Just need to share - no solution

[Witchesandwizards]

I met my kiwi husband 13 years ago in London, I am 48, he is 42 and we have two children, 10 and 7. We moved to NZ October 2019 against my wishes, but my husband always wanted to come back.

It was always an understanding that at some point we would move to NZ but this was decided before children, before my parents became frail and it kept getting put off as we built a successful and comfortable life in London with a close network of friends. I hoped that this would mean we didn’t have to move. By the time he decided we should move, I didn’t want to, but my husband held me to a ‘promise’ I had made 12 years earlier, and despite a lot of arguments, we set the wheels in motion and moved 6 months ago.

Immediately I felt homesick and suddenly realised that I had taken my life for granted, but emotionally I still felt in control and we threw ourselves into finding a house. And when we moved into that house, I looked forward to our container arriving and then it was Christmas. I spent 4 months either expecting things to improve or busy with the holidays. I still cried, we still had arguments, but nothing could prepare me for how I felt when the kids went back to school.

At the start of February it hit me like a ton of bricks that I have left most of my family and all my friends, my career, the home we renovated together, the city I love and my country of birth. It dawned that the rest of my life could be unhappy, living in a place I hate and don’t belong. At almost 50, I don’t really have much chance of building a life that is as fulfilling as my old one - I feel bereft and trapped. The best way I can describe it is that it feels like I’m in a coma and someone is trying to turn off my life support and however hard I try to yell, I can’t make them understand that I’m alive. I feel trapped in a nightmare - I have lost all control over my life. It’s a horror movie. I can’t even look back at last year and all the planning and believe I actually came. It’s a blur. I don’t know how I got on the plane.
Everything I do reminds me of an occasion, place or person from home. Hundreds of times a day. Music makes me sad, photos make me sad, social media makes me sad. I’ve always been the sort of person who can compartmentalise my problems, and still get up every day and find something to enjoy, putting a face on through hard times and still functioning well at work and socially. But now I only function for the children and nothing brings me joy. I have deserted my parents when they need me most, I argue and fight with my husband in front of the children, I don’t earn a living and I am horrible to live with.

Consequently, we are having terrible marriage problems - I’m not playing ball and embracing life as he wants me to, and he says I am negative. He is the classic extrovert and I am a natural introvert but with extrovert ‘cover’ when needed - he thinks I should socialise more to get out of my rut, find a job (after a 24 year career in advertising, I can’t get work for logistical/childcare reasons, age and now probably recession), and is pissed off that I don’t want to hang out with his family all the time (I don’t particularly get on with them). In return I have been absolutely vile to live with, lashing out (not physically) because I blame and resent him for my situation. He is now talking about separation but has said I can’t take the children home so I would have to stay here with 50% access, spending half my time alone in a country I never wanted to live in. I don’t know if I love him, I can’t see the wood for the trees.
I know I am depressed, but what good are anti-depressants, I need a time machine.

If you got this far thank you! There is nothing anyone can do to help but writing it down maybe helped. Or maybe not. 3.30am and I'm done x

I some how need to go.

I was thinking of different scenarios today - if my parents were not alive could I stay, if my London friends scattered and that group didn't exist in the same way could I stay, if I got a job here could I stay?
And the answer is still a resounding no.
I hate it too much.
Moving has just made it clear to me what I do like and enjoy about life.

Money doesn't motivate him - his parents will bail him out of he needs money towards a new house if we separate etc.
He wants his 'family', fun and the kids.

So what happens if you report him hitting DS does that mean it's not suitable for DS to stay with him regardless if he lives at his parents or not?

he will inherit the business (sort of .. eventually

No he won’t.

He will inherit at the most part of a business.

I have seen this type of thing before.

The business was able to run 1 family very nicely. There was 1 wage and 1 company car and 1 beach house and 1 home and whatever else the parents had
When the parents die and leave it to the children (who all work in the business for a lesser amount). Suddenly the business needs to support 3 or 4 families and 3 or 4 better wages and 3-4 company cars 3-4 beach houses and 3-4 homes and it doesn’t. A few years pass where everyone is struggling then the business, no matter how successful it goes under.

