Just need to share - no solution

[Witchesandwizards]

I met my kiwi husband 13 years ago in London, I am 48, he is 42 and we have two children, 10 and 7. We moved to NZ October 2019 against my wishes, but my husband always wanted to come back.

It was always an understanding that at some point we would move to NZ but this was decided before children, before my parents became frail and it kept getting put off as we built a successful and comfortable life in London with a close network of friends. I hoped that this would mean we didn’t have to move. By the time he decided we should move, I didn’t want to, but my husband held me to a ‘promise’ I had made 12 years earlier, and despite a lot of arguments, we set the wheels in motion and moved 6 months ago.

Immediately I felt homesick and suddenly realised that I had taken my life for granted, but emotionally I still felt in control and we threw ourselves into finding a house. And when we moved into that house, I looked forward to our container arriving and then it was Christmas. I spent 4 months either expecting things to improve or busy with the holidays. I still cried, we still had arguments, but nothing could prepare me for how I felt when the kids went back to school.

At the start of February it hit me like a ton of bricks that I have left most of my family and all my friends, my career, the home we renovated together, the city I love and my country of birth. It dawned that the rest of my life could be unhappy, living in a place I hate and don’t belong. At almost 50, I don’t really have much chance of building a life that is as fulfilling as my old one - I feel bereft and trapped. The best way I can describe it is that it feels like I’m in a coma and someone is trying to turn off my life support and however hard I try to yell, I can’t make them understand that I’m alive. I feel trapped in a nightmare - I have lost all control over my life. It’s a horror movie. I can’t even look back at last year and all the planning and believe I actually came. It’s a blur. I don’t know how I got on the plane.
Everything I do reminds me of an occasion, place or person from home. Hundreds of times a day. Music makes me sad, photos make me sad, social media makes me sad. I’ve always been the sort of person who can compartmentalise my problems, and still get up every day and find something to enjoy, putting a face on through hard times and still functioning well at work and socially. But now I only function for the children and nothing brings me joy. I have deserted my parents when they need me most, I argue and fight with my husband in front of the children, I don’t earn a living and I am horrible to live with.

Consequently, we are having terrible marriage problems - I’m not playing ball and embracing life as he wants me to, and he says I am negative. He is the classic extrovert and I am a natural introvert but with extrovert ‘cover’ when needed - he thinks I should socialise more to get out of my rut, find a job (after a 24 year career in advertising, I can’t get work for logistical/childcare reasons, age and now probably recession), and is pissed off that I don’t want to hang out with his family all the time (I don’t particularly get on with them). In return I have been absolutely vile to live with, lashing out (not physically) because I blame and resent him for my situation. He is now talking about separation but has said I can’t take the children home so I would have to stay here with 50% access, spending half my time alone in a country I never wanted to live in. I don’t know if I love him, I can’t see the wood for the trees.
I know I am depressed, but what good are anti-depressants, I need a time machine.

If you got this far thank you! There is nothing anyone can do to help but writing it down maybe helped. Or maybe not. 3.30am and I'm done x

*options

That’s how I feel - it’s gone from outrage at the unfairness of his career being more important and a personal preference not to ‘retrain’, to literally, how will I be able to survive as there are just no jobs?

Our £100 pw food bill in London is £200-250 here.

I am thinking of talking to these guys about what is happening. I really feel the need to log it somehow.

www.2shine.org.nz/get-help/helpline

And yes, I need to talk to him about the hopeful response from the lawyer, warn him if the cost/impact on the children, and see if he will come to an agreement outside this.

I also know that before we came, his brother was abusing his company credit card - he literally didn’t take another card out with him and all family expenditures went on it. DH stopped this when he joined but they definitely won’t want the type of forensic financial investigation that an acrimonious divorce will lead to and my lawyer mentioned. In Jan ‘21 there are legal changes to trusts as well and benefactors can request and have to be given full disclosure so m lawyer can ask DH and he can then either disclose or obstruct which will look bad.

I feel as if I am gaining ammo....

The new legislation “requires a basic level of reporting to adult beneficiaries and the parents/guardians of child beneficiaries”

Should be interesting as I am assuming all the grandchildren, including my kids are beneficiaries..

