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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Just need to share - no solution

999 replies

Witchesandwizards · 11/04/2020 16:32

I met my kiwi husband 13 years ago in London, I am 48, he is 42 and we have two children, 10 and 7. We moved to NZ October 2019 against my wishes, but my husband always wanted to come back.

It was always an understanding that at some point we would move to NZ but this was decided before children, before my parents became frail and it kept getting put off as we built a successful and comfortable life in London with a close network of friends. I hoped that this would mean we didn’t have to move. By the time he decided we should move, I didn’t want to, but my husband held me to a ‘promise’ I had made 12 years earlier, and despite a lot of arguments, we set the wheels in motion and moved 6 months ago.

Immediately I felt homesick and suddenly realised that I had taken my life for granted, but emotionally I still felt in control and we threw ourselves into finding a house. And when we moved into that house, I looked forward to our container arriving and then it was Christmas. I spent 4 months either expecting things to improve or busy with the holidays. I still cried, we still had arguments, but nothing could prepare me for how I felt when the kids went back to school.

At the start of February it hit me like a ton of bricks that I have left most of my family and all my friends, my career, the home we renovated together, the city I love and my country of birth. It dawned that the rest of my life could be unhappy, living in a place I hate and don’t belong. At almost 50, I don’t really have much chance of building a life that is as fulfilling as my old one - I feel bereft and trapped. The best way I can describe it is that it feels like I’m in a coma and someone is trying to turn off my life support and however hard I try to yell, I can’t make them understand that I’m alive. I feel trapped in a nightmare - I have lost all control over my life. It’s a horror movie. I can’t even look back at last year and all the planning and believe I actually came. It’s a blur. I don’t know how I got on the plane.
Everything I do reminds me of an occasion, place or person from home. Hundreds of times a day. Music makes me sad, photos make me sad, social media makes me sad. I’ve always been the sort of person who can compartmentalise my problems, and still get up every day and find something to enjoy, putting a face on through hard times and still functioning well at work and socially. But now I only function for the children and nothing brings me joy. I have deserted my parents when they need me most, I argue and fight with my husband in front of the children, I don’t earn a living and I am horrible to live with.

Consequently, we are having terrible marriage problems - I’m not playing ball and embracing life as he wants me to, and he says I am negative. He is the classic extrovert and I am a natural introvert but with extrovert ‘cover’ when needed - he thinks I should socialise more to get out of my rut, find a job (after a 24 year career in advertising, I can’t get work for logistical/childcare reasons, age and now probably recession), and is pissed off that I don’t want to hang out with his family all the time (I don’t particularly get on with them). In return I have been absolutely vile to live with, lashing out (not physically) because I blame and resent him for my situation. He is now talking about separation but has said I can’t take the children home so I would have to stay here with 50% access, spending half my time alone in a country I never wanted to live in. I don’t know if I love him, I can’t see the wood for the trees.
I know I am depressed, but what good are anti-depressants, I need a time machine.

If you got this far thank you! There is nothing anyone can do to help but writing it down maybe helped. Or maybe not. 3.30am and I'm done x

OP posts:
Eddielzzard · 25/05/2020 08:23

I've been lurking on your thread for a while. Two thoughts - I don't see that you have an option but to fight. Your situation is untenable, the sooner you get home the better. Even plotting gives you something to think about day to day and is the one positive thing to cling to.

Secondly, your DH has reverted back to his role in his family and he no longer sees you as family, but as an adversary. He knows what he's done, he feels terribly guilty about it, but there's NO WAY he'll own up to it because he'd have to deal with it then. And he wants to carry on being a child within his family which feels comfortable and familiar. It may occasionally dawn on him how fucked up it all is, and that's what makes him so angry. I suspect it isn't at all how he imagined it would be, and definitely didn't think things through. He was just desperate to go home and lied to get you to go too. Unforgiveable.

I have nothing useful to say, but I do want to wish you love and luck. You don't deserve this. Flowers

Witchesandwizards · 25/05/2020 08:42

The first is a barrister with 30 years experience.
He is also the one who was so touched by my predicament that contacted me on a holiday Monday and has been in constant email contact and we're had a call. All without charge.

