can't bear his attitude to my job

[ladidadido]

Married 11yrs, 2 DC 10 and 8. To save on drip feeding DC 1 was a surprise when DH and I had not be dating long. DH was not my knight in shining armour, but we decided to make the best of it. I'm from a very religious background, so that had a bearing. Marriage has been good some of the time, middling some of the time and awful some of the time.

I earn about £60k working part time (70%), DH earns just under 10 x my salary and works mostly 12 hour days M-F. Since DC were born my career has taken a huge back seat. First I went part time and then I went freelance. My working pattern (which involves working evenings and weekends) made family life difficult because DH didn't know where the children clothes lived and couldn't manage beans on toast struggled to manage small DC alone. We outsource almost everything - cleaner 2 days a week, gardener to cut the grass and hedges, and nanny on the days I'm at work. DH doesn't want to spend his down time doing chores and doesn't want me doing that either . (Having said that since the lockdown we have split the cleaning 50:50 on a Saturday and cracked through it in a couple of hours.) DH is currently working form home(so not commuting 2 hours/day). This involves me trying to keep the children quiet, homeschooling, keeping the house going, going in to do my own job 3 days a week and trying to keep on top of all the additional coronavirus stuff that need to know for my job(which is in addition to the 3 days I have to be actually at work). I have NO time for the latter- in fact I've been really struggling for about 2 years to keep on top of my job at all. This morning we have just had another argument about how he almost never does anything I ask hime to do and that impacts my job as I don't have time to do any of the non client facing stuff at home. He says he values my job. I think he only values it if it doesn't impact his life in any way. Today it started because I'd asked him several times to do something (non essential, but the kids have been going on for days about having it fixed, and it will occupy their time in lockdown) in the garden. He hasn't done it. I did it yesterday evening and then was joking with him about how once again 'his' job becomes mine and he became really angry and says that he didn't have any time to do the job and where do I think he should find the time from(he was off sat, sun and Monday). My response was my usual "where do you think I find time from?" I have never had an answer from him for that question. He always blames his job - he's just too busy to do anything he doesn't want to do. Then he suggests (again) that he gives up work so I can work full time and he can do all the things I think he should be doing. Financially we could do this. BUT, there is no way DH could run a house. I'd end up working full time AND doing all the stuff I currently do plus a whole heap more as we couldn't afford paid help. Then he said 'most of the stuff doesn't need doing anyway'. So not only does he think my job isn't important, but nothing I do in the house is worth doing either. I am so fed up with this attitude. Anything he doesn't feel like doing or doesn't notice becomes my job.I'll ask him to do stuff and he'll say he is going to do it, but several weeks later it still isn't done, I've reminded him several times and I just end up doing it. He regularly tells me that my stuff is always lying around the house. When he says 'my' stuff he means anything that isn't directly his. So all the kids stuff is 'my' stuff - uniform, books, sports equipment etc...its all 'mine' to sort and put away , the large box of grass seed that arrived a week ago and is still sitting in the hallway whilst I hope that he might ask where it needs to go and move it....thats 'mine' because I ordered it, and I will use it to cover the bare patches of lawn where he has been playing football with DC, and in his world the patches don't need covering with grass anyway. I see the grass seed as 'family' stuff, therefore he has an equal responsibility to put it away (and use it, but he is never going to use it, so I'd settle for putting it away). The pile of stuff that sits on the table - mostly kids books/drawings is 'mine' and therefore he doesn't touch it. The hose pipe that lies in a heap across the patio - I think it actually annoys him, but not sufficiently to do anything about it, so the only time it will get rolled up is once I've ordered a hose reel and wound it on myself or drilled the wall mounted one we have to the wall. I'd love to do my job better, but the only time I have to myself is once the DC have gone to bed at 8pm, by which time just want to collapse in a heap, not start working.
Before all the LTBs pop up......
1.He does work long days.How much should he be doing around the house when he is out for 12 hours and usually logs in the evening for another 2...atm is saving 2 hours commuting daily, and I do appreciate that perhaps my expectation of what he should do whilst WFH is possibly deluded and unfair. Am I being too fussy expecting him to do things like put the grass seed away or facilitate the hose not lying all over the patio?
2.he puts the bins out 😂, puts the laundry away, clears up at least 2/3 of the stuff after dinner every night (i cook), helps with or independently does bedtimes most days, makes a mean Saturday brunch.
3.He sets up and maintains EVERYTHING techie in the house (we wouldn't even have a TV if it was down to me)
4.He plays a lot of football with DC......and can even manage to pump the football up when it goes flat (although couldn't find the pump last week....because its 'mine').
5.He would happily pay for a part time house keeper to pick up all the shit he can't be bothered to, and is more than happy for me to get people in to do any job.....but the emphasis is on me. I have to get the people in. He doesn't do it.

