Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Just need to share - no solution

999 replies

Witchesandwizards · 11/04/2020 16:32

I met my kiwi husband 13 years ago in London, I am 48, he is 42 and we have two children, 10 and 7. We moved to NZ October 2019 against my wishes, but my husband always wanted to come back.

It was always an understanding that at some point we would move to NZ but this was decided before children, before my parents became frail and it kept getting put off as we built a successful and comfortable life in London with a close network of friends. I hoped that this would mean we didn’t have to move. By the time he decided we should move, I didn’t want to, but my husband held me to a ‘promise’ I had made 12 years earlier, and despite a lot of arguments, we set the wheels in motion and moved 6 months ago.

Immediately I felt homesick and suddenly realised that I had taken my life for granted, but emotionally I still felt in control and we threw ourselves into finding a house. And when we moved into that house, I looked forward to our container arriving and then it was Christmas. I spent 4 months either expecting things to improve or busy with the holidays. I still cried, we still had arguments, but nothing could prepare me for how I felt when the kids went back to school.

At the start of February it hit me like a ton of bricks that I have left most of my family and all my friends, my career, the home we renovated together, the city I love and my country of birth. It dawned that the rest of my life could be unhappy, living in a place I hate and don’t belong. At almost 50, I don’t really have much chance of building a life that is as fulfilling as my old one - I feel bereft and trapped. The best way I can describe it is that it feels like I’m in a coma and someone is trying to turn off my life support and however hard I try to yell, I can’t make them understand that I’m alive. I feel trapped in a nightmare - I have lost all control over my life. It’s a horror movie. I can’t even look back at last year and all the planning and believe I actually came. It’s a blur. I don’t know how I got on the plane.
Everything I do reminds me of an occasion, place or person from home. Hundreds of times a day. Music makes me sad, photos make me sad, social media makes me sad. I’ve always been the sort of person who can compartmentalise my problems, and still get up every day and find something to enjoy, putting a face on through hard times and still functioning well at work and socially. But now I only function for the children and nothing brings me joy. I have deserted my parents when they need me most, I argue and fight with my husband in front of the children, I don’t earn a living and I am horrible to live with.

Consequently, we are having terrible marriage problems - I’m not playing ball and embracing life as he wants me to, and he says I am negative. He is the classic extrovert and I am a natural introvert but with extrovert ‘cover’ when needed - he thinks I should socialise more to get out of my rut, find a job (after a 24 year career in advertising, I can’t get work for logistical/childcare reasons, age and now probably recession), and is pissed off that I don’t want to hang out with his family all the time (I don’t particularly get on with them). In return I have been absolutely vile to live with, lashing out (not physically) because I blame and resent him for my situation. He is now talking about separation but has said I can’t take the children home so I would have to stay here with 50% access, spending half my time alone in a country I never wanted to live in. I don’t know if I love him, I can’t see the wood for the trees.
I know I am depressed, but what good are anti-depressants, I need a time machine.

If you got this far thank you! There is nothing anyone can do to help but writing it down maybe helped. Or maybe not. 3.30am and I'm done x

OP posts:
TwistyHair · 02/06/2020 08:18

I don’t even know him and I’m shocked at how much he has changed since being there. From reading your previous descriptions of your life in the UK. Have you told him how unhappy the kids are? Would that help in any way? Your questioning of him is good, I think. Very factual and to the point.

Witchesandwizards · 02/06/2020 08:50

@Ticklyrain That sounds exactly the sort of thing I’m after - thanks so much, I’ll call them tomorrow. And also a great idea to get out and about - we definitely need things to look forward to now the good weather has gone so I’ll get my arse into gear. They are pretty resilient - DH left after dinner last night and it was only on the way to school that DS suddenly asked where he was - it helps that he’s been going to and fro. This evening he popped in for an hour and again, unfazed by him leaving.

@Gutterton
I think he may be a bit bored at work, but then again he can’t do the bit of the job he enjoyed as no one in hospitals want sales reps turning up at the moment. His old colleagues are in the same position - he’s still in contact as they supply his business here. I think he would have options at home....

The thing with asking him what the conditions are, is that if he can’t tell me what they are, then his whole argument is dead. Either it WAS all a lie, or he was so inept that he uprooted everything and destroyed our family with no long term plan.
As I’ve said before - if it was any other job he wouldn’t have taken this risk and would have discussed it with me. He discussed every annoying detail at home, down to not getting paid expenses for a cup of bloody coffee.

