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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Just need to share - no solution

999 replies

Witchesandwizards · 11/04/2020 16:32

I met my kiwi husband 13 years ago in London, I am 48, he is 42 and we have two children, 10 and 7. We moved to NZ October 2019 against my wishes, but my husband always wanted to come back.

It was always an understanding that at some point we would move to NZ but this was decided before children, before my parents became frail and it kept getting put off as we built a successful and comfortable life in London with a close network of friends. I hoped that this would mean we didn’t have to move. By the time he decided we should move, I didn’t want to, but my husband held me to a ‘promise’ I had made 12 years earlier, and despite a lot of arguments, we set the wheels in motion and moved 6 months ago.

Immediately I felt homesick and suddenly realised that I had taken my life for granted, but emotionally I still felt in control and we threw ourselves into finding a house. And when we moved into that house, I looked forward to our container arriving and then it was Christmas. I spent 4 months either expecting things to improve or busy with the holidays. I still cried, we still had arguments, but nothing could prepare me for how I felt when the kids went back to school.

At the start of February it hit me like a ton of bricks that I have left most of my family and all my friends, my career, the home we renovated together, the city I love and my country of birth. It dawned that the rest of my life could be unhappy, living in a place I hate and don’t belong. At almost 50, I don’t really have much chance of building a life that is as fulfilling as my old one - I feel bereft and trapped. The best way I can describe it is that it feels like I’m in a coma and someone is trying to turn off my life support and however hard I try to yell, I can’t make them understand that I’m alive. I feel trapped in a nightmare - I have lost all control over my life. It’s a horror movie. I can’t even look back at last year and all the planning and believe I actually came. It’s a blur. I don’t know how I got on the plane.
Everything I do reminds me of an occasion, place or person from home. Hundreds of times a day. Music makes me sad, photos make me sad, social media makes me sad. I’ve always been the sort of person who can compartmentalise my problems, and still get up every day and find something to enjoy, putting a face on through hard times and still functioning well at work and socially. But now I only function for the children and nothing brings me joy. I have deserted my parents when they need me most, I argue and fight with my husband in front of the children, I don’t earn a living and I am horrible to live with.

Consequently, we are having terrible marriage problems - I’m not playing ball and embracing life as he wants me to, and he says I am negative. He is the classic extrovert and I am a natural introvert but with extrovert ‘cover’ when needed - he thinks I should socialise more to get out of my rut, find a job (after a 24 year career in advertising, I can’t get work for logistical/childcare reasons, age and now probably recession), and is pissed off that I don’t want to hang out with his family all the time (I don’t particularly get on with them). In return I have been absolutely vile to live with, lashing out (not physically) because I blame and resent him for my situation. He is now talking about separation but has said I can’t take the children home so I would have to stay here with 50% access, spending half my time alone in a country I never wanted to live in. I don’t know if I love him, I can’t see the wood for the trees.
I know I am depressed, but what good are anti-depressants, I need a time machine.

If you got this far thank you! There is nothing anyone can do to help but writing it down maybe helped. Or maybe not. 3.30am and I'm done x

OP posts:
Gutterton · 13/05/2020 09:17

That is really nasty, abusive, malicious and threatening behaviour - and probably illegal. Constantly groping without consent is sexual assault, videoing you without permission is illegal and threatening to send on to friends is emotional threats and blackmail. I would be looking quite forensically through NZ DV laws.

justilou1 · 13/05/2020 10:47

You need a copy of that video. You need to send it to all your mutual friends.

Gutterton · 13/05/2020 10:56

You need to send it to all your mutual friends.

No you really don’t.

Those are the actions of an unhinged, vengeful person with zero respect for her friendships as well as herself. Speak to DV service / police / lawyer / GP - any professional capacity for support.

You have the emotional capacity to behave with dignity and not be triggered into such antics that will back fire spectacularly in your face.

Witchesandwizards · 13/05/2020 11:12

DD has had a terrible time.
The second she started school she was swept up by a group of girls who had a vacancy for a friend. Turns out that was because another girl had realised what hard work they were and left the group. They are the alpha females of the year - pretty, sporty, entitled and mean.
It took less than a month before they fell out with her - they don't like her having other friends at school or from home. I found out she was hiding all her stuff from her friends at home (noticeboard, best friend cushion, photos) when they came round. At home she was friends with everyone - being an afterschool club kid she had friends in all years, and all her friends from nursery were boys so she had a healthy mix of boy and girl friends. It would never occur to her that you couldn't be friends with someone.
They then make up and a couple of weeks later the whole thing happens again. They were ok at the start of lockdown but have fallen out recently and now she's dreading going back.
School know (the girl who left them is the daughter of the vice principal) and they split them up so she's not in their class this year, but she doesn't have any other friends.
It's hard, it's a large, 5 class entry school in a wealthy area, and there are quite a lot of arseholes, kids and parents!!!!