Now he is having the inevitable post argument passive aggressive silent sulk. We argue about this at least once a fortnight atm.

Thoughts MNers?

There is such a huge amount of prejudice on this thread just because the OP is well off.
Suck it up because you are rich attitude.
Like women of all types and incomes OP is being treated as a lesser being because she is a woman and rail roaded into a subordinate housemaid role and her job doesn't matter.
In any other post it would bring LTB posts.
Misogyny is not OK no matter what part of society you come from or how rich you are. It is never OK.
OP is a woman who has needs too and should not just be dismissed. I've been treated like this by both husbands and I chucked the bastards out. I'd rather live alone.

Op isnt being treated as a lesser woman or railroad into a subordinate role.

He is happy to pay for the work she wants doing to be done. She works part time, so yes she would be doing more of the work around the house. That only makes sense.

He does quite a bit for the hours he works, regardless of wage. Op also says they currently split housework 50:50 and blitz at the weekend.

Op has put herself in a subordinate role. She wants to do these jobs herself, but then actually wants him to do half of them.

Look at the grass seed. She ordered it. But wants him to do it. He is happy to get a gardener to do it. Op isnt happy with that.

I wouldnt have dp telling me what jobs I must do around the home, because he think its must be done. Especially if I was more than happy to pay someone else to do it.

He isnt making her do the jobs. He just isnt allowing her to create jobs and pass them to him.

I think there are two issues here:

-OP’s self-esteem/thinking patterns. OP, there is a type of therapy called Schema Therapy which helps with recurring patterns of behaviour and thinking. Get a book called Reinventing Your Life and see what you think - consider seeing a schema therapist. You need to learn to value yourself more.

• Communication. Your marriage sounds quite good to me actually, especially the division of labour given the income disparity. Do you ever get time just to sit down and spend time together in a relaxed way and communicate? Sounds like you need to prioritise this.

I suggest when lockdown is over you get a housekeeper. You would be giving someone useful and valuable employment. Accept the fact that you’ll be organising it and use that to make sure you get someone you really like - not someone who’s going to trigger your inferiority complex.

I’m much less well off than you but DH earns 5x what I do and I understand some of what you’re saying. I think the getting married because you were pregnant issue is a red herring - sounds like you both value each other and want the relationship to succeed. That’s key. Throw some money at helping yourself and learning to value yourself. Good luck and ignore the sour grapers

@ladidadido I’m not surprised you got a bit flamed for this post, mostly because you brought money into it. It highlights how relationships (all relationships, not just marriages) are transactional in nature. Sometimes I’ll talk to a friend whose marriage is breaking down, certain that in her shoes I would leave, but my own marriage is not perfect (it is more than ok though, and wonderful at times), but I’m willing to put up with more because I like living in a nice house and not really worrying about money.

I think you’re doing too much, but also that he’s doing enough. So yes, the answer is outsourcing more of the things you argue about to find more harmony. Or the other answer is to work less yourself and find more time to do the household stuff. You have plenty of money and don’t seem to be being financially abused, so it is an option that’s worth considering. I sometimes think of giving up work, I don’t think I ever will, but it is an option that should be considered.

