Just need to share - no solution

[Witchesandwizards]

I met my kiwi husband 13 years ago in London, I am 48, he is 42 and we have two children, 10 and 7. We moved to NZ October 2019 against my wishes, but my husband always wanted to come back.

It was always an understanding that at some point we would move to NZ but this was decided before children, before my parents became frail and it kept getting put off as we built a successful and comfortable life in London with a close network of friends. I hoped that this would mean we didn’t have to move. By the time he decided we should move, I didn’t want to, but my husband held me to a ‘promise’ I had made 12 years earlier, and despite a lot of arguments, we set the wheels in motion and moved 6 months ago.

Immediately I felt homesick and suddenly realised that I had taken my life for granted, but emotionally I still felt in control and we threw ourselves into finding a house. And when we moved into that house, I looked forward to our container arriving and then it was Christmas. I spent 4 months either expecting things to improve or busy with the holidays. I still cried, we still had arguments, but nothing could prepare me for how I felt when the kids went back to school.

At the start of February it hit me like a ton of bricks that I have left most of my family and all my friends, my career, the home we renovated together, the city I love and my country of birth. It dawned that the rest of my life could be unhappy, living in a place I hate and don’t belong. At almost 50, I don’t really have much chance of building a life that is as fulfilling as my old one - I feel bereft and trapped. The best way I can describe it is that it feels like I’m in a coma and someone is trying to turn off my life support and however hard I try to yell, I can’t make them understand that I’m alive. I feel trapped in a nightmare - I have lost all control over my life. It’s a horror movie. I can’t even look back at last year and all the planning and believe I actually came. It’s a blur. I don’t know how I got on the plane.
Everything I do reminds me of an occasion, place or person from home. Hundreds of times a day. Music makes me sad, photos make me sad, social media makes me sad. I’ve always been the sort of person who can compartmentalise my problems, and still get up every day and find something to enjoy, putting a face on through hard times and still functioning well at work and socially. But now I only function for the children and nothing brings me joy. I have deserted my parents when they need me most, I argue and fight with my husband in front of the children, I don’t earn a living and I am horrible to live with.

Consequently, we are having terrible marriage problems - I’m not playing ball and embracing life as he wants me to, and he says I am negative. He is the classic extrovert and I am a natural introvert but with extrovert ‘cover’ when needed - he thinks I should socialise more to get out of my rut, find a job (after a 24 year career in advertising, I can’t get work for logistical/childcare reasons, age and now probably recession), and is pissed off that I don’t want to hang out with his family all the time (I don’t particularly get on with them). In return I have been absolutely vile to live with, lashing out (not physically) because I blame and resent him for my situation. He is now talking about separation but has said I can’t take the children home so I would have to stay here with 50% access, spending half my time alone in a country I never wanted to live in. I don’t know if I love him, I can’t see the wood for the trees.
I know I am depressed, but what good are anti-depressants, I need a time machine.

If you got this far thank you! There is nothing anyone can do to help but writing it down maybe helped. Or maybe not. 3.30am and I'm done x

Just thought to add- we also have relationships property act here in nz which entitles you to half the assets from the marriage in the event of a split. This would include his retirement fund, the house, and cash savings etc.

Witches - reading your posts has brought up so many memories for me. I moved with Aussie DH to Australia nearly 11 years ago - we brought one DS with us and had another one here. I have no chance of moving back to the UK with my children unless he agrees, because they have settled status here.

At 6 months, your children may not have achieved settled status yet, but the longer you leave it, the more likely they will be considered to be "settled" and you will required permission to take them back. I don't know the NZ laws - others have said already that you can't take them without his permission but you'd need to look into that properly with legal advice.

When I first came out here, I had to put myself out there to meet people, as, like you, I'd left family, friends and career back in the UK. It was hard but I did it. You've already done that.

My next "thing" was going back to the UK at 6months to see my Dad and because I'd stupidly left important paperwork for tax return filing at my Dad's house - and this got me past the classic 6 month slump that many people warned me about.