Speak to the lawyer first - ask them to draw up a strategy / game plan of how you communicate your intent to your DH - don’t show him your hand - it will just give him the opportunity to sabotage.

Do this through official legal channels.

I wonder if your DH will get disillusioned - sounds like there are dodgy financial practices - maybe not enough money in it to sustain 3 families? Would your DH consider returning to the UK for 5-10 years to educate the kids and then go back to NZ when he is 50ish - the family business sounds dull and amateurish compared to his London career - maybe he jumped too soon?

Do it... speak to them and get a strategy in place. The more ammo you have the better it is.

Do you actually love your husband and want to be with him?

I can just feel the pain in your post, I'm not sure on taking children back and the legality, but I lived overseas and it's hard yes fit the first 6 months.

But what you are describing isn't just normal settling in issues, it sounds like grief and I agree you shouldn't have to be medicated to stay in a life you don't want.

I do think for your own mental and physical health you need to move back.

@justkeepmovingon I loved him when we left. I think. It's hard to see the wood for the trees now.

But he is a different person than he was at home. He literally behaves and looks different so it feels like I'm living with a stranger which makes me feel more vulnerable than being alone. And there are the things I don't think I can get over - ignoring me for 2 weeks at the start of lockdown and my birthday night.

I realised today that even if he turned round, apologised and said that we can all go back to the UK together, I'm not sure I want to be with him any more.

But yes, it is more than settling in issues. I literally cannot stand it here and spend the whole day with my head down, looking at tarmac and pretending I'm not here (and you should see the phenomenal views). I carefully choreograph my day so I won't have time to think - café after school drop off, gym & swim, supermarket to buy bits for dinner and packed lunches (not buying ahead so I have something to do every day), an hour or so at home cooking/cleaning with a loud news podcast and then pick the kids up. Once they are home I am happier. But I can't live like this for the next 10 years.

I spoke to a friend who is going through depression. She is having counselling and has given me lots of tips and resources and tips but I know they will be no use to me - I can never be happy here. I'm jealous of her depression because she can work on it! Does that make sense?

WitchesandWizards
Are your parents aware how unhappy you are ?
Do you have siblings?
If so,are they aware of your unhappiness?

You say And yes, I need to talk to him about the hopeful response from the lawyer ...and see if he will come to an agreement outside this

Yes, absolutely. The best possible option for everyone is that you and he can make an agreement without resorting to expensive and damaging legal battles. Although he's been totally selfish and manipulative about the move up to now, do you think there's any chance that he would agree to allowing the kids to return to the UK with you if you set out a fair, legally contracted arrangement of visits and costs?

He must see that it's never going to work. He must know that he has mislead you about the finances and can't keep his promises about the business. He must also know deep down that the dcs would be better off with a happy you in the UK than a miserable shared arrangement in NZ. If he knows there are legal grounds where you could 'win' permission to take them back then just maybe he'll do a deal?

If you and the dcs moved back to London and he was to have them over to stay in NZ each UK summer holiday and every other Christmas (just as an example) is there any chance he'd see sense and agree without fighting?

I've just caught up with your thread, OP. I posted early on when things looked very bleak.

Although you're far from where you want to be, you are making excellent progress.
You have had some stellar advice and support on here and appear to have a legal team that knows what's what.
More importantly the way you're coming through on your posts now shows resolve and strength rather than despair and panic, which was obviously understable.

If you haven't yet thought to do so, please take the time to acknowledge what you have achieved so far in getting your shit together, as it were. It's no mean feat so well done.

I used a war metaphor before. Right now you're in the war cabinet room, coordinating the upcoming retaliation, planning when and how to strike. But strike you will, and we are all rooting for you.

I'm not familiar with your sector at all but is there any freelance work you could pick up through your contacts back in London? Even something minimal, to keep your name circulating in the right circles and your ear to the ground?

Have you had a look on Coursera and the like for online courses you could do to update your skillset in your field? (As opposed to totally retrain) Could also be a good networking opportunity as there will probably be others working in the industry without formal qualifications with whom you'll be in contact through the course forums. Would also keep you occupied.

