So why are there so many cheating posts on here?

[ceejay54321]

"There is plenty of evidence that males have less to lose than females by having extramarital sex," Lancaster said. "Having less to lose, it's easier for them to do it."

Women, however, could lose "dad's" resources when it comes to raising their kids. "For women, the well-being of their children is not improved by promiscuity," Lancaster told LiveScience.

Is this why?

Poly-Parcs...

Jane Lancaster, an evolutionary anthropologist at the University of New Mexico. "

If you have a second/third lover it's another possible source of resources plus confusion over who is the father means more men supporting offspring

Is another 'evolutionary' view of the matter

It's not like our distant ancestor hunter gatherers had lifetime pairbonding. It's probably linked to farming, changing from nomadic to staying put, inheritance of land, control of women. Like all the other shit patriarchy stuff.

Men are pretty useless on the whole. I see us being naturally more like a matriarchy. Use the men for sex then they fuck off and wander round for a bit. All the women work together to bring up the kids. Who cares who the fathers are?

@Scott72 I believe (don't quote me on it though) that this is the pattern you see in tribal societies

Do you know where you might have heard/read that? Sounds interesting

Surely it's partly biological imperative? Men can spread their genes by impregnating unlimited women all the time and even at a pretty advanced age, with no impact on their health, dangers from pregnancy or actual need to stick aroundfor their offspring. Women can only get pregnant a limited number of times, bear the brunt of childbearing and are programmed to feed and look after the baby. Plus they have no evolutionary need to keep having sex once they are past childbearing age.

Given all that, it's hardly surprising that men have a greater drive to go and shag other people than women do. I think the other thing that drives cheating is unrealistic, romanticised ideas of marriage and long term relationships.

I don't think we need to change our attitudes though. If you don't want to be in a monogamous relationship, don't.

@lazylinguist that’s a great post. I do think there is still a huge social pressure to get married, or an assumption that ‘this is what people do’. - right from a young age children watch this ideal in Disney films...

Have you ever seen communes work well though - there is an element of cooperation and social binding etc for common benefit in humans but there's also a strong selfishness in terms of looking after you, your kids, your partner (at that time) .. often at conflict with the former. Which is why we function as families within a community/society - a balance of both. But see a shortage/deprivation and the community element can fall apart quite easily. It doesn't seem to work - communism in any pure form hasn't worked to date, communes only seem to work as long as there's a v strong leader at the helm and usually have religious or cultish foundation. They are also absolutely rife with exploitation and corruption. You might have some people who are altruistic, principled, community minded and decent people but they don't seem to be the majority big society, rather the minority. Personally I think communes very rarely work - human nature being what it is. We simply don't have the drive to provide resources for kids who are not are own on a mass scale/consistently.

Or for anyone really.

Also a poster hot on the STD issue and it's very pertinent. HPV vaccine but no vaccine for hsv and many other Stu's. Hsv can damage unborn children. Has can be passed by skin contact even with condoms.

It's a potential disaster - the main reason stis are at the level they are is that most people don't regularly have concurrent sexual partners and have the chance to get symptoms, get tested, get treatment before moving into another partner. That wouldn't be happening in a polygamous society. The most efficient way of passing on stis is to have multiple concurrent partners. Sti rates would be much higher.

Also conflict would he much higher because, whether some of us would like to be polygamous or not we are equally if not more monogamous by nature - with deep rooted possessiveness and jealousy over our partners. That isn't socially learned. That's natural - from wanting our partners resources for our kids and not wanting to contribute resources to kids not ours. There'd be a lot more violence and instability.

@lazylinguist that’s a great post.

Thank you. It became pretty unfashionable to ascribe men's and women's sexual and relationship behaviour to biological and evolutionary reasons, because those arguments can be used to excuse or promote certain behaviours in a particular sex or to defend stereotypical expectations of people based on their sex. And obviously that's really bad. We can and must try as a society to eradicate those stereotypes, but that doesn't mean we can escape our biology. It occurs to me that that last sentence also applies very much to the trans debate.

@gilbertmarkham I do believe the majority of people ARE altruistic, but altruism in itself IS selfish. I think if a commune is set up in the right way it COULD work - and a lot of negative behaviour would be over come as people are living in a happier way. I can’t think of anywhere, where there is a Center Parcs style commune in the UK! Tribes make it work - we could learn from them?

Tribes make it work on a small scale. Tribes were also typified by constant theft and warfare among them.

Also going back to the original basis for the communes - polygamy .. it is fundamentally flawed for several reasons but the main one for me is that you're basing it on people wanting polygamy. Many women wouldn't want polygamy and what you've missed about men is that men have also not generally wanted polygamy. Not from any historical evidence (or anecdotal, contemporary behaviour) ...

they want polygyny, not polygamy. Big difference.

Think the UK also has a lot of theft and warfare! And is making a bigger negative impact on the world than those that live in tribes and consider the environment! I’m not saying ALL should be polygamous at all - I’m saying the choice of this lifestyle should be more mainstream and acceptable.

@gilbertmarkham A tribe could be small or large scale - depending on what works best for that community.

I’d want polygamy - and I think woman are just of capable of cheating as men.

Pro polygamist/restructure society folks on here always seem to want to blame monogamous relationships for cheating .. but the fact is that all the cheaters on here had the choice of ending their main relationship or requesting an open relationship. . in our society we don't force people to stay married or to stay in relationships if they don't want to be.. but they chose to cheat. Because they want to have their cjae and eat it .. because they want monogamy from their main partner but not to be monogamous themselves. The crux is that while you think they're not happy with monogamy, they actually perfectly happy with monogamy for their partner (and often their affair partner too), just not for them.

Think the UK also has a lot of theft and warfare!

Seriously?

You are seriously trying to compare living in a developed society where you're free to travel wherever you like and that has an actually low level of crime with living in a tribe where you're not truly safe off your territory.

I’d want polygamy

But do you think you're representative?

Try a poll on here.

(I don't think you are).

- and I think woman are just of capable of cheating as men.

Of course they do, however all "reliable" surveys put male cheating at a higher level than female.

"Do you know where you might have heard/read that? Sounds interesting"

How about this statement about Australian aboriginal societies for instance: "Divorce could occur by mutual consent or unilaterally, again, in most cases, without any particular formality: divorce involved, and was signified by, the termination of cohabitation."

I've seen a table showing divorce rates in tribal societies in a book called "Noble Savages?" - about 60%. So I do get the impression divorce was common, but only after a couple of children had been born. Monogamy also appears to have been the rule. The problem with unrestricted polygny is that it results in most men never having a chance at a wife. Such societies aren't stable.

Polygamy has various appeals but I think most people, if being realistic about it, see it as potentially messy, complicated, emotionally uncomfortable and unfulfilling etc. Fundamentally it is unnatural for us - we have developed monogamy with a side of sneaky cheating as our standard for many reasons.

*Serial monogamy, I should clarify

@gilbertmarkham Tribal living in the UK would still follow the same rules of law...

@Scott72 Could that style of living work in the UK?

It’s maybe not polygamy I want - more the situation @Scott72 is describing

I’m not talking about poly or mono being the norm - it’s more about a choice and education about that choice

And a range of lifestyles being acceptable