But. I can't say that even after this long I'm happy here. DH is better than yours by the sound of it, but he also doesn't understand why I'm not just thrilled to be here .

your H sounds like an utterly selfish twat though - his failure to listen, to understand and to help you cope is quite astoundingly awful of him.

It doesn't matter that you've been sad, depressed, angry - that's fucking NORMAL. He should have been more accommodating and helpful and he's just basically shoved you out without even a lifebelt and told you to fucking swim or drown.

And I know you keep saying he's a fantastic dad and so on but he's not, is he. He's spending all hours getting drunk, just being "fun dad" when he's around and being a cunt to you - how is that being a decent dad? It's not. He's little better than a disney dad.

If I were you, I'd try to get back to the UK to see your parents as soon as you're allowed to - preferably with the children - and consider your options.

But definitely take legal advice.

You do need legal advice and fast!

I've never heard of anyone getting spousal maintain here. Not that its not possible but it's really not common. And it sounds like he is such an arse that he would hide income anyway.

But you would be entitled to 50% of any assets he has. With working for families, tax credits and child maintenance most woman get by although not easily.

He may be willing to give up access to his children in exchange for his new free NZ life.

Perimenopause is awful but the bigger issue is his lack of respect for your feelings and how much you don't want to be in NZ.

I came here from another thread and it was so weird when I read your opening post. That could potentially have been me at the same age - right down to the North Shore location, the children’s ages, my father with Parkinson’s, us having a settled location in London.

The difference being that my DH wasn’t being pressured to return by his family and hadn’t said overtly that it was always his plan to move back. His motivation was feeling stuck in a career he didn’t like here, and failing to get something better , and us being in a too small house with little hope of moving up without moving in some way ( outwards) any way.

I was neutral about the idea of moving to NZ - didn’t like the thought of losing my friends and support group, the children were in great schools, my father’s increasing frailty and my mother’s potential for not coping, the thought that when the girls grew up they might move back to the UK versus the possibility of a more comfortable life ( property prices in Auckland hadn’t gone nuts then ) and his right to have a choice in our location and my career was on the back burner ( in a similar field to you, OP )

I was also going through the peri menopause and all over the place.

I suggested that he thoroughly thought about it and look into how he thought his career would pan out. Long story short : he decided that the reason he had for leaving NZ ( just some OE ) but then staying on for another 10 years in the UK before meeting me were valid and that he wanted to be somewhere more central to the world. He then did get a different job in the UK - something very much better.

So, we didn’t make the move - I have sometimes thought ( especially after a nice holiday in NZ, down on the family bach ( very flash one ) on Coramandel) that it would have been fine if we had moved - but when we went through a couple of bad patches in our marriage, I was really glad I was here, not stranded in a foreign land.

My thoughts are with you, OP .

It is shocking that your DH has said he is going to leave you after lockdown. This seems like a v bizarre reaction to something that has only been brewing for a couple of months.

From your other threads it sounds like you never expressed your concerns to him about moving at any point. You were the one actively and proactively managing of the move logistics. You must have shown some motivation when you got to NZ to go out and buy a house?

Did he ever know that you didn’t want this?

Then after long summer, settling in your house with a pool you start to voice your unhappiness and distress as it becomes apparent that the business is not as lucrative as you thought and your family is significantly financially worse off.

It came out like a bomb in Feb.

Was this the first time your DH knew you were unhappy? If so it seems that it’s is v rapid trajectory from long blissful
marriage to new life chapter move to marriage over.

What was the emotional state of your marriage over the years? Was it truly intimate and deeply rewarding or just superficial and all the fun and joy in your lives was gained outside the relationship with extended family and friends?

You must have been to NZ plenty of times for extended periods spending time with his dreadful family and known that you felt this isn’t for you - but didn’t seem to express that to him. Why did you feel that you were unable to state your needs?