The second is 'just' a senior solicitor.

@AcrossthePond55 TBH we can survive without maintenance but if he didn't pay then he would have trouble with an ex wife who wasn't helpful re visits. We've previously discussed meeting half way in July/August, he has a conference in Europe every October so could tag on some time n the UK and they could spend every Christmas with him. All that will need co-operation.

OP posts:
justilou1 · 25/05/2020 11:39

@EddieIzzard did a much more succinct job describing the fucked up workings of your husband’s messy psychology getting you to INZID and into the bowels of his very disfunctional family unit. (I would also research personality disorders and see if they tick a few boxes. I don’t know if we have enough info, but I suspect the pathology might be there. Definitely having addictions is an issue, but look at the power games, favouritism, scapegoating, etc. See if the shoes fit. Could also work for ammo.)

Scratchyback · 25/05/2020 12:12

Just wanted to say I’m shocked and sad at how you have become trapped out there in NZ and I really feel for you, op. I’m so hoping it all works out for you as you have been so awfully deceived and I hope you escape. Not much advice to add, but I very much relate to your predicament. Cheering you on from the sidelines and I’ll raise a glass to you when you get back to the Uk.

Gutterton · 25/05/2020 12:13

We've previously discussed meeting half way in July/August, he has a conference in Europe every October so could tag on some time n the UK and they could spend every Christmas with him. All that will need co-operation.

If you have discussed this then I think that you are much further along than you think. In what context and emotional state was this discussed?

Maybe any resistance from him has come in since your anger popped in Feb - maybe he is now just reacting to and punishing you for the immediate anger in his face rather than actually blocking what you want. Maybe your anger is about being betrayed emotionally and financially by him - even by yourself to some degree as he didn’t put a gun to your head - that you feel trapped and frustrated.

But if you have discussed these things then it’s on the table. Maybe your (understandable and justified) anger is not serving you well and is triggering him to block you.

Maybe if you continue to tap into the energy of your anger and redirect it to soothing and self care, looking at plans and options - but also being less intense, kinder and more cooperative with him in the short term he will soften and switch back to listening to you. He sounds like someone who wants an easy life - and shuts down cuts off in conflict. You might need to coax him back over a few weeks so that he will listen to you and your suggestions.

It sounds like you will have lost money in the move but you will just have to suck that up.

His enmeshed family system is important to consider - lots of stuff around alcohol, power, control (money, promises, engulfing mother) - it’s v interesting to read about then you can see the whole pantomime in front of your eyes - this allows you to know what’s likely to happen next (they all have roles, scripts and repeated cycles of issues/behaviour patterns) there will be a hierarchy set in stone over generations and v strong bonds keep these families systems going. You will never change it - you will a threat to it - they might well be happy to see you fade away - just don’t let them enmesh your DCs and mould them into one of them.

Continue to be clear with your actions that you and your DCs are different, separate and superior to this mess - you have bigger, brighter, wider, healthier aspirations and you are keeping them out of this unsafe mess.

Peridot1 · 25/05/2020 13:42

I’m really struggling with getting my head around NZ being so inflexible in a case where:

  • The children have been in NZ for a relatively short time
  • the OP appears to have been deceived as to be financial set up/job situation for her
  • the OP appears to have been deceived as to the situation with the family business and her DH’s role
  • the OP will struggle to support herself and her children if and when the DH dies as he has threatened and leaves her
  • the children’s lifestyle will therefore likely change hugely if the OP can’t support the children how they have been accustomed to living
  • the DH is drinking to excess and putting the children at risk (although I do realise that proof of this is hard to obtain)
  • the OP has little to no support both emotionally and financially in NZ if her DH leaves

Surely the courts must see the logic of her moving back to the UK. It’s not like a parent trying to move children who have been brought up in NZ for a substantial time.

Maybe write to Jacinda? She sounds eminently sensible!

