If your oh of two years tells you he is very selfish..

[supersonicspender]

And is not sure about having children in the future, wwyd?
I would like a child or two. I am in late twenties. He is mid thirties. Otherwise the relationship is perfect .

He is 35. That is really quite old to still be dating, and if he is happy enough to be moving in with you but is still saying he doesn't want kids, I'd say at his age and in that position, he really doesn't want kids. Does he live at home now? Has he been alone a long time with not too many serious relationships? I wouldn't sacrifice my children plans for a selfish man. If he's selfish now, he will be intolerable at 65. I think you will end up resenting him. It's a big sacrifice for someone who saw kids as part of the plan, but more than that, his attitude shows a real core selfishness that would for me be very off-putting.

And I wanted to add, I say this knowing how sad and hard it is to break up with someone you love. I think I'd try to bring it to a head for your own sake and close it out. Tell him how you feel. That your life plan includes children. And not in 10 years - in the next five, so if he is not that man he needs to tell you for sure because essentially he is wasting your child bearing years, even if you adore him. You need pull off the plaster.

Actually, I'm going to be really blunt.

Warning: This is not true of all childless relationships, nor of all people who don't want children. I'm saying that now, to be really explicit. I don't want people saying, 'That's an outrageous thing to say about people who don't want children.'

Yes. It would be an outrageous thing to say. And wrong - ethically and factually.

And that's why it's not what I'm saying.

So, OP, reading between the lines:

You conflate masses of things here: selfishness, not wanting children (him), wanting children (you), mixing up care and control (they are different, you know. Similar when caring for an infant human - but different: and very different when we talk about adult humans).

I think your misgivings about this relationship extend further than the have-not have children issue.

Instead of suppressing that intuition - burying it under the 'have/not have children' issue - you need to face them square on.

Issue 1. The biggie.

You tell us you want children.

It sounds to me as though what you enjoy in this relationship is 'playing mum' to your adult male partner.

In return for 'caring' for him, you get a lot of control.

And you get to play out your maternal fantasies in a low-risk setting (after all, he's not really a child/baby, so any deep fears you have about not coping as a mother/failing a real child, need not be addressed - he's an adult and not, in actual fact, dependent on you).

He likes this too.

He likes being cared for. And in return for the control he cedes to you in your caring, you give him control in 'adult' aspects of your life: eg. Over dates.

You don't say it but I'll bet you give him control sexually too.

So, he gets his fantasy of a mother-he-can-fuck.

You get your fantasy of a-child-that-isn't-overwhelming.

And you both get to ignore this fantasy because you also play-act adult roles of dominance and adult sexuality.

Everything is therefore able to tick along.

Obviously, the entry of a real, actual child into this scenario is going to blow the complex fantasy to smithereens.

For both of you.

I think you know this, deep down.

Which is why you're posting on Mumsnet, rather than having an adult chat with the person you're considering raising a child with.

1. Issue 2.

Your self-esteem.

I honestly think you need someone - or someone's - in your life to help you believe how worthwhile you are.

I really hope I haven't been too blunt.

And, of course, I could be wide of the mark.

It just seems to me that you are really confused - and you are posting here precisely because you are hoping someone will help you with a question you don't quite know how to frame.

The great virtue of an on-line, anonymous forum us that you are free to read people's suggestions and thoroughlly discard thdm.

So, you can read this and think, 'That I'd so wise of the mark.'

And that's good.

Because then you know that is one thing that can be dismissed - and it will help you get closer to the real thing that's bugging you - and thereby find your solution.

So / feel free to dismiss this.

It's only a suggestion.

Good luck.

Tell him how you feel. That your life plan includes children. And not in 10 years - in the next five, so if he is not that man he needs to tell you for sure because essentially he is wasting your child bearing years

The danger with this approach is that he'll tell her what she wants to hear. And carry on regardless.

Because he is both selfish and not emotionally invested in this relationship.

Excellent post cat.

Not enough people do this: you need to know what your ethics/priorities/values/ plans/goals are, and THEN choose a partner. If religion, children, lifestyle, politics, etc., are a big priority of yours then choose someone for whom this it's also a priority. If babies are a priority for you then this partner isn't. If babies are lower down your list of priorities then you can make it work.

If OP was happy, truly happy in the relationship, then she wouldn't be posting on here. She'd have made her decision, discussed it with her partner and be either leaving him, happily ttc, or coming to terms with not having children.

The fact that she's brought the decision to this forum means that there is a problem. Is that problem as simple as not being able to properly discuss things with your 'selfish' partner, OP?

Somewhere in this thread, advice was given to take him out of the equation and consider whether you really want children. It’s good advice to follow that thought process.

However I would also suggest you take the children out of the equation and consider things. Will you relationship survive anyway. I think not.

He sounds like someone who enjoys being free of responsibility. He has probably never advanced beyond having a live in girlfriend. He doesn’t want to or need to. He is telling you all of that now. His boundary is firmly in place.

Men like him don’t care if you give ultimatums and leave. They just find a new you. Same age, young, wanting romance and a boyfriend to look after. One who can wait a few years before wanting commitment. When that comes up he tells them he isn’t ready for children and may never be. They make calculations and leave him.