I am really struggling with having the whole family under one roof and a complete cut to the household support, and trying to wfh. I can only manage to wfh in the snippets when DH isn’t (small children), and while he is willing to accommodate my work, his has to come first. It’s what pays our bills, and is more precarious right now because of covid.

I too struggle with guilt about our wealth. Most people think having money solves all the problems, and it does, but it also stirs up issues with guilt, self worth, boredom sometimes. It can also make you feel insecure. Right now I would say that you need to use the wealth to restore balance, whatever that might look like. When two people are working hard, and also trying to do all the house stuff it can leave little time for each other and that’s a problem.

I agree with shitsgetcrazy: op isn't being treated badly.

1)I think the grass seed is very telling here. The whole idea of op ordering it and then wanting DH to deal with it is when you think about it utterly crazy.

2)Despite op being told to get a housekeeper, Which post corona is an absolute sensible practical solution .....

it's now highlighted bigger more serious underlying issues:

of the money, not wanting to pay someone else to do it, being uncomfortable around money and get new wealth.

and inner self worth. the original post is has now kind of irrelevant because we've now delved into the more serious issues, underlying issues that really are the op's core problems.

OP is being treated as a lesser being because she is a woman and rail roaded into a subordinate housemaid role and her job doesn't matter.

I disagree the DH is happy to give up his job or hire help.

Can DH reduce his hours? 12 hour days are tough

If I was the dh I’d be phoning my divorce lawyer.

If my dp wanted me to do as much as lift a finger if I was grafting 6am-8pm? Everyday I’d tell them to get stuffed!

Who cares about flipping grass seed?? What’s the harm in a worn lawn??

Op reminds me of the wife in American beauty.

I’m all for LTB if a man expects wifework but this is ridiculous- I’m with the pp’s who said you are depriving others of an honest wage by not employing staff. It’s unethical from that POV.

@ladamanera, thank you for the reality check.(A serious thank you. Not sarcasm)

Thank you all. I’m really humbled by some of the posts. Seems like I need to take a good hard look at myself, my expectations and how we live.

You both neecto step back and look at what you've achieved: successful careers, an income beyond most people's wildest dreams and of course two wonderful kids.

Take stock of the fact that, even if there have been some bumps in the road, you have achieved this together.

After allowing yourself a moment of pride you then need to acknowledge that the division of labour can be a thorny subject in any household - draw a line under what has gone before and start thinking about how you're going to resolve it going forward. Your husband is right to want to outsource most things, but make clear you want some help with the hiring and firing. Yes this might mean a little more work for him in the short term but in the long term it really could help transform your family life.

Also get the kids chipping in with their chores.

OP,
It seems to me that you don’t feel seen, known, heard and understood in your relationship. This is a painful state of being.

Having money doesn’t change this. We need this from loving people around us and we can’t «buy» it. After working all those hours earning money you don’t need, he has little time or energy to your emotional needs and boost you up with love . He quite likely lacks the skills (knowledge of useful loving behaviours) having not learned them in childhood like so many of us.

I suspect your parents didn’t do a great job of validating you and understanding you either. Hence possibly your low self esteem. We need to be loved first in order to love ourselves.

I think you would benefit from listening to John Gottman «Making marriage work» ( not once but many times) and talks by Alan Robarge, and Stan Tatkin. YouTube them.

Also, read this website through. All the sections at useful. Learn boundary skills, validation skills and how to avoid Mastertalk.

www.alturtle.com/

With those you have the first keys and now it’s your turn to work. There is a lot we can do on our own to make a relationship better. He sounds at heart a decent bloke. All the best

2 things:

1. You haven't outsourced enough stuff. Why are you seeding your own lawn when a lawn company will come and make your lawn far better than you can ever do, in regular visits through the year. Laundry same. Gardening same. Neither of you should be doing any DIY unless it's as a hobby.

At the end of lockdown you need to outsource a lot more things. You have the money but not the time. This is the point of having the money.

1. He does have an attitude about your stuff being everything that isn't his stuff. And you have a whole problem about guilt.