Don’t bank on what you don’t have. Don’t bank on One Day

He wants his 'family', fun and the kids

He might have his family and fun but his dd is already seeing through the charade and if he is smacking your Ds how long before he sees what is really going on

Because of the government Covid subsidy I found out that the business is paying 7 salaries, including MIL, FIL, BIL, DH and two other staff members. They own the premises as well as another commercial property and the houses so there is quite a bit.
But ILs could go into care for years and need a good chunk, and Covid has proved, nothing is ever certain with businesses....

@Witchesandwizards you mentioned evidence about drinking I took photos off all my ex's empty bottles and used those for court. You could also keep a drink diary and the receipts. You're in-laws sound like rich bogans.

Witches The Matrimonial Property Act divides assets 50:50, regardless of input. With such significant family assets, I woud be very surprised if the ILS haven't set up a watertight Family Trust to protect the business and other properties. In such a case. they would not have to fund their own care, but would rely on the state. You will need to check your entitlements in case he has done a sharp move with the family home.

Yeah - sod the "deal". Focus exclusively on what legally relevant arguments will let you to home with the kids. It will come down to proving he is abusive and neglectful.

you need a lot of videos of alcohol bottles. Photos of red marks on DC if he ever hits them. Evidence of the police being called. All that stuff. I'm no expert but you have to read up on case law where the children have been allowed to be taken out of the country & see what level and burden of proof you need to achieve.
everything else is just feelings and fluff.

They own the premises as well as another commercial property and the houses so there is quite a bit

Which houses? Would that include the one you are living in?

I ask because I knew a family who ran a pretty successful business. Everything was owned by their business from every house they lived in to every teaspoon in the drawer. They were all very amicable. But the father died and the business started to slip then a couple of years later the mother died.

Unfortunately the father and mother had been the ones to run the business but never taught the children about the financial side of the company.

The business couldn’t sustain 4 business owners (instead of one MD and 4 salaries) who didn’t have a clue what they were doing

Within 3 years the business had been run into the ground and the families were lucky to walk away with their clothes. (Even the suitcases were owned by the business)

Add in family dynamics and drinking and I think no matter how successful a business is, it will struggle if there is no one person at the helm, or there is no one who knows what they are doing and a close eye isn’t kept on finances.

For all you paint of what this company your ils own he is considered a worker and not an owner and there is a huge difference between the two.
He will only ever own portion of the business and looking at the other “business” partners would anyone of them know what they were doing if they took over the business tomorrow?
Or is there one of the siblings who is being groomed as the next MD. In which case your dh will never get to be the one in charge.

Seriously... you tried. He broke the deal when he got you there and became a drunk, abusive jerk. What more could you do? Do what you can to get out as soon as possible.

I some how need to go.

This is very good @Witchesandwizards . You've thought of all possible staying scenarios and the answer is still a resounding no . So you now have a clear goal to work towards.

From now on put all your energies in to working towards that outcome in the best possible way. Despite lock down I'm wondering if you can:

• contact your former employer and friends. Tell them you're coming back and will be looking for work. Could they know of any consultancy work going in a few months?
• start the legal process of negotiating divorce and repatriation of the dcs. You obviously need to play this carefully with a SHL. My hunch is the faster you act the better on this to avoid the dcs becoming too settled in schools and friendship groups to want to move.
• start trying to negotiate a split calmly with your H. Of course at the moment there's enormous amounts of anger, bitterness, blame and regret but the end goal is that you return to the UK with a manageable agreement about the dcs. The shorter term goal has to be that life is bearable for you while you work towards this. You know your H best so what would be the best way to reach a compromise with him? (Face to face talking? Putting it in an email? Straight to lawyer's letter?)

However you go ahead, remember you are working on the next step of The Plan and if that involves sweet talking H and the drunken in-laws temporarily to reach a better deal then fair enough. Do what you need to do to survive and protect the dcs from harm and always keep that end goal in mind.

You're on your way, woman - go for it!

