Just need to share - no solution

[Witchesandwizards]

I met my kiwi husband 13 years ago in London, I am 48, he is 42 and we have two children, 10 and 7. We moved to NZ October 2019 against my wishes, but my husband always wanted to come back.

It was always an understanding that at some point we would move to NZ but this was decided before children, before my parents became frail and it kept getting put off as we built a successful and comfortable life in London with a close network of friends. I hoped that this would mean we didn’t have to move. By the time he decided we should move, I didn’t want to, but my husband held me to a ‘promise’ I had made 12 years earlier, and despite a lot of arguments, we set the wheels in motion and moved 6 months ago.

Immediately I felt homesick and suddenly realised that I had taken my life for granted, but emotionally I still felt in control and we threw ourselves into finding a house. And when we moved into that house, I looked forward to our container arriving and then it was Christmas. I spent 4 months either expecting things to improve or busy with the holidays. I still cried, we still had arguments, but nothing could prepare me for how I felt when the kids went back to school.

At the start of February it hit me like a ton of bricks that I have left most of my family and all my friends, my career, the home we renovated together, the city I love and my country of birth. It dawned that the rest of my life could be unhappy, living in a place I hate and don’t belong. At almost 50, I don’t really have much chance of building a life that is as fulfilling as my old one - I feel bereft and trapped. The best way I can describe it is that it feels like I’m in a coma and someone is trying to turn off my life support and however hard I try to yell, I can’t make them understand that I’m alive. I feel trapped in a nightmare - I have lost all control over my life. It’s a horror movie. I can’t even look back at last year and all the planning and believe I actually came. It’s a blur. I don’t know how I got on the plane.
Everything I do reminds me of an occasion, place or person from home. Hundreds of times a day. Music makes me sad, photos make me sad, social media makes me sad. I’ve always been the sort of person who can compartmentalise my problems, and still get up every day and find something to enjoy, putting a face on through hard times and still functioning well at work and socially. But now I only function for the children and nothing brings me joy. I have deserted my parents when they need me most, I argue and fight with my husband in front of the children, I don’t earn a living and I am horrible to live with.

Consequently, we are having terrible marriage problems - I’m not playing ball and embracing life as he wants me to, and he says I am negative. He is the classic extrovert and I am a natural introvert but with extrovert ‘cover’ when needed - he thinks I should socialise more to get out of my rut, find a job (after a 24 year career in advertising, I can’t get work for logistical/childcare reasons, age and now probably recession), and is pissed off that I don’t want to hang out with his family all the time (I don’t particularly get on with them). In return I have been absolutely vile to live with, lashing out (not physically) because I blame and resent him for my situation. He is now talking about separation but has said I can’t take the children home so I would have to stay here with 50% access, spending half my time alone in a country I never wanted to live in. I don’t know if I love him, I can’t see the wood for the trees.
I know I am depressed, but what good are anti-depressants, I need a time machine.

If you got this far thank you! There is nothing anyone can do to help but writing it down maybe helped. Or maybe not. 3.30am and I'm done x

Yeah you have to love a holiday where you do all the cooking and cleaning in a place that is shit-ter than your home.

The holiday, is it with him? I would honestly do a runner and sort the legal side out in the UK. It's a big move but you have all lived in the UK your whole life - the idea that he can force you to stay as suddenly the kids 'belong' to nz is just Ridiculous. Bonkers.

Get out while he's got his eye off the ball. He sounds just awful.

I will also say, in defence of NZ (if you can call it that) that Aus is not much better. I know Londoners who moved into biggish bungalows with pools and parrots in the garden and were just SO lonely and cut off. The only pub or social scene was a 'leagues club' (basically a working men's club with sports - men's of course) AND you had to drive to it!!!!!