In England we would need less than half that once I got my ducks in a row (tenants leave and sell inn NZ) - as a family of four with no mortgage, our bills and food were £800 pcm. I would have enough money from my share of this sale to pay the mortgage off the rental and renovate it. And this is with a 50% share, not the 70% the lawyer thinks I will get.
The problem here, is that a half decent (and only half!) 3 bed is at least $1.4m / £700k and other living costs 2-3 times higher.

I feel I’ve got to where I can with my mental health without something changing - I was talking to a friend who revealed she has depression and she is doing lots to help herself and has been giving me tips, but to be honest they all seem a bit annoying because I can pinpoint the exact problem and know what the solution is - does this make sense? I’m exercising every day, eating better, writing my journal and I definitely feel less tearful. I’ve also got a night out with my friends on Saturday which I’m looking forward to.
No review yet but she did call last week to check I was ok x

OP posts:
ThumbWitchesAbroad · 02/06/2020 09:03

Yes, there is a bit of a difference between depression as an illness, and depression from a known cause (which you have). Sure, there might be some of the menopause thrown in there for added bonus Hmm but it doesn't appear to be the main reason - you KNOW what the main reason is and you won't be able to resolve your depression easily until you resolve the reason.

I agree with taking the holiday in July and think you should do that.

justilou1 · 02/06/2020 09:17

Very, very interesting situation to put him in.... but legally, does it also put you in a dodgy situation? (Not knowing what’s you were getting yourself into...)

Gutterton · 02/06/2020 09:54

I am not sure I see any constructive benefit in rowing with him about how you ended up here financially worse off having not done the due diligence up front. If you “win” that row and he agrees - you are still where you are - you haven’t achieved any solution. It could also be laid at your door that you did none of the due diligence either.

At the end of the day how you got there will have no bearing on how you get out of the mess. It’s like you are stuck in the middle of a fast flowing river and need to swim to the bank for safety. It doesn’t matter how you actually got there - by falling out of a boat, jumping from a bridge or dumped there by aliens. You still need to get to the other side.

You need to focus and prioritise your finite, limited and precious energy on getting to the other side - not getting distracted and depleted with futile battles that have no bearing on the outcome - and could cause you to drown.

All off the depression activities are keeping your head above water - this is v important even if they don’t relieve it 100% now - they are part of the solution.

Your financial and emotional options in NZ are much worse for all of you (including your DCs) than the UK in the short term. For you in the medium term they will deteriorate rapidly. I would speak again with the lawyers and draw up a battle plan. I would then I would engage with a neutral mediator so that over a period of a few months your DH hears your case in a calm way and agrees for the three of you to return to the UK.

Are you having any talking therapy?

Eddielzzard · 02/06/2020 14:10

Sounds to me like he's been screwed by this job too. I suspect he feels very conflicted about his family and the move, hence the drinking and lashing out.

Is there any scope for getting him onside so you all move back together? And then once you're back deal with what to do about your relationship? Could you get him to open up about how things are for him?

justilou1 · 05/06/2020 08:25

Do you have plans for the weekend, OP? I imagine he will be out reliving his student days...

dave112 · 05/06/2020 10:32

my thoughts exactly

Witchesandwizards · 06/06/2020 02:45

So things have progressed slightly weirdly.
The kids only really realised Wednesday night/Thursday morning that DH wasn't around, and DD asked him when he popped in on Thursday night why he wasn't staying. He immediately said that I asked him to move out. I don't think we should have had this conversation in front of the children but he didn't give me much choice so I replied that he told me he was moving out when lockdown finished (and it had two weeks before) and it was making me anxious not knowing what was going on and his random coming and going the weekend prior which is why asked him to leave.
Away from the children I also said that he had told me on no uncertain terms that he was leaving me to have fun.
He told me he hasn't mentioned leaving after lockdown, since he first returned from the beach house in early April (he has though - he told me his brother asked and he told him he was leaving when the kids go back to school), and that he doesn't remember the conversation on my birthday. Despite the fact I have a whole hour recorded of him repeating the same thing and I have spoken to him several times about what he said. And this kind of digs him into a hole - he's either the abusive 'water torturer' and an alcoholic who drinks so much he forgets his abuse , or he is did only love me because I looked after him and he bought me here to tell me that. And still the water torturer. Either explain a lot as he has been the same in arguments since we met and ultimately I am always blamed for my (over)reactions.

