girl.

However disappointed you are, be glad you have healthy children.
Many people don't even have the chance to be parents.

If anyone asks you if you are disappointed, and they will because they are twats, answer with a swift, prepared, reply like "Let's pretend you didn't ask that".

Yes @mumofboystimesthree! Own it!

@myfav @TeethingAgain @Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow thank you I appreciate your understanding💛

But there are differences between boys and girls. And usually the relationship is different. I think it’s ok to acknowledge that and by doing so, it doesn’t mean I dress my kids in “Princess” tshirts.

I have three girls. I adore my kids and would have been as happy with three boys. It would be different though. My sister is incredibly close to her sons and expresses sadness that I won’t experience that.

@BarbeDwyer I've never let my boys know my longing for a girl, they are completely unaware. I agree that people are thoughtless and cruel to say in front of a child that they must've been a disappointment as they weren't a boy/girl. I get asked all the time if the only reason I went for a 3rd was to have a girl. My eldest son has commented "what's wrong with having boys?" after our food delivery driver offered his commiserations when he saw I had 3 of them.

If anyone asks you if you are disappointed, and they will because they are twats, answer with a swift, prepared, reply like "Let's pretend you didn't ask that".

Absolutely. Or, neutrally, 'What do you mean?' and force them to explain their own dumb assumptions.

At the gender scan of my third someone made comment that I'd have to have a fourth to try for a boy

I honestly believe that a lot of the problems comes from tactless, thoughtless comments. So unbelievably hurtful, particularly in earshot of existing children.
I wish the message went out on MN loud and clear. Do not try to make mothers feel bad because it makes you feel superior. IT IS CRUEL and unnecessary.
Sending solidarity OP

I am not judging at all, I know it’s hard when you are seeking the female closeness that you grew up with. But as lots of others have said you’ll find something else with each one of your boys that will be unique to that relationship regardless of gender. I’m in the same boat tbh and just plan to try to be the “ cool aunt” with my nieces!

I think time will be the only thing that will help it. I feel like my dad definitely had this (three girls) but now he will openly say that he’s glad and doesn’t feel sad anymore. His son in laws are now almost like sons (but are more Polite and sit through his stories unlike us 🤣)

I completely disagree on this one though

“Perhaps if people thought about how they speak so negatively about boys and how undervalued they are in western society that would be a start. “

I don’t feel at all that boys are undervalued but the complete opposite in fact! But that’s just my opinion. Although it is true that ppl look sympathetically at you when you say you have only sons