Book yourself in for some counselling. It will help you with your guilt and you will communicate with him better so that you actually work as a team. It's a win win situation.

OP said she had been in therapy for 18 months.

Can I ask, OP, what you've got out of therapy so far? You said you hadn't discussed household tasks, which is fair enough, but is it helping you with feeling a failure etc? If it's not, then maybe look for someone else or a different approach?

With that kind of household income and the fact he's happy to do it, get a housekeeper! You don't need to stress yourself about this, it's a complete no-brainer. It sounds like you will benefit the most too. Maybe find a handyman too so you don't have to start putting hose reels on the wall as well?

You're in the fortunate position of being able to afford it, so just pay for the help and enjoy your beautiful home instead of being stressed all the time. Maybe get your children to stop dumping and start putting their stuff away properly?

My DM drilled into me that you don’t pay anyone to do something that you can do yourself. I genuinely struggle with the idea of paid help.

Gosh your mother has really done you a disservice with that one. You really, really need to get over this belief! Isn't it odd how things that our parents tell us as children become complete, inalienable law, even where they defy logic and common sense. Do you think that Dr Jenny Harris, or Oprah Winfrey, or Deborah Meaden, all do every task "that they can do themselves", and don't outsource/ delegate those that they can??! Or is OK for other people to get help, but just not you?? (apologies for the very random examples!!)

OP there is no point beingon this earth if we cannot be happy, and make our loved ones around us happy. You and your husband obviously work hard and are talented to be earning the salaries that you do. Enjoy what you have worked for, otherwise what was the point? Use it to improve the quality of all your lives.

Get yourself a really good housekeeper cum PA, and include within their role managing the cleaner and gardener.

Look after them really well, pay them a fair salary and let them know they are appreciated in their work. What can possibly be morally wrong with that? There are loads and loads of people out there for whom that would be a great position, and would really enjoy working for you, and get a sense of satisfaction in bringing order and harmony to your family.

It sounds like you are unhappy and and your H’s perceived lack of helpfulness has become the thing to explain it away.

It sounds like there’s probably a lot to unpick from your childhood that’s having and had a massive impact on your adult life. If you’ve spoken about separation, why hasn’t your feelings towards your H been part of the conversation with your therapist?

Your example of suffering with pain and how you initially dealt with it, says a lot about how you see yourself and it appears that your H is being blamed for your own issues of poor self worth.

@ladidadido are there also perfectionist issues going on perhaps from both of you?

Only because your DH likes the house tidy and it seems to be your job to achieve that - how tidy/messy it? The lawn needing reseeding - is that because you want it to look perfect?

Does the wealth come with a huge amount of pressure that everything looks perfect too?

Only you can decide if you are actually talking about the right things in therapy or whether it not the right type of therapy or therapist for you. It's sad that after 18 months you haven't talked about this.

When you and DH argue you don't actually tell him about the real issue... you don't seem to say "I feel hurt that you didn't do x to fit the kids toy outside because it would have made my life easier and made them happy"

It does seem that you look for validation from your DH in what he does/doesn't do but it's a secret test that he fails. Meanwhile he is oblivious that it's hurting your sense of worth. He's knackered and wants to chill most likely.

In the short term what do you do that you can stop doing? Lower your cleaning, cooking and tidying standards. Leave the kids stuff out rather than put it away but be up front with your DH about it?

Have you told him your workload has increased with Covid-19 and having the DC home? Have you asked him for more practical support and when this is over you'd like to get a housekeeper?

I think people are overlooking the fact that the loss of routine and the impact of being at home is hugely magnifying problems for some. Not belittling you situation at all by the way. But for example, the grass seed that people keep picking on is I suspect an analogy and a focus for the wider problems, not the grass seed itself. But because you’re stuck at home together and coping with all sorts of ongoing emotions, as you’ve opened up about, they manifest in these daily details.

OP I’m sorry you’ve had a hard time on here. As someone else pointed out, you don’t deserve the harshness just because of your money. I’ve posted recently on what could be deemed to be trivial matters compared to what’s going on in the world and haven’t been treated as you have.