I sent him an edit of one of the recordings. One of the least nasty (legally useful) ones, and only a short section. He told me he couldn't finish it. Couldn't bear to hear his voice. But he did note I was talking over him so maybe he lost his train of thought! If he listened to what I was saying over him it was 'I know, you've already told me 5 or 6 times and every time you do it's like a daggar'. And if he listened to the end, he would hear himself say it for the 7th time. It was only 3 mins out of an hour.

He then sent me an email entitled 'Idea':

Lets put a contract together.

Call it a contract for us having a better life in New Zealand
What you want
What I want
What the kids want
What we want from the kids (behaviour wise etc)
We can put this all together with conditions which we all have to agree to and sign?

What do you think?
x

Haha. What's in it for me? Can he offer me my friends and family? A work/life balance? A vibrant city to live in? Independence? Freedom and peace of mind?
As if I would sign something - look what happened when I made a casual comment on our third date Hmm

And fuck me, the kid's behaviour is an issue for him? Why does he think they are misbehaving? DS had a nightmare the other day that me and DH were in bed having a physical fight (it's never happened) and I was screaming for DS to help me Sad

I'm going out for dinner with the school mums tonight and he is taking the kids out for dinner with the evil in-laws, then staying here.
I'm going to cook a roast for lunch tomorrow, try and be nice and try and have a civil conversation.

Looks like my flight is cancelled for July. The Seoul to London leg is running for now, but not Auckland to Seoul. There is talk of international borders not opening here until mid next year at the earliest Sad

OP posts:
Fizzysours · 06/06/2020 07:52

Am I the only poster that feels uneasy about this whole thread? Because this guy really does seem to want you to be happy in NZ. Ok that may be impossible but that is partly because you have completely decided to hate it. It was a huge decision. But you did make it OP.Perhaps misguidedly, perhaps with a huge amount of vagueness over the company ownership...but you are here, your kids are here, and you are determined to be unhappy. So, theyhaveZERO chance of settling into their new life. And they are getting royally dragged into your conflicts. They must feel utterly bereft and insecure. He, I am sure, is far from perfect, but he wants you to be happy in New Zealand, but you will never let him 'win'.

Witchesandwizards · 06/06/2020 08:08

I never wanted to come. I spent 2019 telling him I didn't want to come.
He told me he was coming anyway so I came. He told me it would be the making of us, it would be security for us.
I hate it - he is different here (I feel I did not arrive with the person I left with), I don't like the parochial nature of NZ, I miss my friends and I can't continue my 25 year career here and cannot afford to support myself. I have lost independence and freedom.
I have lost all the things that mattered to me to the extent that I am not me any more.

It's insult to injury that we have thousands of pounds less a month to boot.

OP posts:
tribpot · 06/06/2020 08:09

Permanently drunk.
Lied about the situation in NZ he was returning to, and blackmailed the OP into agreeing to move.
Smacked his son.
Told OP he was going to leave her because she didn't take care of him any more.
Tried to grope OP.
Broke lockdown several times.

I think if the DH wants OP to be happy in NZ, he's got a bit of work to do to demonstrate it. Giving up alcohol would seem like the bare minimum.

And incidentally Witches, is it worth countering that until he has a contract with his parents' business showing the timescales for him to assume 50% ownership as per his current 'verbal contract' with you, there's no point discussing this any further. Any piece of paper you sign with him is just another stick to beat you with.

A less provocative option would be to assume he wants a separation agreement, with co-parenting rules to be agreed within it.

Fizzysours · 06/06/2020 08:15

I totally get that. But you are there. Your kids are there. They definitely had no choice. Try to work with him, for your kids' happiness? They are living in a marital war zone. He wants to help you settle in by the looks of things. Give him an honest chance. You have become completely entrenched in victim role. He would be very likely to say you also have completely changed since arriving.

justilou1 · 06/06/2020 08:27

NARS Orgasm tinted lip oil... bloody useless. Pretty colour, but smeary and not especially hydrating. I have had better cheap lip stuff from the chemist. I have an Hourglass lipgloss in an almost duplicate colour... it stays on for donkey’s years!

justilou1 · 06/06/2020 08:28

Sorry! Wrong thread! 😩🤦🏼‍♀️😩

Fizzysours · 06/06/2020 08:32

@justilou1 Now I am trying to imagine what colour an orgasm would be 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Gutterton · 06/06/2020 08:43

I think that this is your most significant opportunity to date. It seems that you have smoked him out and he has nowhere to hide.

He is communicating in a grown up manner - the tone is constructive, considered and cooperative.

Every line is positive - except the assumption that NZ is the location.