We visited and I went for a walk. There was nothing. Suburbs for miles and miles and miles. And a tyre shop. It's hard to explain how trapped that can make you feel. They were even though they almost certainly came from a working class area. They missed their friends. They missed the fun and the chat. A pool can never compensate for that but pride wouldn't let them go back. Plus the house wasn't worth anything to sell and of course London was more expensive.

Not working, no career prospects and no way to make your own (proper money). I'm sorry but anyone who thinks the OP needs to just suck it up for the rest of her life (there will be grandkids etc) and completely forget her own family, friends and life just doesn't understand.

Get out. Get happy. They need a happy Mum more than they need a part time dad once a week who's getting what he wants at your expense. It's actually borderline abusive.

@Witchesandwizards - do you think there would be any chance he would consider moving back to London? If you maybe had counselling together and were able to talk with an objective person there? I know joint counselling isn’t recommended with abusive partners but I honestly think your H is just an immature dickhead with a drinking issue.

I was wondering if a few calm conversations with him about your family unit and asking if he is really happy would help. I know for me it would be worth a try at least. Plant the idea that he isn’t happy either. Which to be honest I’m not sure he is.

How were the birthday celebrations? Did DD enjoy herself or did she comment about the friends she was missing from home? How did the outlaws behave? We’re your efforts recognised?

Sorry. Random bloody apostrophe strikes again! Did DH behave or drink to excess? Did he hang around with the kids or piss off again to play hedonist?
I feel like nobody’s asking the right questions about behaviours here and everyone’s going around in circles.

But do you think your children are picking up on your sadness and homesickness and it’s directing their own emotions and feelings? Is DD just making these comments apropos of nothing or are you prompting her? Her comments re. playing like kids vs playing on screens / talking about boyfriends are hers and very real - she gets upset at play dates because no one plays, and she tried to take their phones off them at the door before her party. Her close friends at home were a lot more like regular 10 year olds and mostly boys or Muslim girls and definitely not as privileged as these kids.
She also spent a long time in lockdown (when the time difference wasn't too much of a ball ache) contacting her friends from home but ignoring calls from her friends here.
Her homesickness is similar to mine, not only does she miss her friends and sports at home, but she is struggling with both here.

In the end I did a mini festival for her birthday - we have an empty double garage which I transformed with 30m of metallic backdrop, disco bulbs and karaoke. 'Camping' in the playroom and fairy lights around the whole house. The party bags contained glitter make up, face masks and sleep masks which all got used. It all looked amazing.

She didn't mention her friends specifically, but at 1am came in to my room crying because the girls had all fallen out with each other and she doesn't want any more parties here. It's the first party ever that her friends oldest friends have not been at her party, and at home we would have been culling numbers not putting this on for 3 guests....
DH was around all day to set up and drank but not too much. He stayed the night but left pretty early in the morning to go for lunch with his mate then off to Eden park for the rugby.

We were super proud of DS this week as he got the principal's award for his class this term - he 'shows kindness, respect and resilience, and will always find a way to help others. His great sense of humour and good nature help to make our room a great place to be'. We got to sit in assembly when he collected it. We can't be doing all bad with him.

@Vodkacranberryplease That's exactly what I say to DH - why the fuck would I want to go and sleep in a bed that smells funny and gives me back ache, where I want to go to bed at 10/11pm but everyone stands outside our bedroom door talking/arguing/crying at 4am and where no one cleans the fucking toilet?!? I'd rather go camping.
I will go for two nights when the weather is good enough to swim in the sea, or if our friends are at their beach house up the road. Otherwise I'm staying in my house where we almost have a loo each.

DH is not going to the UK.
Not that we are now (fucking pandemic), but if you read the other posts re, the Hague Convention I would be in deep legal shit. My police Superintendent brother wouldn't be too happy!