AcrossthePond55 · 25/05/2020 16:23

@Witchesandwizards

I didn't realize you'd discussed with him the possibility of you and DC moving back home. Do you think he was taking you seriously or just paying lip service? Even if he did say OK, is his mum likely to stick her oar in and more importantly, will he do what she wants?

Is there any way to get papers drawn up allowing for relocation as a single issue in a pending divorce* then if you can get him to agree again, 'strike whilst the iron is hot', get his signature and get the hell out of Dodge? I know, that would take a LOT of finagling, a willingness to leave pretty much everything behind, AND having the money to buy last minute tickets.

*In my state (US) you can do that, it's called 'bifurcation'. You can move forward with what you agree on and hash out the rest later.

mamaoffourdc · 25/05/2020 18:13

I just want to say that New Zealand is an amazing place to bring up children, especially the North Shore, kiwis are fun loving and friendly. Some schools have a bad rep but that is the same for the uk. Not all men in NZ have this outlook on life and I would hate for anyone to believe this from just a thread.
However OP you should of reported him when he smacked your child - totally illegal in NZ.
I wish you the best x

Witchesandwizards · 25/05/2020 22:33

Re moving back, this was discussed way back in February but he has since back tracked.

@Peridot1 I know. I would never have imagined this could happen under these circumstances. And it makes me so frustrated - I spoke to another very close mutual friend yesterday who again, was shocked about the business because they recall DH telling them about ownership.

He literally said word for word “DP are going to give the business to me and DB, and DB is happy to share 50:50 with me even though he’s worked there for 20 years”.

I looked at the accounts that I pilfered and somehow BIL is a shareholder even though in the company register it has 90% ownership to the trust and 10% shares to ILs.

He just won’t discuss this because he has no answer.

I’m so frustrated.

OP posts:
Witchesandwizards · 25/05/2020 22:49

Both kids had a bad night last night. DD had two Mean Girls friends over and they (other 2, not DD) fell out with each other after half an hour leading to one storming home and the other texting her mum to pick her up and leaving DD in tears. This morning she said that this would never have happened at home.
Meanwhile DS was sobbing because he doesn’t have as many play dates or sleepovers as at home and he misses his friends. I try but people are always busy except for his best friend who is my closest friend’s DS.

We all had such a good social life.

Just messaged DH telling I’m not cooking for him any more. It used to be important to us and I took pride in cooking but I get no joy from cooking or eating any more so he can look after himself.

OP posts:
StartupRepair · 26/05/2020 01:09

Can you get to the point where you are calm and resolute, no longer trying to change him? Sit calmly down and say,
" well dh it seems we are ending the marriage. You have two options. 1) Fight in court with every aspect of the family business and drinking made public, or 2) I take DC to UK with regular visits. I have had advice from 2 lawyers. What do you think is best?"

justilou1 · 26/05/2020 08:32

I say work the friend angle (gently) by encouraging to keep in contact with their friends back home. Ask them questions about who they miss, what activities they would be doing, etc...
Keep the paperwork for court. You have been brought into the country under false pretenses.
You are effectively being held hostage by DH. You can’t work. It’s not viable.

Gutterton · 26/05/2020 09:53

Re moving back, this was discussed way back in February but he has since back tracked.

The timing would fit when your mood went pop. I think that he has closed down and is reacting solely to your anger - not specifically about actually allowing you and the DCs to return to the UK.

This is a massive opportunity.

Maybe your mood snap was less about being trapped and more about the realisation that YOU were now solely responsible for unpicking this sorry mess and breaking up your family and having your DCs live on the other side of the world from their Dad. That’s a massive decision - but it was (still is?) a possibility but it’s all on your shoulders. That would floor anyone. But I think that you have worked through this decision v well. You started getting your MH sorted, researching options etc. I think you now know that returning to the UK would not be catastrophic for your DCs but you have to be courageous and bold to do it.

To win this war you need to coax him back out of his retreat from anger - you need to soften him up so he can trust you to co parent. Someone like him doesn’t deal with conflict, anger and confrontation.

Set your mind to coming home, you are nearly there with all of the tools, planning and options. You just need to draw him gently and positively to negotiations. And you need a positive RS to make this work. He was open to it back in Feb (only 2-3months back) - you need to get him back to that headspace.