Trust me, staying in a different country for a holiday, however extended, is NOT the same as moving somewhere. It really, really isn't.

You have my sympathy. I'm married to someone from a European country. I want to stay in the UK. He wants to move to his home country. There is no solution. One of us will be unhappy either way. It's very difficult for couples in this situation. At least if I did move to his country I'd only be a couple of hours from the UK and could come back frequently. It's a lot harder for you. I can't really tell if there are serious issues in your relationship (excluding this) or if all the problems relate to you being unhappy in NZ. If it's the latter I think you should give it more time. Maybe consider the influence of perimenopause hormone disruption causing added stress and anxiety. I'm going through peeimenopause now and have never felt so anxious or emotionally unstable.

I agree peri-menopause can be a MH catastrophe which amplifies any issues out of all proportion. I couldn’t celebrate my 50th as looking at the trail of destruction behind me in my late 40’s was excruciating.

I said up thread to sort your own internal world first, MH and peri - once this is on an even keel you will have better perspective and stable ground to look at the external issues.

Really shocking that your DH wants to leave right now.

Your DCs need you both calm and cooperative to allow them to settle after moving across the world before their family is splintered.

Those would be my priority for the next few weeks and months.

Sounds really tough. A friend with a very rocky marriage moved to NZ and I worry about her mental stability and future.

Suggest you stay as calm as you can and focus on your own emotional well-being and that of the DC for the moment.

I wish you all the best.

So what tends to be the solution for perimenopause? Is it HRT or something else?

@Gutterton

It is shocking that your DH has said he is going to leave you after lockdown. This seems like a v bizarre reaction to something that has only been brewing for a couple of months.
From your other threads it sounds like you never expressed your concerns to him about moving at any point. You were the one actively and proactively managing of the move logistics. You must have shown some motivation when you got to NZ to go out and buy a house? It's odd. I didn't want to go, but as I've said before, it always felt 'mandatory' in our relationship. Something we would do but that kept getting put off, fortunately, mostly because of his successful career but then when we bought our final house I said it had to be for at least 5 years as it was a big renovation project. It then felt as if I had run out of excuses. And I'm the organiser so yes, I did the selling bit. With hindsight we should obviously have rented but we already have a rental and the idea of someone trashing our beautiful home etc put me off - it had a few of the idiosyncrasies that period properties have and needed care. Sounds stupid now. So we had cash when we arrived, rentals are nigh on impossible to find and I was desperate to get out of the in-laws and avoid having to put the kids into one school then move when we found a house. But yes, I did express concerns - in previous years in a more oblique way with excuses not to go, the five year plan. But last year more assertively, with facts and reasons. Emotionally I didn't want to leave my life, but also joined an expat website to look into the practical considerations and found A LOT of people in my position now. Unhappy, pining for home and on anti-depressants - if you're not a country/hiking/fishing person before, you won't change, the superficially friendly, but generally unwelcoming nature of friendship groups, lack of culture and stimulation beyond the aforementioned hobbies, astronomical cost of living and poor work life balance that results etc. I spoke about these exact points constructively and was dismissed as negative, I had screaming banshee arguments. All before we had sold the house or resigned.
Did he ever know that you didn’t want this? yep
Then after long summer, settling in your house with a pool you start to voice your unhappiness and distress as it becomes apparent that the business is not as lucrative as you thought and your family is significantly financially worse off.
For me the money is the last thing I care about, the reason it's an issue is because of the shock / deceit - I was told lies at worst, misunderstandings as best. I now suspect that DH was hoodwinked by his family in their desperation to get him back. I know this is a first world problem (and at the risk of sounding like a wanker) for the last four years we have travelled long haul at Easter with friends, Europe in the summer for two weeks, a couple of Airbnb weekends and obviously NZ every two years. To be told that we now cannot afford a holiday was a shock. For a family who used to save, to now be using those saving for bills, was not something I agreed to. I am frugal and worry about the future.