But, I now feel strong enough to leave the kids with him and go by myself if I can, probably via Oz and HK. I just need to see my dad.
In fact, I feel quite gleeful about it and the challenge it will present DH as this is our current sports schedule:

Monday DD netball practice 4.30 pm
Tuesday DS swimming 3.45, DD swimming 4pm
Wednesday DS football practice 4pm DD netball matches 4-7pm
Thursday DD rugby training 4.30pm
Friday DS football matches 5.15pm
Saturday 9am DD rugby matches, DS flippa Ball alternate afternoons
Sunday DS flippa ball matches 3pm

School pick up is 3pm but you need to be there 20 minutes early or there are no parking spaces and all activities are in different locations (traffic is SHITE after school).
He has never cooked a proper meal for the kids - just pizza etc and heated meals I prepare.

@Peridot1 I think there is a chance of we can work out our differences. He has been a lot more empathetic recently and we actually got on ok at DDs birthday. I've tried to explain to him that we were a lot more equal in London - career, friends etc. The only difference (and it's a massive one obviously) is family. But he did see his parents for the same amount of time each year on average. We would see my parents for a day or two each month and we would see his for a block of time. Which is better is subjective. But it's also much easier with annual leave/school holidays to visit NZ from the UK at Christmas that it is to visit the UK from NZ in July.

I did find some notes he wrote a few months ago where he has written that he could be happy in London but happier here, and I could only be happy in London. He scribbled it out but I could read it still. So he gets it.

Hey @Witchesandwizards, me again, I'm still following :) I just read your updates re: DD's experience with friends - about them being more interested in boyfriends and makeup at 10 years old than playing outside. Please believe me when I say it's a geographical anomaly! Seriously, pick a different +/- bigger school (?less privileged) and you'll see much more of the things and behaviours your DD misses. My DS goes to a culturally diverse public school and the year 6 kids there look out for the little kids, play outside, build stuff, not a device in sight. Decile 7 school.

If you're having to stay in NZ, please move, sooner rather than later. Maybe your DH might agree to move south of the bridge as a compromise, if he doesn't let you take the kids to the UK?

I know I've said it before, but there are "your people" here, they just don't live where you do on the shore (apologies to the exceptions)! Your DD is finding the same, no doubt. Please consider changing schools once she goes to intermediate if you're staying, to remove her from this mentality. My friend had to do it as her DD eventually developed an eating disorder. This crap is toxic, but it's not everywhere. Find a high school that you like the vibe of and angle to move into its area - chances are the intermediate will have the same vibe. It will be scruffier looking, the living around it will be denser, but it will probably be more "normal", where it will be ok not to like sports and only sports, where it'll be ok to have other interests.

Also, don't be fooled into thinking sports is all prevailing- the sport nutters are just loud and like to ram their hobby fanatism down everyone's throats. Those of us who are not fussed about sport just let them be loud but get on with our non-sporty hobbies. We do exist, you just have to scratch the surface to find us, because the louts are louder ;) It's still probably easier to find us in Auckland and Wellington - more rurally, our kindred have to disguise themselves as sport mad just to survive (as that's seen as conforming), from a young age. That's a heartbreaking reality I've heard a fair few times from my mates here who came from farming background. I suppose the silver lining is that at least your DH's parents' business wasn't a farm in the wop-wops!

How are you OP?

Hm sounds like this could change and the novelty could wear off - especially if you go to the UK without him and come back having had a wonderful time. As long as you time it for when his family is too busy to do all the work for him.

As for the disgusting beach house - you're right you're better off camping. And you absolutely can not be anywhere with him and the children where you are expected to cook and clean.

Can you move ftom the north shore? I lived in Mission bay/kohimarama for a while and remember it actually being pretty decent. It wasn't that far from town and there were some good restaurants and bars. And there is a fabulous hidden beach off st heliers. Or st Mary's bay is nice. Then you could work/start a business.

But he left for a reason. Rugby in nz is like football here - not like going to the rugby here which is nicer. Can you live in London that long and go back to living there? I couldn't. He's got his way but will be starting to see what he's lost. No opposition from you gives him that chance, and not having your company and the children shines a light on it too.