We were warned by her old head that it was a tough age to join a new school, and she's pretty, sporty, kind and has a cool accent so has put noses out of joint.

And yes, another thing to worry about.
NZ has a bit of a reputation for bullying, including in the workplace.

OP posts:
Witchesandwizards · 13/05/2020 11:16

That is really nasty, abusive, malicious and threatening behaviour - and probably illegal. Constantly groping without consent is sexual assault, videoing you without permission is illegal and threatening to send on to friends is emotional threats and blackmail. I would be looking quite forensically through NZ DV laws.

I have it all recorded - and even though it's only a voice recording it's obvious what is happening. I also have him confirming the 40 odd units he's drunk.
I have it for if and when I need it.

OP posts:
Witchesandwizards · 13/05/2020 11:19

You need a copy of that video. You need to send it to all your mutual friends.

It's awful - me sobbing and asking him why he is doing this now, why not tell me he didn't love me before we left the UK and his stupid mummy's boy claim that I've stopped looking after him.
I knew he wouldn't send it - it makes him look terrible.

I actually asked for it the following day and he said he had deleted it.
What he can't delete is my recording of him telling me he's videoing me and that he's going to forward it.

OP posts:
AcrossthePond55 · 13/05/2020 13:21

Is the drunken SiL you just posted about the same one you were thinking of trying to get 'on side'? No. Just no. Never confide in a person who drinks to excess like that, they can never keep their traps shut.

Considering how vile their cousin is to them and the drunken adults around, do the DC even want to go to the beach house? Because I would make it clear to them that it was their choice whether or not to go. I know I wouldn't have wanted to go as a child under those circumstance. I wouldn't sit them down and make a 'thing' of not having to go if they've not said anything, but if they raised the issue themselves I'd certainly say "Well you don't have to go if you really don't want to".

And I agree about parental alienation. Where I live (US) it's considered child abuse and is grounds for getting parental access revoked. Check with your solicitor.

Gutterton · 13/05/2020 14:32

100% agree not to confide in an emotionally dis regulated alcoholic - especially one who you now know has spewed malicious poison about you and your DCs into the ears of her own young DCs. This is such a deeply enmeshed toxic system - you need to see this and withdraw back from and build your own emotional shark cages for you and your DCs. (Saw that phraseology on here the other day and think it’s pretty apt for life in general).

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 13/05/2020 16:14

How many SILs do you have, @Witchesandwizards? And which is which?

tribpot · 13/05/2020 16:59

I think there's the wife of OP's brother, who actually sounds like quite a good match for OP's DH - that one is abusing and isolating OP's brother. She asked OP's parents for 15K to tide them over through lockdown and then went mental when it was a loan and not a gift. That is Evil SIL.

Then over in New Zealand is Drunk SIL, married to OP's DH's brother. I had misunderstood and thought Drunk SIL was trying to get sober but in fact is being policed by her own parents through the use of video cameras in her house, which she somehow thinks will help her get sober in this horrendously toxic and alcoholic environment. Spoiler alert: it isn't working.

OP's DH compared her to Evil SIL (even though I would argue he's the one behaving the way she does), although it sounds like Drunk SIL may also not be a fan either, given the comment from BIL about not believing what she says about how 'everything has been ruined' since OP's family arrived in NZ.

deepwatersolo · 13/05/2020 19:01

Just revisited this thread - I am sorry things with your husband have developed like this, OP. What an immature boy-man, incapable of supporting his partner when down and even kind of offended that she doesn‘t ‚function‘ as she always has. And all that enabled by his family. Their relationship to alcohol does not sound healthy. Nobody can compete with that - either you go along with the lifestyle (which is Self-destructive) or you are out... no way to win this.

Wish you strength, OP. Ironically, you sound better and more in tune with yourself than you did when this thread started. Good for you!

