Just need to share - no solution

[Witchesandwizards]

I met my kiwi husband 13 years ago in London, I am 48, he is 42 and we have two children, 10 and 7. We moved to NZ October 2019 against my wishes, but my husband always wanted to come back.

It was always an understanding that at some point we would move to NZ but this was decided before children, before my parents became frail and it kept getting put off as we built a successful and comfortable life in London with a close network of friends. I hoped that this would mean we didn’t have to move. By the time he decided we should move, I didn’t want to, but my husband held me to a ‘promise’ I had made 12 years earlier, and despite a lot of arguments, we set the wheels in motion and moved 6 months ago.

Immediately I felt homesick and suddenly realised that I had taken my life for granted, but emotionally I still felt in control and we threw ourselves into finding a house. And when we moved into that house, I looked forward to our container arriving and then it was Christmas. I spent 4 months either expecting things to improve or busy with the holidays. I still cried, we still had arguments, but nothing could prepare me for how I felt when the kids went back to school.

At the start of February it hit me like a ton of bricks that I have left most of my family and all my friends, my career, the home we renovated together, the city I love and my country of birth. It dawned that the rest of my life could be unhappy, living in a place I hate and don’t belong. At almost 50, I don’t really have much chance of building a life that is as fulfilling as my old one - I feel bereft and trapped. The best way I can describe it is that it feels like I’m in a coma and someone is trying to turn off my life support and however hard I try to yell, I can’t make them understand that I’m alive. I feel trapped in a nightmare - I have lost all control over my life. It’s a horror movie. I can’t even look back at last year and all the planning and believe I actually came. It’s a blur. I don’t know how I got on the plane.
Everything I do reminds me of an occasion, place or person from home. Hundreds of times a day. Music makes me sad, photos make me sad, social media makes me sad. I’ve always been the sort of person who can compartmentalise my problems, and still get up every day and find something to enjoy, putting a face on through hard times and still functioning well at work and socially. But now I only function for the children and nothing brings me joy. I have deserted my parents when they need me most, I argue and fight with my husband in front of the children, I don’t earn a living and I am horrible to live with.

Consequently, we are having terrible marriage problems - I’m not playing ball and embracing life as he wants me to, and he says I am negative. He is the classic extrovert and I am a natural introvert but with extrovert ‘cover’ when needed - he thinks I should socialise more to get out of my rut, find a job (after a 24 year career in advertising, I can’t get work for logistical/childcare reasons, age and now probably recession), and is pissed off that I don’t want to hang out with his family all the time (I don’t particularly get on with them). In return I have been absolutely vile to live with, lashing out (not physically) because I blame and resent him for my situation. He is now talking about separation but has said I can’t take the children home so I would have to stay here with 50% access, spending half my time alone in a country I never wanted to live in. I don’t know if I love him, I can’t see the wood for the trees.
I know I am depressed, but what good are anti-depressants, I need a time machine.

If you got this far thank you! There is nothing anyone can do to help but writing it down maybe helped. Or maybe not. 3.30am and I'm done x

I guess the thing about sites like this, is people offer different opinions. He appears to want to make progress with the family, yes. The conflict is damaging their kids. She refuses to make any attempt to like anything about NZ. It would not be my choice, either, but the kids have been transported there, they had no say and now they have warring parents. Not good. He wants to talk about what each of them needs. He wants her to try to socialise a little. I'm sorry but he just does not sound like a monster to me. Not perfect, but neither of them sound like the easilest going or reasonable. So I stand by my contribution, yes.

I don't know whether Fizzy has actually read the thread. Drunken abusive rants, saying he wants to end things and lying about the family's financial position -- and your conclusion is that the OP needs to try harder? Blimey.

I agree with you @Fizzysours. I think mumsnet can be dangerous. It offers a very one sided opinion, based only on what the OP has said. There needs to be balance. The children are in the middle - and their best interests should be the absolute priority.

@Fizzysours I completely get what you are saying and, despite not wanting to come, my intention was never to cause this trouble. I obviously wanted it to work out. However, while I had predicted missing home and all that involves, I had not in my worst nightmares, imagined that NZ would be so awful and problematic for me. I couldn't have. I accept that it is not like this for everyone, and there are pros to living here, but not for me.
I could just give up and live for the kids (I have a friend here doing just that), but maybe I am too selfish, and surely they will realise this (the friend was told at parent's evening that he son told his teacher 'mummy cries a lot because she misses England and Portugal)? There is also the practical problem that if I spilt up with DH I cannot afford to live here.