Are you okay OP?

How are you getting on?

Hello everyone
I hope you're all enjoying a bit more freedom.

I have not been on for a while - a combination of complete emotional exhaustion, the kids using my laptop, and early nights to try and make up for the insomnia.
DH applied for mediation so we have that coming up, and it's to look at our relationship as well as well as the children's wellbeing and custody. They have recommended the children for something called Voice of the Child so the children's feelings about the break up will be assessed. It's a bit weird though as it doesn't feel permanent yet - he is just staying with his parents until we can both work out what we want. He's also in no position to split childcare 50:50 because of the set up at his parent's, work and the kid's crazy sports schedule and sleepover calendar. He said I should have them 75:25 because of his work so that it good.

I spoke to our mediator a couple of days ago to have an initial assessment and, like with the lawyer and GP, I think I am lucky with who we have been allocated. She lectures in change management at the university and has had a couple of tough weeks counselling overseas students who are stranded here so understands my situation. She is very concerned about what she called his stonewalling - how he constantly ignores my calls and emails and his inability to answer any of my questions but less concerned about the family alcoholism (she manages custody with drug addicts so I guess it's all relative). She also understands that I need answers to questions in order to move on and will meet with me before we meet together so we can work out how to frame those questions. She recognises my loneliness, grief and resentment and has recommended grief counselling. In typical gaslighting mode, he replied 'I've been telling you that you need to see someone for ages, I'm glad I got professionals involved' when I told him.

I'm sure that my anger and my reluctance to integrate with his family and friends will be his main issue with me. As she has already labelled his behaviour as stonewalling and this is the impact, I think my anger is understandable (not excusing it, but explains it):

A person who is being stonewalled tends to feel hurt and angry. They become frustrated with trying to be heard and may begin to stonewall themselves. However, since men do not typically respond to stonewalling the same way women do, women who stonewall in return continue to feel shut out.

When someone is stonewalled regularly, they may begin to doubt their value as a person or feel like they're going crazy. This is a natural response because stonewalling is a form of gaslighting. They not only feel dismissed, but they may begin to feel worthless, powerless, and hopeless. The experience can leave them feeling confused and weak, making it difficult for them to leave the relationship. Alternatively, it might make them feel so angry that they leave as quickly as they can. After leaving, they may need help from a mental health professional to heal from the experience.

I have also made the difficult decision to go home and see my parents on my own in August. I think my dad feels he hasn't got very long left - when I suggested it, he immediately said he would put money in my account for a flight. He usually hates a fuss and putting people out, so I was not expecting him to agree given what a ball ache travel will be with quarantine etc. It means leaving the kids for a month though. I am going to move the flights we had booked for this week to December so the kids can see him, and then book our 'next year flights' for July while flights are still reasonably priced.

He sent me an email yesterday saying that he still loves me and that I have pushed him away.
I dreaded his key in the door every night and was waiting for him to carry out his threat of leaving, we had nothing to say to each other - he refuses to answer my questions and I have no interest in his work, family and friends right now. It's much more chilled with just me and the kids. Until he can make my life more positive there is no room for him in it.

This weekend is the first weekend he has had the kids for more than a day. They are at the dreaded beach house, but I think without IL's and BIL/SIL, just rule bending LA BIL. DS didn't want to go but I persuaded him. I'm finding it tough because I don't really have anything to do so I'm just pottering around. It's going to be very hard being a single parent.

Mediation could be good then? That’s a good description of stonewalling, and it’s great that the mediator sees he’s doing it.

How come DS didn’t want to go to the beach house? It must be hard to have made him go anyway. But hopefully they’ll have a good time when they’re there.