It came out like a bomb in Feb.
Was this the first time your DH knew you were unhappy? If so it seems that it’s is v rapid trajectory from long blissful
marriage to new life chapter move to marriage over.

No, from October to the end of Jan I was desperately sad, going through the motions, but not as volatile and angry as I became in February. I also kept busy - the house, joining school, container arriving, Christmas.... I also think I wore him away - as I found more and more things, both subjective and objective reasons to dislike it,he put his back up and got defensive. I get that.

What was the emotional state of your marriage over the years? Was it truly intimate and deeply rewarding or just superficial and all the fun and joy in your lives was gained outside the relationship with extended family and friends?

We were quite volatile, mainly arguments based around his Friday night drinking/Saturday morning shity-ness but I think close. He was much ‘softer’ at home and we did a lot on our own. He was a bit shit round the house and could nag I guess. And I think I have probably painted the wrong picture of my social life. As an introvert, I didn't go out much, probably only a night out every couple of months, Saturday or Sunday lunch with them every two or three weeks. What was valuable to me was bumping into my best friend on the tube, someone stopping for a few drinks after playdate pick up, banter with colleagues, taking the kids to the park and letting them run around while we talked. I enjoyed Sunday rugby because we would have a beer in the bar with different ‘rugby’ friends, I looked forward to Thursday swimming because I made a friend there whose children had the same ridiculously spaced lessons so we were there for two hours. I’m actually a homebody who completely underestimated those seemingly trivial interactions. The family thing is just my parents. My sadness and guilt, they are not doing great.

You must have been to NZ plenty of times for extended periods spending time with his dreadful family and known that you felt this isn’t for you - but didn’t seem to express that to him. Why did you feel that you were unable to state your needs?

We used to go at Christmas for three weeks, obviously not representative of real life.

@JellyfishandShells

That is sooooo weird - we could have been friends! 'Our' bach is the other way, up at Langs beach near Waipu.

Well done though - I'm slightly jealous x

I'm a bit worried.
We actually had an ok day yesterday and I was confident that I can persuade him to buy some time. But then DD was on the phone to MIL and something weird happened. Usually she just talks shit, but she asked DD what her favourite food was and was quite pressing, almost asking for a list and making suggestions.
DH would have to live with them for a while if we separated so I'm worried they are plotting. Like I said, he tells her everything including my private medical stuff so I wouldn't be surprised.

Im so very sorry you have all this to deal with i dont have any advice i could give so will give you an unmumsnetty virtual hug. Please do take care

Find a lawyer and book an advice session with them. You have to know where you stand, if he is plotting with his parents

I'm confused, you had equity from London property before you met, but now you have no sight of family finances and are dependent? In your shoes, I'd have a long hard think about whether he was quite as decent a person as you believe. Good dad's dont move continents without their children.

I have just read your whole thread and my heart goes out to you. It all seems insurmountable.

I totally understand some of how you feel. I was an expat for years and moving counties and settling in and building a life is hard. But I made fantastic friends and had a great life most of the time. Some places were harder than others but we were all in the same boat and mucked in together and got through. In fact although I am Irish living in the UK three of my best friends are Australian and Kiwi and live there. I agree the time difference is a bitch for zoom parties etc.

My hardest move has been back to the uk. We have been back 9 years and I haven’t really made any friends where we are. We were looking at moving again within the uk to where an area where I would be closer to some of my friends. Mostly friends from an expat posting funnily enough.

Peri menopause is an absolute nightmare for some. I have seen a few friends absolutely felled by it. Women who were strong and stable and happy. Hit them like a train. Medication definitely helped them.

In your shoes I would prioritise getting that sorted.

The other thing I would prioritise is getting legal advice on whether at this stage your dc are considered habitual residents and if it would be possible to leave with them. Do it on Monday. Don’t put it off. Time is of the essence. If they are then at least you know one way or the other.