Thankyou @RandomMess @Gutterton @justilou1 - I will play it very carefully and be on my best behaviour.
@AcrossthePond55 so fucking tempting

We were talking this morning and he was ok but wouldn't look me eye.

He said about the contract:
'I thought that I had a great idea – for you to say no'.
(My fault I didn't take him up on his great idea)

And about the birthday recordings when I told him that this is how he always behaves in drunken arguments:
'this is the first time I have done that, I react, I don't start things off'
(the previous 13 years of arguments have been my fault even though they follow the same pattern)

1. How do you know when this is the only time when your defence is that you were too drunk to remember and you are a self confessed binge drinker?
2. Bit of a co-incidence that the first time in 13 years it happens is the time I am recording....

When we were talking about me wanting to go home I asked him how he expected me to survive here on a minimum wage salary and not being entitled to benefits
Him 'put your name on a list'
Me 'what do you mean, what sort of list?'
Him 'all the South Africans come here and do it'
Me 'what are you talking about?'
Him 'for a house, or whatever'.

He's expecting me to move out of our $2m, five bed house with a pool (sorry - wanky but relevant in this case ), and move into a council flat (or whatever the equivalent is here). If he doesn't care about me, does he not realise his kids will be living there at least 50% of the time?

For all my bravado I'm just so sad and scared. For me and my babies.
He twists everything, yet blames me for twisting his words. Which I don't - I'm logical and use facts. He manipulates.
But he has ultimate control.
I'm so lonely.

Because this guy really does seem to want you to be happy in NZ.

@Fizzysours He brought OP over the other side of the world, now he's said he's splitting up with her! It's a long thread, but he's actually been quite horrible to the OP.

Yes, he's trying to pretend he's a decent guy now so he can pretend to acquaintances, professionals etc that he's amazing probably.

But he dumped her- and now he even lied to the kids in front of her and said she dumped him!

He gaslights and lies his arse off repeatedly, and is also verbally abusive and probably more.

I'm glad if lockdown has relaxed somewhat for you OP- I hope it means you can access more support and company. xxx

"For all my bravado I'm just so sad and scared. For me and my babies.
He twists everything, yet blames me for twisting his words. Which I don't - I'm logical and use facts. He manipulates.
But he has ultimate control.
I'm so lonely."

It's OK to be sad and scared. No one can be brave 24/7/365. No one.

The problem with 'truth twisters' vs 'fact dealers' is that our 'default' is that the other person is dealing in the same facts we are. It's just that we're interpreting those facts in a different way. But 'truth twisters' tweak the facts and lie by either adding or deleting words, altering facial expressions or tones of voice until it bears very little resemblance to the truth. And because we wouldn't do that we find it very hard to argue with someone who will. Plus, I've found them very 'fluid'. They'll often change their stance and osometimes end up arguing something very different than they started out with! My ex was unbelievably good at it! I always ended up thinking "There is something really wrong about what you're saying. But I just can't put my finger on exactly what it is!!".

Does he really have 'ultimate' control? I don't think so. He may have more control than you want him to have at the moment, but you still have 'ultimate' control. You have the final say in staying or leaving. You may not be able to solve the situation in the exact way you want to, but you will find a way out. I hope it's the way you want, but in the end you will not be stuck with him forever.

And you will not be lonely forever, either. Right now you're having to use all your energy to maintain your equilibrium and find your way out. But there will come a time when you DO have the energy to devote to developing a good solid friendship system. And if you're talking 'lonely' as in not being in a good relationship, there will be time to think about that later, too.

So true, thanks @AcrossthePond55

Fluid is a perfect description and here is a perfect example.

The 'leaving after lockdown' conversation.
The background is that when he came back after his two week hiatus on April 5th, he told me he was leaving. I asked if he could stay until lockdown ended as I couldn't manage the kids at home by myself.

Lockdown ended (went to level two) on 21 May and the kids went back to school on the following Monday. After he told the kids I threw him out, I sent him an article from the NZ Herald saying lockdown had ended on 21 May.

His response 'I meant er, when Covid ended, when everything went back to normal'.
What? When borders open? When we have a vaccine? Or just an effective treatment? Or will you decide as you go along?