It’ll be lovely to see your dad. Only a month to go now. It’ll be really strange for you all for you to be away for so long

Just hugs because I can't imagine how sad and difficult this is for you

Thank you @RandomMess - it's all very surreal

I spoke to my brother this morning and finally opened up about how hard everything is here. Not about how bad our marriage is, but the unexpected financial and logistical problems and how angry I am with DH that he wasn't prepared for this. I also mentioned the business situation and he confirmed that he remembers DH saying he would be given 50% of it. It feels good to have prepared the ground a bit.
I told him about the low wage economy vs high cost of living, and we realised that my (ex professional) friends who are now working as teaching assistants are earning just under 4 cucumbers an hour with the hourly pay at about $18.50ph and cucumbers currently costing $5.40. They go up to $7 in the next few weeks apparently.

@ThickFast I really think that he feels mediation will support him and verify all the shit he has been spouting about my anger, and in some areas it will - I will have to be calmer about his family, he will have to have formal access - but they will also look at how he treats me and his changing view that I'm choosing to be miserable vs. having a mental breakdown depending which scenario suits him.

With DS I think it was a combination of not wanting to leave me on my own (inevitably they are aware that I don't have anyone else here), the beach house being a bit boring and uncomfortable in winter, and him leaving his toys and TV.
Anyway, DD has just got a phone - no SIM so limited use, but she texted me at midnight last night to say they had just got back from the restaurant with a picture of DS asleep in the restaurant. And he has the cheek if they are sleepy at home after a day at school and sports club to ask me what time they went to bed. I'm going to find single parenting tricky!!

Sorry @Witchesandwizards - I read your post yesterday and didn't know what would be the right thing to say. I still don't. Something right will come of all this, eventually. I am sorry about your kids being stuck at the beach house. It's been so cold in the past week and I'm guessing it's a typical NZ shed bach. What would he say if you asked if the kids could come with you to see your dad in August? I'm not talking any crazy abduction strategies, just a visit and see how things go.

Wow, 4 cucumbers an hour. It does sound so expensive there! Did the kids have a nice time in the end? It’s great you’ve spoken to family about it all and have back up on what you thought was agreed. Did your brother have any other advice?

Hi Witches - Pleased that you found a mediator you like, but it seems as if your DH is somewhat confused between mediation where the purpose is to effectively get some closure on the past in order to move forward and counselling. It could be that mediation may be deferred until after counselling, I don't know.

It's interesting that he says he loves you and that you have pushed him away in an email but then stonewalls you in RL. But his whole family seem a bit emotionally unavailable and competitive using money, influence, and blind loyalty that Tony Soprano would be proud of as the currency rather than emotions.

Amazing how his behaviour has changed so drastically since being in NZ, or maybe he was able to adapt better in London where that side of his personality wasn't aired in public?

@anticon, thank you. Yes, one up from the typical shed but chilly non-the-less. I just can't be arsed in winter when I have a heat pump, comfy bed and clean loo at home! But MIL is so bloody desperate to have her family around her that she has just bought a pool table and spa to make it more appealing in winter. And they all came back stinking because hippy LA BIL has made it his home and was wafting incense sticks around.

I've just booked for me and the kids to go back at Christmas
So we have three weeks in the UK and 2 weeks in quarantine which I will probably regret, but I'll make it up to the kids when we are away.
It still might not happen, but it's there if everything is going ok.

@ThickFast my brother specialises in modern day slavery (police) and he pointed out the cucumbers. It is bonkers. They did have a good time but DH had it easy - he picked them up an hour late, McDonalds on the way, out for a pizza and stayed at the restaurant until midnight, MIL made them breakfast and he dropped them off an hour late at 6pm having not fed them lunch. So I ended up with a load of dirty washing and dirty, tired, hungry kids. Fun Uncle.....

He didn't have a drink all weekend though. Apparently, now he's 'responsible for the children' he has changed. DD is 11, DS is 7

@ilovemydogandMrObama I definitely think he confused counselling and mediation. It's basically an attempt for us to avoid court. Custody, money, property etc.