Your DH sounds like a bit of a shit to be honest. Sounds like he left NZ quite young and is catching up on bachelor life now with his mates and brothers.

He is currently not a great dad. And maybe never was. He’s the fun uncle type. A good dad wouldn’t put his dc at risk the way he did when his brother came from LA. A good dad wouldn’t then go incommunicado for two weeks leaving his dc with a woman he knew was unhappy, depressed, feeling isolate and angry. He was too busy having fun.

I’m wondering if he always planned to leave you once he got you there with the dc. There seemed to be some deception going on with regard to the family business etc.

I would seriously get as much info as I could about the business and finances etc. Get the legal advice about whether you can leave. The fact that he has told you already that he wants to leave and you have only been there a relatively short time may well help your case legally.

I see others suggested various things like moving from where you are to make commuting easier etc amongst other things and you have come up with lots of reasons why you won’t or can’t. And yet in your previous life if I can call it that you are a doer. An organiser. Your reluctance to make changes now is more than likely caused by depression. It can feel overwhelming to even try to think about making any changes.

Your depression is obviously understandable. And could also be part of your peri symptoms. As well as the situation you find your self in. Which would be hard at any time. Add in peri menopause and an unsupportive dick of a husband and you have the perfect storm.

As someone who has moved around a lot I would always advise giving it at least a year in a new country. More if it’s a permanent move. Even if it’s a move you wanted. But you didn’t want this move. So it will always have been really hard for you to settle.

Find out the legal position first.
Then sort out the peri menopause symptoms and your mental health.
Then depending on the legal situation you can make a decision. Keep trying with your DH - marriage counselling may help but I suspect your DH may not be receptive.

I find it interesting that your previous issues with your DH were usually to do with his drinking. And now he is drinking even more. And it’s normalised so much more in your current set up than the life you had in London. Can you see him cutting back on that at all?

I really feel for you as it all seems so impossible to try to sort to make everyone happy.

A quick scan of some very clear legal links on child custody cases suggests that a NZ court will base decisions on what is the best outcome for the child(ren) in question. Agree with others that now is the time to explore with a lawyer what evidence would help make a case for a return to what they are familiar with in the UK.

He has said he will leave you. Please please explore options to get you and the children back to uk ASAP. He has the choice and can come to uk too. 6mths in NZ is not 'settled' and an unhappy mother is not the best for them.

Yes, I have to agree that if you are at all hoping to return to the UK, with or without your H, you need to move fast with the legal advice.
The longer you leave it, the more "settled" your DC become and the less likely it is that any court decisions will go your way in terms of taking them back to the UK.

Thanks everyone.
I have some local family law/Hague Convention contacts from a lovely Mumsnet poster, and have emailed an outline of my situation so I can get top line thoughts/fees etc.
If it’s a definite no, I know where I stand, if there is a possibility, I then need to make a decision.

It’s such a tough call because of the kids.
Depressed mum (possibly improving) and stay here vs ‘proper’ single mum at home and very limited access to their dad.

Either could screw up the children however hard we try.

Meanwhile he’s been doing his utmost to wind me up. He’s growing a beard after being clean shaven for 13 years knowing I hate facial hair, he’s vaping all day every day when he used to have a Friday night rule (he stinks like an old lady’s knicker drawer), wearing clothes he knows I hate, more loud FaceTime darts and telling me he’s having the garage soundproofed so the ‘boys’ can come round every Friday til 4am. Little stuff but designed to dig.
Oh, and it’s my birthday today and he’s sat round the side of the house vaping most of the day.

While a new NZ friend sent me the attached quote...... x

Ugh, he sounds like a hideous manchild. I'm so sorry. I hope you can get good info from the law contacts and find a way out of this mess.

Happy Birthday!

Happy birthday, enjoy the sunshine x

He sounds utterly horrible. I take back what I said earlier - you will struggle if you are having to deal with your twat of a DH AND assimilate into a new life. Hope you can find a way to get home.