Just need to share - no solution

[Witchesandwizards]

I met my kiwi husband 13 years ago in London, I am 48, he is 42 and we have two children, 10 and 7. We moved to NZ October 2019 against my wishes, but my husband always wanted to come back.

It was always an understanding that at some point we would move to NZ but this was decided before children, before my parents became frail and it kept getting put off as we built a successful and comfortable life in London with a close network of friends. I hoped that this would mean we didn’t have to move. By the time he decided we should move, I didn’t want to, but my husband held me to a ‘promise’ I had made 12 years earlier, and despite a lot of arguments, we set the wheels in motion and moved 6 months ago.

Immediately I felt homesick and suddenly realised that I had taken my life for granted, but emotionally I still felt in control and we threw ourselves into finding a house. And when we moved into that house, I looked forward to our container arriving and then it was Christmas. I spent 4 months either expecting things to improve or busy with the holidays. I still cried, we still had arguments, but nothing could prepare me for how I felt when the kids went back to school.

At the start of February it hit me like a ton of bricks that I have left most of my family and all my friends, my career, the home we renovated together, the city I love and my country of birth. It dawned that the rest of my life could be unhappy, living in a place I hate and don’t belong. At almost 50, I don’t really have much chance of building a life that is as fulfilling as my old one - I feel bereft and trapped. The best way I can describe it is that it feels like I’m in a coma and someone is trying to turn off my life support and however hard I try to yell, I can’t make them understand that I’m alive. I feel trapped in a nightmare - I have lost all control over my life. It’s a horror movie. I can’t even look back at last year and all the planning and believe I actually came. It’s a blur. I don’t know how I got on the plane.
Everything I do reminds me of an occasion, place or person from home. Hundreds of times a day. Music makes me sad, photos make me sad, social media makes me sad. I’ve always been the sort of person who can compartmentalise my problems, and still get up every day and find something to enjoy, putting a face on through hard times and still functioning well at work and socially. But now I only function for the children and nothing brings me joy. I have deserted my parents when they need me most, I argue and fight with my husband in front of the children, I don’t earn a living and I am horrible to live with.

Consequently, we are having terrible marriage problems - I’m not playing ball and embracing life as he wants me to, and he says I am negative. He is the classic extrovert and I am a natural introvert but with extrovert ‘cover’ when needed - he thinks I should socialise more to get out of my rut, find a job (after a 24 year career in advertising, I can’t get work for logistical/childcare reasons, age and now probably recession), and is pissed off that I don’t want to hang out with his family all the time (I don’t particularly get on with them). In return I have been absolutely vile to live with, lashing out (not physically) because I blame and resent him for my situation. He is now talking about separation but has said I can’t take the children home so I would have to stay here with 50% access, spending half my time alone in a country I never wanted to live in. I don’t know if I love him, I can’t see the wood for the trees.
I know I am depressed, but what good are anti-depressants, I need a time machine.

If you got this far thank you! There is nothing anyone can do to help but writing it down maybe helped. Or maybe not. 3.30am and I'm done x

I would not send him a drip feed of drinking record. Try to be breezy and detached while you get your strategy lined up.

You’re right.
Collate more ammo.

MIL was talking at lunch about her new car - 7 seater to carry all the grand kids.
Like hell.

Interestinger and Interestinger.... wonder what she’s planning, exactly?!?! You kids keep bringing up how her breath always stinks of alcohol. You should probably mention that you have stopped drinking “for your health” in front of them quite often.

Hi OP,

I don’t know if anyone else posted this, but consider sending your children to therapy. If you have to stay in NZ, it may aid them in coping. If you are intent on leaving, what they disclose in therapy about their home life may help you.

She thinks she’s having them in the holidays when (if) I go back back to work.
She has my niece and nephew a lot already.
Over my dead body.

I’ve been thinking about careers.
You know the job you realised too late you would like to do, and cost and time required would be too prohibitive, let alone the chance of actually getting paid employment at the end of studying or retraining?
Well mine would be investigative journalism. This won’t surprise DH - he knows it’s something I’d be interested in (that and being a PI ). So I’m going to order some journalism prospectuses. Get excited about my new career. Half bluffing - god knows how realistic this is as a career at my age - but best case I might get him to pay for a course. I don’t think any kiwis would be offended by me saying journalism in NZ is pretty lacking.

@winterlife that’s a good idea.
I now have my friendly GP who I’m sure would help.