You're right, I just can't win.
I have spent years trying to put my finger on it but it's only clicked now I have stopped reacting and being able to listen back to the recording.
And to claim it's a one off and all the previous 13 years of arguments are still my fault. What are the chances eh?

No, you can't win with a truth-twister because when you get close to exposing them, they move the goal posts. You have to take comfort that YOU know what the truth is, even if they refuse to acknowledge it. It took me a long time to get to the point where I really believed "I don't give a shit what spin you put on it, I know my truth and I will live by it". Once I got to that point it became very easy to tell him to GTFO. Although I was in a very different position to yours so I don't mean to imply in any way that it will be as easy for you as it was for me.

That's why his suggestion of a 'contract' is so effing ridiculous. As if he'd ever allow himself to be pinned down to what he said on a piece of paper. Don't make me laugh!! He'd make his part in it so vague he'd be able to change things to 'what he really meant when he said that' at will. Although he'd certainly hold YOU to the letter of everything you put in it based on his own interpretation.

Just keep moving forward even if it's baby steps. And remember 'the dog barks but the caravan passes on'. Your caravan is just getting started.

It just gets worse and worse...

You know the cold hard truth now - he doesn't care at all about your and DCs happiness he would have you in social housing living in poverty whilst he does what he wants...

He's expecting me to move out of our $2m, five bed house with a pool (sorry - wanky but relevant in this case ), and move into a council flat (or whatever the equivalent is here). If he doesn't care about me, does he not realise his kids will be living there at least 50% of the time?

Don't you think you would be happier in a council flat if it means you're rid of him?

I seriously think you need to record EVERY conversation.

“All the South Africans come here and do it?” you need to ask him what list and what he was talking about like it might have some merit and record this conversation for future purposes...
I am sure that this says it all...

@Isthisfinallyit
Yes at home but no, not here.
I wouldn’t be eligible anyway but he wouldn’t be bothered to research that.

@justilou1 yes, I will try to. I have to say, that had me lost for words.

He’s had a strop and gone home to mummy because I’m cooking the roast dinner I promised at lunch time now (evening) instead as DD was late coming home from her sleepover.

I’m so sorry that he’s just getting worse and worse and you’re so trapped. Why doesn’t he put his name down on this mysterious housing list? I’m not suggesting he would or he’d be eligible but it’s absurd that he’s tried to sell that to you as a solution.

I have just finished this thread. 2 things jump out at me, and I would like to offer advice on the first and just comment on the second.

1. for the love of all things holy, you need to STOP crying, STOP getting hysterical and STOP engaging negatively. Just stop it. Put on the greatest performance of your life of just being NICE to him. Your emotions are valid - you are entitled to them and you should feel them, but do NOT do it in front of him. You are pouring fuel onto the fire, and you are validating him at every turn. I have been there. It becomes “she’s hysterical, she’s crazy” blah blah blah maybe “she’s an unfit parent”. You do not want your screaming and swearing and making comments to your children about his drinking being noted down and corroborated by family, neighbours or even children. Also, you will feel in a much, much better head space if you take pride in just how NICE you can be, whilst planning underneath the service via lawyers and friends how you are going to leave. This way you also have more of a chance of getting him on side and blindsiding him. Gives you the advantage. Certainly stop sharing him what other people are saying about him. He doesn’t care! He doesn’t need to know and he won’t change. It’s all a huge, huge waste of mental energy for you and there are 0 upsides.

2. my family are all alcoholics. You do not want this around your children. I can’t really advise how to tie this into point 1 so it’s more of a “somewhere along the line” you will need to just be calm and clear that your children won’t be attending these events where people get shitfaced. Nor can your husband drink or return home so drunk. Again, no advice there just wanted to sympathise because alcohol is an incredibly damaging substance for people to be around. I experienced it as a child and have seen now I have children why I don’t want them around it.

You are doing incredibly well - stay strong 💪🏻

Couldn’t agree more with what the previous poster had just said. You need to become the master manipulator now. Get better at this game than they all are. You know him and should know how to anticipate what’s happening. Pull yourself out of the useless victim mode because nobody is going to jump in and rescue you simply because it’s not fair. (It isn’t, but honestly, if we break it down, you agreed to move there - you had been there before, you weren’t entirely flying blind, simply naive.) However... you need to strap on some ladyballs and prepare to fight for your kids and yourself. This means being smart, strategic and fucking sneaky.