Gutterton · 26/05/2020 09:56

You have been deceived on this (maybe he was too) and and you have a right to be angry - but directing it at him won’t get you want you want. I do believe you can achieve this if you are EMOTIONALLY strategic.

MaybeDoctor · 26/05/2020 12:18

Just messaged DH telling I’m not cooking for him any more. It used to be important to us and I took pride in cooking but I get no joy from cooking or eating any more so he can look after himself.

Why on earth have you done this? And messaged him about it? This is like starting up a war on a second front...

Your very best chance of getting to go home is probably to get him to agree to it, probably using assets as a bargaining tool. Your second best chance is to separate as soon as you can, set up a new life and for him to lose interest and agree to it. Your third best chance is by the legal methods above. You need to be detaching and getting to the stage of being amicable negotiators, not provoking him with random messages.

TwistyHair · 26/05/2020 14:35

I really hope you can get home soon. That your ex (kind of) agrees to that. Maybe he’ll see that it’s in his best interests too in a way? That he can just get on with his family life and not have to have any stress at home. Do you think you’ll talk to him again at some point soon about this?

unlikelytobe · 26/05/2020 15:31

I think the longer you stay there the harder it will be to leave even if your DH does agree at a later date that you and the kids can come back to the UK. So, you probably are looking at a long term commitment to NZ and need to develop plans, friends, work etc as a single mum. I wish you luck with that.

I have British friends who went to live out there a few years ago with their young-ish DC and it was tough at first but they love it out there now. They are very outdoorsy but haven't taken to heavy drinking! They didn't move from London though and I think you are experiencing a particularly big cultural gap. The kids are now real kiwis even though they spent the first few years of their lives in the UK. They just wouldn't be happy coming back now. So, if you can make it happen, do it asap.

I loved it when I travelled around NZ and found Auckland and Wellington quite 'happening' but living somewhere is different. Do the expat forums offer any useful social life, support, advice?

Saturdaysnotforexercise · 26/05/2020 16:04

I have quite a bit of experience in both Auckland and London and in particular the cultural clash with different attitudes etc, but having read almost the whole thread I’m assuming there’s no way OP can be happy in NZ, and she needs to return ASAP

PicsInRed · 26/05/2020 16:59

Peridot1

The short answer is that NZ relies on immigration to offset outflows.

The long answer delves into the debate as to whether or not NZ is the best country in the world to raise children. I won't risk the total derailment of this thread by going into this at all, other than to say that the prevailing view in NZ is that it is - and the local courts also take that view.

Gutterton · 26/05/2020 17:03

The best place in the world to raise children is in a calm and peaceful home where everyone is treated with kindness and respect.

BlueTide · 26/05/2020 17:13

Also I’m pretty sure he’s reading this thread.
In the past he has been known to and admitted Surveilling my phone/emails. Because he was suspicious of me. He’s acting differently which he normally does when there’s something going on in his head.
So if you are reading this...
See, I am not mad for refusing to go with you to a foreign country, it is insane that you’d even consider it!

BlueTide · 26/05/2020 17:22

I’m so sorry I’ve written my comment on your thread by mistake OP. I’m in the situation of splitting up and stbxh trying you pressure me to live with dc to his country, I’m not going.

Saturdaysnotforexercise · 26/05/2020 17:56

@BlueTide I’ve read your thread and don’t blame you for mentioning it here as you must be beside yourself with worry. Hope your STBXH has got the message.

NZ is a great place to bring up children but so is the UK. Far more opportunities to travel in the UK too which broadens the mind - bbq on Pauanui beach isn’t quite the same.

PicsInRed · 26/05/2020 18:23

The best place in the world to raise children is in a calm and peaceful home where everyone is treated with kindness and respect.

Wholeheartedly agree.

Giraffe888 · 26/05/2020 19:53

I’ve no advice to offer but I’ve just read this whole thread and I just feel so sad for you. What an awful situation you are in. I truly hope you can work this out to get home with your children. You deserve to be happy x

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