I understand completely that you want to go home. I would too. But you've already spoken to one solicitor who seems to be stating baldly that you can't take the kids unless he agrees. Even if he were to agree I have a feeling his mother wouldn't.

Do you think it would be worth getting a second legal opinion? You indicated that the one you're speaking to now is very knowledgeable about Hague, but you never know what 'angle' (legal, of course) there might be to be played. Also, I don't think it would hurt to consult with a solicitor in the UK about fighting the battle from there. You may be told there'd be no battle to fight because of Hague, but at least you'd know.

Would you be willing to leave with nothing but the kids? Would he let them go in exchange for keeping 100% of the marital assets? If you're serious about getting home, it may be time to think about your 'worst case scenario'.

You have come such a long way since the start of this thread you really are an amazing lady

Hey OP, I've just read your full thread over the last couple of days and your transformation is amazing, especially in light of increasingly worse picture of your ?STBXH? from one post to the next. Well done and keep it up!

I don't know if any of this is going to be helpful, so take what you need and ignore the rest.

I came to Auckland as a teen from another country/busy city. I hated it for years. I hated the focus on sports, almost at exclusion of all else. I hated the drinking culture, which starts at school for some and at uni for most. I still hate the shitty housing. Where you are in Auckland influences a lot of your experience though. It's weird for such a small city to be so compartmentalised - I'm guessing it's because it's so vast despite the small population. Of course there are good and bad elements everywhere, where you are in Auckland is particularly toxic: combination of money, no culture (although lots of pretence), normalised binge-drinking and dysfunction masquerading behind material bling. There will be exceptions and my apologies to them (and you) by being so generalising, but your husband's comment you mentioned much earlier in the thread about local women being click-ey and materialistic is coming from the same place, describing the local "set" if you like.

I would not live where you are if someone paid me to, frankly.

It took me about 10-15 years to find "my people" - mind you that was largely pre-internet, so it might not take so long now. But they do exist and they are mostly concentrated in Auckland and Wellington. If you end up being stuck here, I would urge you to move somewhere else in Auckland, I think you'll actually be able to breathe.

What helped me the most is my work and my friendships that I have built over the years. It helps that DH is also a migrant like me, albeit from a different country. Ironically we both have jobs that we enjoy that would be too tricky to relocate to either of our former home countries, and knowing how long it takes to set up, I'm not keen to migrate elsewhere again, now with kids. Originally we emigrated here as children with our parents, for different reasons, and at slightly different points in time. They enjoy their lifestyle in the peripheral suburbs, we find it absolutely suffocating. Pre covid, we'd travel to Europe once a year and the thought of not being able to do that is grim. We are also lucky we can afford to do so, but I think deep inside we always worked very hard precisely to be able to afford to do that.

We are 'weirdos' by your husband's family standards most likely. Luckily, I'm surrounded by like-minded weirdos, many foreign-born, but also many kiwis who also don't fit in the mainstream. And you know what, being a weirdo in the mainstream is a compliment frankly!

I get what you're saying. If you have a way out to get back to "your" people and environment, fight for it with every skill you possess. Leave no stone unturned. If, after all that, you discover that you cannot go back, please move to a more multicultural part of town that doesn't require a car for every sneeze, where your kids can get to school and after school activities on foot or public transport and where you can function.

I have to agree with AcrossthePond55 , Witchesandwizards. I don't think a return to the UK is a realistic goal. I understand how desperately you want it to be possible, but there is clearly no way your DH or his mother are going to agree to let the children go. Literally the only way you could achieve this is to leave them behind.

I do think it would be more practical to take a leaf out of anticon 's book and start looking for 'your people'. By all means seek a second legal opinion as AcrossThePond suggests, but no-one on the thread with experience of the NZ legal system has contradicted it.

I don't know how you do it, but I think making peace with the situation you are in will be more helpful than trying to concoct a scheme under which DH accepts that he has breached the terms of that non-binding agreement entered into on Date 3 and agrees to you and the children returning to the UK.