When I told the mediator he pops in every night after work she said that isn't right - he needs to have them for the afternoon/evening and she said the eventual aim is 50:50. I told DH and he said he can't do 50:50 because of work - how can he do school pick up at 3pm and then sports etc as he can never guarantee where he will be from one day to the next? He said 'I thought you wanted 75:25. Obviously I do, but I'm also not going to be the weekday parent while he is weekend parent!
This obviously illustrates the problem with me working that I have been trying to get through to him. If he can't do 2-3 nights a week, and the same ones, how can I work? They do have after school club, but this would mean they couldn't do any sports clubs and it is only until 5.30pm. DH will be travelling abroad eventually....

Re. his behaviour, I think he's a bit of a chameleon and as my writer friend pointed out while in London amongst our liberal friends he adapted a similar life and now here the macho antipodean has appeared. But it's mainly his family. They can do no wrong and he will do anything they want.

This evening the woman who will be carrying out the 'Voice of The Child' session called me and I had a long chat with her. Another fabulous professional and, helpfully also a family lawyer. She was most impressed with who the lawyer I have helping me is, and that, as a QC he responded to a direct email, called me on a public holiday and charged me a token sum. He's big guns.
She was very sympathetic and a bit shocked by my plight. She followed up with a lovely email telling me to look after myself, and again, another recommendation for counselling. When I told her DH thinks I'm miserable and that he is pissed off I won't socialise she just said, rubbish, that would be impossible for you.

I just want him to understand. Have some empathy. He keeps saying 'but you have been rude about my family'.

THEY LIED TO GET US HERE. I HAVE GIVEN UP MY LIFE FOR THEM.

He has a bad shoulder and he told him that his doctor said it's because of stress. Bless him.

On the other hand, this is the sort of people my parents are.
Before they knew we were moving here, they put a clause in their will that would give the children money to pay for a flight to NZ to visit his family every year until they are 21.

Perhaps in mediation you need to point out "How can I ever work here or build a life if you refuse to commit to parenting your DC" Remind he works for the family business so of course he can arrange his hours to finish work every Wednesday and Thursday to finish at 3pm!

You need to stop the popping in and restrict him to only having EOW.

Actually you can turn around and say if you will only have the DC EOW which is 52 days per year that is only 7 weeks then they may as well just come out here for school
Holidays 3 times per year and we could return to the UK and have a better standard of living.

Yes, your statement in capitals pretty much sums it all up. Why it’s so shit. I’m so pleased you’ve got good professionals working for you. Must be very reassuring.

Your parents sound lovely. How is your dad doing?

@RandomMess Oh the irony. He came here so he could be flexible and be his own boss (as well as happy, secure and chilled ). Now he's turned around and said 'as a salesman, the job runs me, I don't run it'.

Reading between the lines they are struggling a bit. Lockdown means that hospitals have a bit of a stockpile and are still not ordering. When I advised him to use up his holiday when I'm away, he said he can't - he feels guilty even though he has holiday left, because he's currently not bringing in revenue himself. Hey ho.

At the moment I'm keeping my mouth shut. 75:25 pretty much means I could keep the house and have maintenance. He's even told the mediator he can't see the kids more because of his work. I don't think he realises how important this is.

He has stopped popping in. It was a time of day that the kids are tired and ignored him anyway!

@ThickFast Thank you for your post. He is ok, thanks. The weird thing about Parkinsons is that it doesn't kill you, but you slowly and painfully fade away. He is very thin, very tired and in quite a lot of pain. But in reality it could still be a year or two. I have to respond for him, me and for my future mental health, but it may not be the last time.
Covid and, ironically living in a Covid free country, could not have come at a worse time.
It's my 50th next April so I plan to go home by myself then and take the kids again in July.

He's not very bright is he...

After it's all sorted he may realise that it will save him money if you move back... you could do him a deal

@RandomMess
I'm waiting for him to dig his own grave.....