You sound like a great person, OP, and for what it's worth I am full of admiration for how you're coping. Take care.

I think before you speak to him you need a firm plan worked out by you and the lawyer that is likely to be successful. If you start bouncing plans and offers off DH all you're doing is pre-loading him with ammo to counter-attack with no real reason to agree to any suggestion. You don't want (at this point) to try and find something he'll agree to, you want to find something he'll agree to 'or else'.

Confused about something you said up above....why would your parents have 'sponsor' you? Do you mean perhaps that they'd be guaranteeing you & DC a place to live until you got situated? You mentioned it in context of having a job. But I thought the 'job thing' was more to give a good reason for you to move home ("I have this wonderful job opportunity too good to pass up") as opposed to the usual sponsorship so someone doesn't end up on benefits. You're a UK citizen so it's not like Immigration can keep you out. Isn't it just having a good enough reason to be able to take the children with you?

@MrsDarcyIwish thank you. I feel stronger and that anger and determination has taken over from the original despair.

Unfortunately there are just no jobs - even at home I would have to rely heavily on contacts rather than formal approaches.

@AcrossthePond55 The job requirement is to show that I have the means to support them. Which is bonkers - as I mentioned, if I give notice to our tenants and get my (at least) 50% from our assets here, we can live mortgage free with about £100k ‘change’ and very low outgoings. But if this is indeed a prerequisite, I’m checking to see if my parents can act a guarantors instead.

I’m sat in the back of DH’s car as DD likes to go up front and I’ve just found the business’s full accounts for year ending April 2020.
Pilfered for my records.

I also suspect that as he is from such a severely disfunctional family, he has gone back to his familial habits (and I am in no way excusing this, please don’t think I am...). He is desperately unhappy that he has been misled about the family finances but fees powerless to admit to this. He is trapped there now. (*But would rather eat shit than admit this to you.) The favoritism towards brother dearest is never going to change, and will probably continue to escalate and your “D”H will be rescuing him financially, doing all the work at his own financial and experiential expense. Sun will continue to shine from hedonists arsehole and alcohol will continue to flow. He has always been the scapegoat of his family, and that is never going to change. Your DH will die a very angry, bitter old man. In the meantime, he will continue to lash out at the nearest scapegoat - you. If you are out of the picture, I suspect that will be your DD. This is a really toxic pattern for you all. I think getting counselling for the kids ASAP is a great place to start, before they integrate fully. Let them know how toxic the family set up is and let them express how dangerous their extended family is, etc... how much they miss from home, how much that is minimised by family, etc, etc...

Pilfered for my records. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

I see. I guess it makes sense for the courts to want to be sure that a 'returning' parent isn't taking the children to live in poverty. Do you have any contacts who would be able to give you a job of any kind? Even in a shop or small business?

I was wondering, is there any kind of treaty between the UK and NZ regarding child maintenance? If there isn't, then you can't really depend on it because I have a feeling that he'll stop paying if he realizes that no one is going to enforce it.

@justilou1 the thing is, he hasn't been misled - I think he has been aware all along that the company won't literally handed to him. I remember way back (years) when BIL and SIl had one of their Christmas blowouts, DH told me that SIL said she wouldn't touch the business if she could have the house. DH laughed because he said it wasn't BIL's to take. If they have been having problems like this for 5-6 years they are not suddenly going to expose it to her, and now me.
I just didn't realise the significance until now.
And they will never fall out as a family. I've always said he would save his mum from a fire before he rescued me...

I would estimate that there is at least $10m assets in the trust at the moment.

@AcrossthePond55 No one I can really ask, but I do thinks it's a totally unreasonable clause, especially if I can prove I can live mortgage/rent free. Not sure if there is a treaty but he would pay maintenance for the kids and if he paid that £800 pcm which is only half the amount of his pension payment, we would be fine until I got myself back on my feet.

@Witchesandwizards I finished reading your post and I'm in shock. You have got great advice from everyone and on your behalf I thank them. Please stay strong, keep your temper in check, bide your time and make plans. As hard as it is right now find comfort in some I read you're starting yoga or Pilates or some workout. You need an out for all this emotions going on, but you also have to try and live your life without being angry (I understand it is hard) but you have to thing along the lines of the 'serenity prayer' at least for now.