Could you tip off the police about the drunk driving? I doubt this was a one off.

Calling police on all of them. Including BIL would really make things run not as smoothly.

Is NZ as hot on that sort of thing as the UK?

I think drink driving convictions will speak more than a 1000 of diary entries.

I wouldn’t feel safe leaving dc in the care of someone who can’t go a lunch without drinking and then has not a second thought getting into a car and driving, even 5 minutes

I'm home and fuming about all the little things.

MIL when I told her about DM cracking her head open when she fell on the balcony she told me 'tell her she'll have to give up drinking'.
Yet their neighbour who has the beach house behind them, and who I barely know told me she had been thinking of me and my parents and she is sad I don't know when I get to see them.

BIL has the same name as DS but we have never used it (for that very reason - wtf names their son after their dysfunctional, recent junkie twin? I had chosen DD's name and DH vetoed me on this), instead he has had a nickname from birth that everyone - teachers, doctors, friends, relatives - have used for 7.5 years. So today BIL is 'can I call you my name' and DS said yes so MIL started using it as well. And I'm quietly fuming.

MIL is so desperate for us all to visit her at the beach in winter that she has tasked DH with buying a pool table and darts board. She wants all her boys to play happy families.
It's nice for a few days in the summer, but very samey. In the winter the only thing to do is drink and eat. ILs have a separate apartment at the top, but the main bit sleeps 7 but only seats 3 on the sofa, has one loo and the beds are really old and uncomfortable. At the risk of sounding like a prima donna, there is just nothing there for me in bad weather but sleepless nights. The kids feel the same.

@Oliversmumsarmy It has crossed my mind several times. That would really be it then, so I have to think carefully - get my ducks in a row.

Why do you want to tell DH anything right now? What is it that YOU want to achieve long term?

It seems that you just have the urge to react and fight with him - but will not get you what you want.

Speak to your lawyer about emotional abuse, alcoholism, parental alienation and physical abuse of your DCs. Then do as they say about how documenting this to build a divorce and / or return to UK case - this might be where you negotiate your return and he agrees in light of the evidence. Maybe home your IJ skills to read up on all of these things.

DO NOT hand him your ammo in a moment of rage - otherwise he will hide everything - you don’t have enough evidence yet. Smile knowingly as HE plays into your hands each time - like he did when he goaded you - poker face - you need to win this game.

@Gutterton It's actually the opposite. The old me would stand up to him, but now he has my future in his hands and seems not to give a shit about my wellbeing, I'm wary and very happy to sit it out and wait and see what his next move is. After all, this week is the week he is supposed to be moving out....
I just wondered how I would prove it (short of calling the police) but I will just document and date.

That’s good. Keep panning back to see the whole picture.

Don’t concern yourself with HIS next move. Just be 100% clear on your options and overall direction. You might be better off with 6 months of proper evidence rather than blowing your cover and calling the police right now. Get legal advice.

Witchesandwizards

Would it be IT. Apart from the anonymous phone call why would anyone know it was you or just a random traffic stop.

It would start to put a kink in their nicely planned out lives that seem to be led without thought of the law.

The only person you should be showing any documentation to is your solicitor.

Why would you want to warn them of their wrong doings so they have a chance to put them right or hide evidence.

This fight isn’t about hurling accusations and flourishing proof over the kitchen sink which will get you no where or set you back so much you will never leave.

I know the urge to say I told you so and argue with dh is huge but this is about documentation and evidence gathering to win a court order.

Think of it like investigative journalism.

You don’t go to print until you have got every piece of evidence and then you don’t email the readers what you are about to write otherwise there would be no reason to buy the newspaper.

Stop arguing and showing every piece of proof you were lied to or how much of an alcoholic everyone is. It won’t get you what you want if what you want is to leave with the children.
If it is to spend the rest of your life in NZ bickering with your dh or at the beck and call of your MIL then go ahead and show him what you are doing.

Got it. You're both right.

It is enough to write everything down by hand in a diary?
I've just been noting what happened on the date that it happened.

I would keep a diary so I could present it as my feelings, rather than a litany of my husband’s behaviour. I’d want it to appear as if I did this for myself, not for a divorce judge.

Of course, it would be structured in the way id want that information presented.

Don’t write it by hand in a diary. He or someone else might find it. Keep it online password protected.