Witchesandwizards · 13/05/2020 20:37

Yes, two SIL I have mentioned.
Narcissistic SIL in the UK (I also have a lovely, normal one there!)
Drunk one here. I never meant to confide in her as in share legal stuff or my plans. More of a someone to talk to on Saturday as it’s going to be the most awkward night. I haven’t seen LA BIL for 4 years. And DH has told his family everything inc depression and menopause.
I suspect her problems have a lot to do with BIL. He is also a ‘charmer’ and in the group of their friends (the ones DH is hanging out with), she also has a bit of a reputation of being ‘difficult’ and doesn’t see them often. They was a lot what seemed like fake concern when we first arrived when I saw them at parties she wouldn’t go to. A bit ‘how/where/what is up with SIL?’ wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Of course I didn’t get this at the time, fresh of the plane, but with hindsight I see it.
But no, cards close to my chest.
She may be able to tell me stuff but I won’t share.

OP posts:
Witchesandwizards · 13/05/2020 20:46

@deepwatersolo Thank you
Yes, at the moment I’m being spurred on by anger, not just sadness and despair.
I’m predicting a bit of a dip next week when the kids go back to school though. Except for no school, my lockdown life doesn’t look much different from my other life (except for the fucking in-laws!) and I’m envious of people looking forward to it.

I always knew there was a problem with alcohol but it was hard to see just how bad when I only saw them at Christmas or when they visited us and were on holiday.

I’m the opposite. Can totally take or leave it and will only ever drink when I am happy and there is a reason to do so - out with friends or a celebration. I drank quite a lot (for me) when I first arrived but stopped after Christmas at the beach when I saw the carnage.
No, the kids don’t particularly like it there.

OP posts:
SophieB100 · 13/05/2020 21:24

Your last few messages have done nothing but reinforce to me that you need to get out of this relationship as soon as it is safe. And, I mentioned this before, but I strongly feel you need to go low contact with DH's family - I wouldn't entertain my kids being in their company at all. Yes, he will always be their dad, and his family will always be around. But this isn't the sort of family they should be with more than absolutely necessary, especially as it appears that you are in the eye of the storm here.
My 3 kids were teenagers when I had my breakup - it affected them profoundly - as adults two have limited contact with their dad, and my youngest has hardly any at all. They all chose this, and I always stayed neutral and never badmouthed him to them. They saw what he was, and as they became adults, they reflected and realised much more. Truth will out OP. Please don't drag your kids into your battles - and don't subject them to this toxic family unless you absolutely have to. You might think they're coping - but in years to come, when it's too late, you might realise that they didn't cope that well at all.
I wish you well - I understand - it will get better. But you have to start cutting ties - and keeping them cut right now. Personally I'd have let him sleep in sheets full of cat shite - but you're probably a nicer person than me...Wink

Witchesandwizards · 13/05/2020 22:10

It’s very difficult and one of my main reasons for considering to stay with DH is that the most probable outcome if we split is that he will live with his parents for the two years until we divorce which means his share of the custody will be spent there.
And even when he got his own place, they would be his support.

I would never be able to prove the alcohol thing beyond ‘I say, they say’. They are middle class, respected, highly functioning. Successful business people, MIL only just retired at 69. SIL even manages to hold down a $300k pa job.
It would be foreign, aggrieved wife against them.

It even effects me working as MIL would be out after school care. It’s just not happening.

OP posts:
justilou1 · 14/05/2020 01:03

In NZ and Aus, police are far less averse to pulling people over for ransoms breath tests if you suspect they have been drinking. If your children complain that they are left in the care of inebriated adults while you (consistently) remain sober, this adds fuel to your fire to return home.

Witchesandwizards · 14/05/2020 03:03

They are very big on it over here and I believe the limit is lower as well.
I need to keep an eye. MIL is not too bad now we have Uber but the others definitely do the ‘it’s just round the corner thing’.
And the kids are onto the whole alcohol thing since Christmas and the friend who died.

This has reminded me of another family anecdote.

A few years ago LA BIL was back for a few months and every time he got pulled over (at least 2 DUIs and other stuff) he gave DH’s details as he was in the UK.
The more I write the more mental they are.

OP posts:
popsydoodle4444 · 14/05/2020 03:23

@Witchesandwizards

Hi,

I can't believe I'm saying this especially as Mumsnet hates MLM but you're an intelligent woman with many years experience in advertising;you need a job you can start right now and don't want a long commute and childcare issues.The Bodyshop at Home is booming right now and offers a generous compensation plan.Track down your nearest decent manager and join them.It'll be a good way of meeting new people and getting out of the house when this is over and you can start earning some money and you'll have something just for you.

justilou1 · 14/05/2020 03:29

BodyShopat home isn’t really a viable job in Aus and NZ as they are in every shopping mall and there are shopping malls pretty much everywhere. We’re also coming out of lockdown, and shops are opening up. (B-shop is open in Aus again.) I think working on the more lucrative field is smart even if it is the longer game. For now that gives OP to keep an eye and line up her ducks. Also to observe the kids and take note.