I think that you should play this v carefully and slowly now. You want the exact same things - he knows the marriage is over and it looks like he wants to move forward respectfully.

This is a significant point where you are aligned and he wants to cooperate. I would now get the to the lawyers to discuss a strategy of carrot and stick for him giving you permission to return to the UK - and work this through professional mediation rather than courts. This might take many sessions but you have “moved” him to date and I believe that you can get the final shift that you need.

During this time I think it’s v important to keep a calm and peaceful home where everyone is treating each other with kindness and respect because as you can see this has already damaged your DCs significantly. This must be the first agreement you have with your DH. So I would respond positively to most of the points in his message - ignore the NZ part. You need him listening, positive and cooperative with the end goal of your DCs happiness in place.

You could get ahead of him with his comments about the kids “bad behaviour” - that is not what is going on - there is no “bad behaviour” - it is just them communicating to you both their turmoil indirectly (acting out) of the dreadful situation they find themselves in.

I would be looking to get psychological support for your DCs to alleviate the emotional damage done to date and to minimise any further.

Gutterton · 06/06/2020 08:52

Your approach could be that you want all four of you to return to the UK - to resume your happy family life and careers.

That NZ has been a failed experiment financially for the whole family, for the kids socially and for you all emotionally.

That you didn’t come here to shatter your marriage, the family and your children’s lives with a divorce.

You want him to consider you all returning to the UK. The ball then would firmly be in his court. His wife, children, family/marriage or his drunk mother and fake charade ego boost of owning a company.

He may agree. You may all return. It might all work out. It might not but at least 3 of you would be where you wanted to be geographically and all 4 of you close to each other if the marriage didn’t survive the return.

Lennie16 · 06/06/2020 09:07

You can only see the negatives at this times because you have slipped into a depression-try to be the mother you would like to be- let your children see a smile every time they look up- it sounds like you are suffering a bereavement in losing your previous life, your life isn’t over it’s just different. Give yourself time to try, keep trying and keep going you have lots of positive things and a family that need to be your focus.6 months after a bereavement you wouldn't expect to feel like everything is back to normal.
Appreciate your life, children, husband and accept it’s not as you want it but it’s what you have got, when the lockdown eases get a GP appt and some counselling - keep going !

Gutterton · 06/06/2020 09:08

Keep your powder dry until you have spoken with lawyers - they will map out a negotiation strategy and likely timescale. Don’t be impulsive.

RandomMess · 06/06/2020 09:17

I would write a list of all the things you want out of life and list for what you want for the kids out of life and list why it won't ever be possible in New Zealand.

For my DC not to be surrounded by a drinking culture

For my DC not to be expected to be exposed to cousins that bully them

For us to have the lifestyle we easily afforded in the UK

To have a satisfying career in x y or z that is not possible in NZ

Full knowledge of the business and how that will provide for all of us in the future - Insist I'm seeing xyz

For you to give up alcohol and go to AA

For you to not spend your free time socialising with your alcoholic family

Write a very very very long and detailed list, keep it to yourself for now.

Ask to see his???

RandomMess · 06/06/2020 09:18

For you to never hit our child again like you did to DS

Oh to have that signed in a contact by him...

justilou1 · 06/06/2020 12:01

For the kids and I to move back to the UK. You can give up drinking, commit to therapy, and be honest and admit that you have been lied to about the job here, and that life here in NZ is not what you were expecting and you can come too or continue drinking and stay here.

AcrossthePond55 · 06/06/2020 15:01

Lets put a contract together.
Let's don't, but whatever

Call it a contract for us having a better life in New Zealand
I don't want a 'better life' in NZ. My 'best life' is back home

What you want

You lied to me and I want to go home

What I want

You want to stay here and will lie to get your way

What the kids want
They want to go home, too

What we want from the kids (behaviour wise etc)

I want them to be happy (go home), you want them to stfu and stay here

We can put this all together with conditions which we all have to agree to and sign?
No

What do you think?
I think it's a stupid idea because the basis of our unhappiness is that the kids and I don't want to be in NZ

x

Not saying you should reply this way. But he's really being unrealistic in thinking that there is some simple solution to this.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 06/06/2020 16:55

@Fizzysours - I don't honestly know how you've drawn the conclusion you have from this thread, that Witches' husband "wants her to be happy". So far he appears to have made fuck all effort to make that happen, including threatening to leave her when lockdown ended - how the fuck does that equate to him honestly wanting to make her happy"?

He's not interested in her being happy, he's interested in him getting his own way and her knuckling under and getting on with it. Not the same thing at all.