The most important thing to realise is that he is not your friend or support. Very hard to do but try not to seek emotional support or apologies from him. It will drain your energy. View him as a awkward flat mate that you have the strength to work around.

@anticon Thank you for such a detailed response - as I've said before, it helps me so much when people get how I feel because they have also had similar experiences emigrating or because they know EXACTLY what I'm up against. I never in a million years expected to find living in a city so logistically different. I only heard 'live on the Shore work on the Shore' after I arrived.
And you are right about finding 'my people'. I would rather not see anyone than hang out with people who make me feel even worse.
It's only as I have got to know them well enough to get to know their stories, that it's clicked that none of the group of friends I have made here are Aucklanders, let a lone from the North shore. One is English, my closest friend here grew up in Fiji, two spent extended periods and had children in the UK, the others are kiwi but not Aucklanders and all share the same frustrations as me.

Where do you think would be good to look at? I like Ponsonby and a lot of agencies are based there, but expensive and still a little close the ILs in Northcote Point!
This is part of the problem - I know nothing. I feel a bit like Crocodile Dundee
Oh and I'm so gutted about travel. I saw an article today headed 'We might be back to international travel sooner than predicted'.
Then the subhead said next summer rather than 2023

Thanks @macaroniandpizza I'm trying. I think I'm in the anger stage of grief....

@AcrossthePond55 I'm definitely going to use everything I have got and I still think I can walk away with something but offer him a better financial deal.

It still astounds me that he can look at the state I'm in and still be nasty. So yes, @StartupRepair - we are very awkward flatmates!!

x

Oh and the dinner for FIL didn't take place tonight - we are an awkward 11 people now BIL is home, not allowed at home or in restaurants. I did wonder why DH kept asking me if I wanted to come..... Instead we are driving to the beach house to surprise MIL, FIL and LA BIL tomorrow.
I'm going to be with DC.

I'd pick areas on basis of schools + likely hobbies/after school things for DC. Knowing what I know now, if they can walk to school when younger (primary/intermediate), I'd be ok with them using public transport when older (high school). Also a lot of high schools have their own after school activities and even bus services that cater for different schools, so it will be easier.

You're right, Ponsonby is expensive but vibrant - it also has historical protection on a lot of its housing stock, as do many inner city suburbs - read damp cold drafty villas etc (but maybe that doesn't bother you, I shouldn't assume ). If you think it's good for you location-wise, go for a walk there on different days of the week/time of day (maps can mislead: you think something is close but it's actually two massive hills away and your dcs balk at the idea of walking there, ever!, or vice versa - something can look like a huge long walk, but actually there is a connecting pathway google doesn't know); work out transport options, check schools and zones, how many big roads do your kids need to cross? Are there suitable crossings? Is there a supermarket nearby to pop into after work quickly? If there is a train line, it's usually better than just buses. Trademe Property is a good way to figure out your preferred locations in terms of connections vs money. If there is no pressure for you to own property, aim to rent rather than buy until you get your bearings. It will take 3-4 years at least, imho. There are some tricky issues with buying if you're unfamiliar (leaky buildings, historical overlay, body corporate in apartment buildings, etc).

All public (here that means state) schools have strict zones, and in the metropolitan Auckland area it's usually very difficult to get in out of zone, even when the out of zone school is a more obvious choice from transport point of view sometimes.

Areas will depend on what you prioritise, but around Ponsonby: Freemans Bay? Grey Lynn / Waterview - nice but need a car more. Other inner city areas: Kingsland/ Morningside/city end of Sandringham - cheaper, but patchy - make sure you scope out a lot on foot. Avoid streets near Eden Park stadium. Mt Eden has some really lovely areas. Newmarket/ Inner end of Remuera can be nice (?apartment?)+ there is a rail connection (being expanded towards K'Rd / Newton, which is close to Ponsonby).
Epsom schools push the property prices up hugely, but in all honesty most of the inner suburb schools are actually fine. They are big enough for the kids to find their niche and they tend to have families from different cultures and backgrounds so it's easier to fit in.