The more often (and the longer) he's gone, the better. So let him go off in a strop. If he's at Mummy's at least he's gone and you'll have peace in the house.

If you're at all lucky & play your cards right maybe he'll decide he likes Mummy's better and just stay there. Perhaps there are ways to make him 'subtly uncomfortable' without raising suspicion? Not rows or 'scenes'. Just a subtle lack of regard for 'the way he wants things done' or whatever.

I think witchesandwizards has covered an awful lot of ground since she started this thread.

She has found herself in an intolerable situation, but she has listened, engaged and been open to suggestions from posters and then acted on what resonated for her and her family.

But she is still living in that intolerable situation, day to day, almost powerlessly, and it still haunts and dictates her future.

One could argue that it is even worse now as her DH’s previously unnoticed problematic drinking, has progressed at pace and taken its toll directly on her DCs, their family life and her marriage.

It’s almost like she found herself frantically bailing out a sinking ship and then turned around to notice that her DH is bailing water into it as fast as she is trying to keep them all afloat.

But she started with herself and saw a GP to settle her meno symptoms and her MH, she has now seen and understands the dynamics of an alcoholic family and is experiencing the impact this is having on her and her DCs which are the two key area to focus on. So she has her priorities right.

She has consulted lawyers and researched her legal options, all of which leave her and her DCs hugely compromised emotionally and financially. She will have to decide which path to go down, one of which may well be futile, and then she will have to learn to accept and then adapt to these emotional and financial compromises.

She didn’t see this coming and didn’t expect to be living her life like this.

She must be exhausted as she is still exposed to the source of her pain (her DH).

Maybe she needs a rest to regroup and take stock for this next chapter.

Maybe she needs him out of the house for a few months in order for her to restore balance and replenish her emotionally energy and mental clarity that he triggers, then erodes and drains.

I agree that a calm and peaceful home for her DCs always has to be the priority. Their world has been rocked by all of this and it is having a very negative impact - even if it is not visible on the surface yet. Every behaviour and all decisions should have this front of mind.

The toxic hostility has to stop - she needs to drop the rope and not engage in negativity but to be able to do this she might need him to leave to give them all space and she might need further emotional and medical support from her GP.

So much going on, she has made made significant progress but it’s a long journey.

Any negative engagement with her DH sets her back each time like a game of snakes and ladders - or stepping on a land mine.

Focusing first on her own health - healing, replenishing, rebalancing will give her the mindful resilience to emotionally detach from him, resist the negativity and restore and redirect her energy and thoughts to more productive behaviours.

Recording his conversations is a great idea. Unlikely to be used in court but will show others and him what he is truly like.

@MadeForThis

I am not actually sure that recording conversations is helpful. He won’t listen to them and think he has done anything wrong, and the risk of going down some sort of rabbit hole of obsessively recording and playing to people (who will listen initially to be polite but probably grow a bit weary of the analytics) is high. You don’t want to get bogged down in what he is saying and why etc. The bottom line is you are unhappy, and you feel trapped. The solution for that is something to find in practical ways and your own happiness (which you’ve taken a lot of huge steps towards already, which is incredible) - it’s not to obsess and analyse him and focus your time and energy on him. The nicer you are and the less you get riled up (his intention), the nicer he will probably be back and the less shit you will feel whilst trying to sort out the practicalities.

He is that narcissistic (and so is his family) that word of this kind of abuse and drunken loss of control is going to want to be suppressed. You would have great leverage. I would even consider buying some nanny cams.

The conversation recording is for useful background in any court proceeding, I believe.

And Witches has already started grey rocking this selfcentred arsehole.

Maybe I am wrong about the recordings; my experience is 23 years old, when my father used to carry a dictaphone around/tape them under the family car seats and in the house etc and wanted to use all the recordings/play them for anyone who would listen. They were not listened to in court and no one cared.

People like him often gas-light when they're pulled up on behaviour or things they've said. If all the recordings do is serve as memory-joggers or proof to Witches that he DID say what he said, then that's a good enough reason to keep recording them.

I have no idea what the laws are in NZ about recording someone. But recordings don't have to be used in court or listened to by third parties to still serve a purpose.