No need for people to berate you when you’ve said you feel inadequate and have struggled your whole adult life. It’s just so unkind and unnecessary when you've asked for help. Honestly the double standards and hypocrisy is just not helpful. You have every right to ask for advice and I hope the negativity won’t set you back and I hope you can continue your counselling remotely through this. As your back pain perfectly illustrates, you are allowed your own feelings. If people don’t like what they are reading - move on, never understand this need to knock somebody when they’re down, albeit through a keyboard.

As for the issues themselves, I have nothing to add that probably hasn’t already been said other than for me what jumps out is your relationship and whether you both want it. You two need to work out if you want to be together and if so, really work at your relationship. Get you two and your communication sorted and happy to be together if that’s what you both want, the rest is just detail, it really is. I’ve been through divorce, raise kids single handedly and have limited income. It’s not easy but I am happier for it. I couldn’t have saved my marriage as my ex was v abusive, but for my kids if I could have I would have. Good luck

Can you work together to get the children more involved in tidying? It seems to me that the mess is not your mess or DH's but child mess.

Plastic boxes in the rooms. Dump stuff in. Child puts it away before supper each night.

Oh gosh, OP, this all sounds very familiar. I am in a similarly privileged position in that we both earn well, although not nearly as well as you both, but better than 95% of the country. And DH earns about 4-5 times what I do.

I hate having to manage someone in my home as well as at work, but about six months ago we hired a lady to do nanny-housekeeper job and she's fantastic. I understand the imposter syndrome and the conscientiousness about not getting notions above your station, but the fact is that this is your reality now. Hire someone reputable with a good work history and treat her as you like to be treated - as a professional getting on with the job. One person, not a team of staff, and pay your nannytax company to sort out pension obligations as well. Our housekeeper does all the laundry and cooks for the children (not now obviously but she does still come to clean because a) she wants to and b) when I'm working and homeschooling it's one less pressure on me - because like you, DH treats his working hours as sacrosanct and I'm expected to work around that with everything else. I have my laptop in the kitchen so I can hear the kids, he gets the home office.)

As the junior earner there is always a level of wage insecurity that comes from living a life you couldn't afford on your own, especially if you've been raised to be frugal. However all you can realistically do is manage for now and try to save alongside for later, being grateful for your situation but not taking it for granted. I hate taking expensive foreign holidays, but DH will spend an hour on the computer and book a week skiing, a week in the south of France and a week in Italy and that's about ten grand gone in minutes. He also will not buy life insurance which upsets me, because we have a detached house in a London suburb and I can't cover the mortgage/bills on my own so if he dies we will lose the house. Then again this is DH's ideal forever home, I'd like to downsize because he is never going to wipe a surface or hoover the floor if he can help it. But I have maxed out my pension payments and set up savings accounts for me and for the kids, and I'm trying to manage my level of risk that way.

Your role in the family is different to his but not lesser. You are evidently valued at work too but that doesn't mean you [both] need to work twice as hard to feel that you deserve what you've got. So you have to think strategically to manage that balance between giving you back some ease you can afford, and not wanting to splash out. In other words, part of your role in this partnership is the allocation of his resources for both of you, so spend wisely and create a pensionable part time job for a solid candidate. It might take you a while to find the right person but it will lift some of your burdens.

@PhilipJennings surely you can but some life insurance on your DH??

@RandomMess I looked into it but I think in this country you can only purchase it on someone else with their consent.

Removes one motivation for murder, I suppose

I kind of think he’s doing his share, but the relationship is over. There doesn’t seem to be any love there.

I don’t see how any of this is about money. All that jumps out at me from your posts is that you got pregnant and had to settle for your H.

He wasn’t your “knight in shining armour” i.e. you didn’t love him and he wasn’t good enough?

You settled for him, you resent having to share your life with him, and nothing he does will ever be good enough.

Also you are bitter because marrying him was “doing the right thing” and you haven’t been repaid for your sacrifice.

I don’t know what the solution is, but grass seed in the hall is not the problem here.