I’m not sure if I missed this - I know you have seen a lawyer who said you have no chance of leaving with the children but does the fact he lied to you and got you there under false pretences PLUS is now planning to leave you not change anything?

Yes, a handwritten diary is a disaster waiting to happen.

One or more of:

• He makes it disappear.

• He finds it and decides to selectively quote from it to his family
• He finds it, realises he can use it to see what you're planning, so carefully photographs it and puts it back so you have no idea it's being read.
• The children find it. God knows what happens then.

I think Winterlife is right to suggest making it look like an actual diary that merely happens to contain all the relevant information rather than an actual dossier of evidence you've been collecting. It depends how you will need to use it. You need advice from the solicitor and I think need to confirm with her that whether or not DH got you to NZ under false pretences and whether or not you can get the children out of NZ, if you do not have his permission to remove them from NZ you will be regarded as having kidnapped them. Just as would have been the case if he had brought them to NZ from the UK without your permission. You would want and expect the courts to return them and prosecute him in those circumstances, and the same will apply here. The lawyer you consulted was a barrister specialising in Hague Convention cases - her advice is not wrong.

@Ticklyrain yep, I meant Westmere 🤦‍♀️ - thank you for picking it up!

@Witchesandwizards - log it + talk to your solicitor, but don't dob them in to the police without having a good strategy to do so, as per solicitor. Otherwise it will come out that it was you, one way or another, and the fallout will make your life harder. I know it sounds awful, but you've got to be smart about this. You don't want provide any more easy ammunition for the emotional abuse. Remember, they don't think they are alcoholics, partly because they've normalised binge drinking to themselves, but also because their behaviour is sadly quite mainstream here :( I suspect even if they are randomly stopped by police, they'll still make it out that the cops are unfair 🤦‍♀️

@Witchesandwizards
When you write your online document do ensure your password is strong and hard to guess by those you want to keep out. One idea might be to have a short string of words making up, for example 12-15 characters (no spaces) but substituting an 'a' or 'e' with '@' or '&', having one or two capital letters and a string of numbers as well, eg: ending in '0004'. Also don't leave this document just on the hard drive of your computer. Get yourself a new "clean" email address with a completely new password and email the document that new email address each time you update it. When internet browsing do clear your history down immediately at the end of each session and/or use the Incognito browse function which shouldn't save your history. Good luck OP.

if you do not have his permission to remove them from NZ you will be regarded as having kidnapped them. Just as would have been the case if he had brought them to NZ from the UK without your permission. You would want and expect the courts to return them

This was my hypothetical question above. What happens if NZ have closed borders and Wizard could physically leave with the children against her dh’s wishes (not saying she should) but because NZ has closed its borders how would the children be physically made to return. It could be a year before the borders are open by which time they have made their life again in the UK

The Hague convention might say that children need to be returned but NZ atm wouldn’t be able to take them back

NZ citizens can still enter the country.

but because NZ has closed its borders how would the children be physically made to return.

Most of the 'closed borders' regulations allow for repatriation. That is, the return of citizens and others with the right to live in the country. I'd assume that would include children who were removed from their 'habitual residence'.

And I believe that 'habitual residence' (HR) is not changed if a child is wrongly moved to another country just because they are in the 'other country' for a length of time (ie 'hiding') or during a protracted court case. If OP took the children to the UK 'illegally' and her DH filed a court case, even if it took years to decide they could still be determined to be HR in NZ and returned. Likewise, if she took them and successfully 'hid' from him for years, they'd be considered HR in NZ if she were discovered. To do otherwise would be to encourage concealment or prolonging court battles with bogus motions to get HR to become the place to which the children were removed. That's a knife that can cut both ways.

There was a court case here not too long ago where a mum fled to Mexico and hid herself and the children from the father for years. She was ordered to return them and (I believe) is serving jail time now. Wish I could remember the names!

I see. I was wondering how things worked.

When they say closed borders they don’t mean really closed borders.

I was interested to know if Wizard had been in the UK because something had happened to one of her parents and they had shut the borders I had visions of her not being able to get back to her children.

If you keep it on a hard drive, bury it in a programme folder and save as a txt document with a number name, not a word doc.

In terms of keeping a diary - there have been many MNers who have used their posts on threads as an informal log of events should they be needed for future reference, all conveniently date stamped and timed.

Just don't ever let him know that MN is any more than a bunch of nattering women talking about celebrities, periods and loo brushes.