Lastly, I wouldn't worry about distance from ILs - the bridge traffic is your friend here, you'll only have weekends to worry about

A thought - does your MIL actually care about your children, or is she more fussed about her son? Obviously you all had to come with him when he returned to NZ, but would she actually be bothered if you took the kids back to the UK?
People are assuming she would, and she would fight to keep them in NZ - but so long as her son stays in NZ, would she actually care if your kids stayed or not?

Worth finding that out, I feel. I doubt that your H would ever leave NZ again - but if he's left with the option of you leaving him with the kids, or you taking them and them only coming out for holidays, I bet he would prefer you to take them.

However, he might still refuse because it's easier to deal with a miserable wife (soon to be ex wife in his opinion) than the situation with his children being the other side of the world.

Hard to know until you try, I guess. Which you can't until international movement is an option.

I know legally you can’t just get on a plane and leave with the children but given the times we are living in. If you did manage to get out of NZ how would it work if the children couldn’t actually be returned to NZ for another year or so because of the borders being shut?

Would they then be in a position that they were settled in school and with family in the UK

@anticon Thank you. I’m surreptitiously TradeMe-ing in the journey to hell. When the kids are back next week I’ll go on some recce trips as I need to go that way to pick up clothes etc for the kids. Yes, I need warm and dry - well aware of leaky homes and houses made of card!
There are quite a few new build town houses. We would probably need to buy - the lawyer reckons I’ll come out with about $1.2m and my parents can help me out so I could probably live mortgage / rent free which will help massively.

@ThumbWitchesAbroad She will want whatever makes her baby happy.
I have to play the long game I think, as tempting as it is throw my toys out of the pram. I need to be co-operative but distant. Not get involved but not put a foot wrong.

@Oliversmumsarmy that is a possibility. We all have the ability to come into both countries despite CV19, but I will definitely leave as soon as my flight is available, whatever the consequences are coming back.
I have a friend who can put us up in London - my parents are in W Sussex in the coast.

We’re on our way down and just checked the (only) local restaurant that DH is planning on taking us all to fit the surprise lunch. It’s closed, takeaways only from 4pm.
DS will be starving from 12.30 and he’s the fussiest kid.. ILs don’t know we are coming so could have plans anyway.
DH is going to miss his bossy (organised) wife.....

Anticon’s post is excellent and has lots of good advice. I grew up in Auckland (English parents) and can only imagine how hard an adjustment London to Castor Bay would be, even without a douchebag alcoholic husband. I wouldn’t live there if someone gave me a free house!

Re areas, all of anticons suggestions are good. There really isn’t much in Waterview though - no real shops and schooling can be patchy/problematic. She may have meant Westmere, which is lovely.

Point Chevalier could be another good option- its close to the other suggestions and is where everyone in Grey Lynn goes when they have kids and can’t quite afford Grey Lynn anymore . It has plenty of cafes/shops, a beach and good schools. It’s close to the motorway and there is public transport up to Ponsonby, which is a short drive. The high school there has quite a creative focus if your kids aren’t sporty.

Re schools, the NZ version of Ofsted is ERO (education review office). If you google ERO plus school name it’ll give you some insights.

You are doing so well and have come a long way in a short space of time. I have been where you are and it’s so hard, I understand you just want to go home. For me, finding my tribe, having a favourite cafe/pub/walk etc was instrumental to waiting out the time I was stuck. If you can be somewhere that is a bit more ‘you’ it’ll be easier to wait out a bit of time and plan your next move.

Hopefully the beach isn’t too crap!

Wow, @ticklyrain, thanks so much.
Fabulous insight and useful tips.
I’m not on my own going mad in Castor Bay!
It’s going to give me something to do now the kids are going back. As much as I want them to be back at school, I’m scared about being on my own during the day again.
Although I can get back to gym and swim.

Ah, the lunch.
Found a restaurant and MIL, BIL and DH polished off two bottles of Prosecco in an hour and a half then DH and MIL drove back. Only 5 minutes. But still.
I didn’t know what to do. Doesn’t feel the right time to cause a scene.
Noted in my diary.
Maybe send DH an email tonight documenting?