Witchesandwizards · 14/05/2020 04:07

The more I think about it, the more determined I am to go home.

First of all, this isn’t about money, it’s definitely emotion. But the financial details are facts, thus easier to use to use objectively.

He made me come as part of a ‘deal‘ made when we first met and discussed again 6 years ago when we bought our last house. However, he failed to tell me at any point that we would be so much worse off, and that I would have to retrain if I wanted money. I didn’t sign up for this and even if I loved NZ, the financial side would be a problem. Remember, we are about £4000 pcm down in real terms.

He may say he didn’t know but would he have made the move without the pertinent info if the job had not been with his family?

He could have asked his brother about cost of living and confirmed the business details (assuming he didn’t already know).
He knew my role would not really transfer over here, and that the whole industry is in trouble. We talked about selling our rental and my ‘job‘ would be to buy and run an Airbnb - basically pocket money in a country with such high property and running costs. Not once did he mention that I would need a ‘proper job’. In fact, he talked about moving for ‘security’.
Laughable when we had a joint income of about £125k and a mortgage free house in London. I don’t want to sound like a boastful wanker, but I’m so angry.

OP posts:
REignbow · 14/05/2020 05:12

@Witchesandwizards

I’m so sorry. He really has been deceitful and not given any thought and consider to your needs at all.

You’ve said that you won’t be able to take the children back, would he willingly let you?

Witchesandwizards · 14/05/2020 06:14

@REignbow
That’s the moral argument I’m going to use.
Take away everything emotional and he hadn’t kept his side of the deal he was so hot on. I have to stick to something I said on our third date, but he has reneged on the claims he was making until the day we left...

OP posts:
tribpot · 14/05/2020 06:46

I can understand the temptation to get dragged in to a quasi-legal discussion about 'the terms of the deal were x, y, z' - especially when that is the ludicrous argument that he used to get you over to NZ in the first place. So he told you/you agreed on your third date for god's sake. That was clearly 'non-binding' and not even relevant so many years later.

But once you start down that line you are locked into it, and he will keep coming back to the central point that you always agreed to this, he will inherit the business (sort of .. eventually) and in any case no-one could have predicted the coronavirus so all bets are off. He is clearly highly manipulative and he will turn this against you. You are not going to win a moral argument with him - what's in it for him to let you do so? He's got what he wants now and MIL has got what she wants.

I can't think what leverage you could possibly use to get him to agree to the kids returning to the UK. I don't believe MIL will ever agree to that any more than he will. Clearly you can ask, and the kids can ask, but why would he agree? Just because it's what's best for them (which it certainly sounds as if it would be) is not going to cut any ice with him because what he is interested in is what's best for him.

SophieB100 · 14/05/2020 09:29

I agree with @tribpot - he'll tie you up in knots if you go down the 'deal' route. The big 'deal' here, and what should motivate you and is the only relevant issue right now, is his abusive behaviour.

Take small steps OP, separate in NZ - put this into action and start to plan. Then divorce. Then decide about where to live. You might find that actually NZ has a lot of opportunities - but you are so immersed in this awful situation, you can't really see beyond it.

Remember that a break up after a long time together with kids involved hurts like hell regardless of where you live, and fleeing home might be tempting but could cause a lot of extra pain and complications. It doesn't hurt as much as what you're experiencing now though, I can guarantee that.

By mentioning this 'deal' you are validating it and it clouds the real issue here, which is his treatment of you and kids. Detach mentally (from his family too), then detach physically as soon as you can.

Right now he's playing games - so simply leave the game.
I wish you well.

Gutterton · 14/05/2020 09:44

I agree that rowing with him about the details of the move deal to prove him wrong is likely to backfire as he will just dig his heels in to prove himself right - and he will emotionally get off on watching you tie yourself in knots and spinning yourself into a frenzy. Don’t give him that.

I would think long and hard about how to approach him for him to agree to you returning to the UK with the kids. Could you present it as a temporary situation to support your parents?

Somewhere up thread I think you said it was mentioned.

What will make him think he is winning?

I am also interested in the fact that you brought a significant property asset to the marriage - is it correct that this is classed as exclusively “yours” to the date of the marriage and only it’s increase in value post marriage is shared?

I am wondering if you could cut a deal with him? Is he much worse off financially divorcing you in NZ - could you make him a better offer to let you go?

What motivates him?