Sending you big virtual hugs and a lot of strength. You will get through this! Stay strong.x

but he would pay maintenance for the kids

Why are you so sure of this? Many men before him, nominally 'good' men, have stopped. Because they become convinced that it's more about punishing their ex-wife than it is about supporting their children. Or because someone convinces them that the money isn't being spent on the children because the ex 'gets manicures' or uses it to pay for groceries. I'm just saying once you get home, try to put yourself in a financial position where you can survive without it.

And yes, the 'jobs' requirement is stupid. As long as someone can show they have a secure residence and some source of immediate support (ie parents, settlement) until they get their feet on the ground that should be enough. Is it 'job' or just 'financial support' because I don't expect that they'd require someone with independent income/millions in assets to get a damn job! Or even the adult child of a zillionaire in your situation to 'get a job'. Do they even say how much someone is supposed to be earning or is it some nebulous 'job' out there somewhere. Stupid!

Could proof of income come from else where (other than a job) like a rental property? Could your parents lend you some to buy a flat to rent out (in the future)?

I would look at how much it would cost to take the relocation case to court, all the way to a final hearing. Is there a prospect that you could be hit with his costs as well as your own? How much might that cost altogether? Would you be wiped out by this?

Because, as a Kiwi, I must tell you that it is so, incredibly difficult to remove the children via the courts. It is almost unheard of for this to succeed. Think about the costs before you proceed, because, I'm so sorry, but it's very unlikely that the court would give permission to leave with the children. I think that the original legal opinion was the realistic one and this second one is excessively optimistic given the way these cases are dealt with in NZ.

You may have more success though the courts when the children are older, i.e. 14 and able to express their own opinions. You could then make a case to return 3 years before uni to qualify for resident uk uni fees. This is subject to legal advice, but I think it would be more likely to succeed.

I would still try to incentivise your ex to give permission to leave by filing for divorce and agreeing to give him more assets than he could otherwise expect. 💐💐

I moved away from my Family to live with my partner. It was only an hour away but I was incredibly homesick at first and it took me at least a year to settle down, and this was going back home to see family once a week. I can't imagine moving to the other side of the world and how hard that would be. But I guess you have to think about what's more important to you your husband and family or your friends and parents. It will get easier as you settle in and make friends. But I guess only you can decide what's more important.

@PicsInRed This is my fear and something that will be hard to stop once started. The first lawyer was more senior and my gut reaction says to trust him - he didn't give any hope. I think I can use the second lawyer's response as ammunition though. There is more that I haven't written here as it is more particular to my case but overall it's pretty positive. but like you say, against most other information.

@AcrossthePond55 If he didn't pay he would find it very difficult to see the kids.....

A friend has offered to give me a fake job and its in my industry, so perfectly plausible, but I'm erring on the side of a battle too big to fight with poor chance of the result I want.

FUCK.

@Witchesandwizards

I was thinking more if you moved back to the UK (about him stopping maintenance).

So one lawyer says 'no hope' and another says 'little bit of hope'. Sigh. It really sucks when you consult 2 professionals and get 2 different opinions!

I’d do it

Interesting I would be asking both for their estimate of chances of success and evidence of their specific achievement in such cases. One may be happy to take a hefty fee knowing that there is zero chance of success.

However my thoughts originally were not that you would undertake the whole costly process - more just to start it as a threat alongside a twin track DV/divorce proceedings which would work as a carrot and stick negotiating squeeze process that is settled early on. No idea if this is feasible or legitimate or if there are any pitfalls - might be high takes but worth a punt? Would expect the lawyers to advise.

However you would also need plan B running in parallel in case the returning to the UK part was unfeasible. I suppose that’s just the divorce part. Maybe there might be something in that settlement that he agrees to financial provision for the 3 of you to return to the UK every year for a few weeks for the next 5 years?

It’s a real shame with Corona because you would now be counting down the weeks in single digits to your original July flight. Things are opening up / maybe that might not be as delayed as you think?