At some point he may realise that he is getting too old for the game with the young girls. He could then accept commitment and children but he will be useless at it. Sometimes they just shift into older women who have had their children but don’t mind another one in the shape of him.

He is not planning a future with you. He enjoys what he has now. There isn’t anything more on offer. Never will be.

A selfish man doesn't make a good father though op. So even if he did go along with having a child, that child would have a really poor role model which could lead to all sorts of problems. A selfish child being one of them, a completely fucked up one being another.
You're not actually thinking of the consequences for the child if you did have one. So either way........
It's not great.
You'll grow up and change. You sound like you like this inbalance of power, he'll likely get more set in his ways and you'll get sick of him calling the shots and denying you a child.
No win.

But having children IS a very selfish thing! It’s the most selfish thing you can do!! You’re passing on your genes to the next generation, preserving your DNA - can he look at it that way??

He's been honest and he hasn't changed his mind in the time you have been together.

You just don't want to hear it. He's unlikely to change his mind.

I was your DP and told my now DH I didn't think I wanted kids. He basically told me that was a problem for him and kind of gave me an ultimatum in not so many words. We had a DC. They're perfect. But I know if he hadn't given me that choice I would have probably not had any. I am way too selfish to be a parent. It's a daily struggle.

But having children is very, very, very, very VERY selfish!

I just think he's not up for commitment to you in a nutshell.

Thanks for al the replies.The post about being a mum figure to him hit a raw nerve as he loves being minded and cooked for and cared for by me( and by his mum, nan etc) and I love doing that for him.It makes me happy and he loves that about me. It worried me to think that it was seen as a fantasy because it's our reality.I understand why a baby would upset the routine for him.
Tbh, he is in charge sexually but I do not have a problem here.It suits us.
My self esteem is bad.I feel valued and loved by my bf, for the first time in my adult life.
I will chat with him this weekend. Thank you .

Something I’ve learnt as I’ve got older is that love is over rated! By that I don’t mean you don’t need it in a relationship, but it’s certainly not the only thing you needs. There needs to be kindness, support, respect (that’s a really big one), openness, the same or similar values etc. You can say “but I love him”, but that simply isn’t a good enough reason to invest in a relationship.

Also please stop skivvying for him. It’s so incredibly depressing to see. You may not mind now, but when he starts to see it as your job and take it for granted, you won’t be so happy about the role you’ve assigned yourself. I’m not suggesting that you never cook for him, or do anything nice, but stop cleaning his bloody house! Have you not got anything better to do? Go out with friends, take a class or do a hobby. Stop mothering a grown man, it’s not your job just because you were born female.

Am I right in thinking you clean his house, cook his dinner and then he might go straight to the pub after work and not even let you know? Because that is not just selfish, that’s a massive lack of respect and you accepting that is telling him that you don’t respect yourself much either.

He will pay lip service to what you say and will carry on in the same vein because it suits him to do so. He certainly gets what he wants out of this but I fail to see what you get out of it (apart from some innate need of yours to take care of him). He is merely the latest in line of unsuitable and otherwise rubbish boyfriends you've seen. Just because he seems less nasty than the others you've dated does not mean to say he is actually nicer.

What did you learn about relationships exactly when you were growing up?. You owe it to yourself to ask yourself that. Did you learn to put men first at the expense of your own self; it certainly seems that way. What other rubbish did you learn about relationships, what was your own parents example like?. Do you actually know what a mutually respectful relationship is, I do not think you do and sadly no-one bothered to show you either. What you have now certainly is not it.

He has it made with you really doesn't he and that is profoundly depressing. You've basically handed over an awful lot of power and control to him here all too readily; no wonder he is lapping up the imbalance. He wants you around still so you can clean house for him.

Why are his needs here more important than yours and sexually too?. That would suit someone like this man down to the ground indeed but your needs are being subsumed. Have you ever heard of codependency; I am wondering whether you are indeed codependent in relationships.
Where do you see yourself in five years time; still with him?.

My god thecatfromjapan speaks perfect sense.

You cannot change this man, a baby will not change him. The best thing you can do for yourself is accept the situation as it is and make your decision.

Get pregnant by stealth, he'll probably stick around

I wonder if he doesn't want a baby because he's very aware that it would mean that he would stop being the focus of your caring. He likes being 'doted on' too much to want to share that.

Weffiepops I hope your post isn't serious. That would be an incredibly stupid and selfish thing for the OP to do - the sort of thing that gets women a bad name, in fact, and means that genuine accidental pregnancies can be dismissed as 'trapping' the man.

he loves being minded and cooked for and cared for by me( and by his mum, nan etc) and I love doing that for him.

He is not going to cope if you have a baby which rightly becomes the centre of your attention. He’s not going to step up and care for you and a baby in the way that you need. He’s not going to share any of the care, the night feeds, the school run, the general childcare, housework etc. In fact he’ll probably get difficult and jealous about not receiving 100% of your attention. Read the many, many posts on here about the mental load and selfish partners.

He’s telling you now so he can absolve himself of any guilt about not doing anything to support you. “But I told you I was selfish”.

Like others have said, he might be superficially “nicer” than your previous partners, but he is not nice, he is not kind. He’s a lazy selfish man child who is happy to be waited on by the women in his life.

You can do so, so much better.

You are just one of the millions of women out there who naively thinks that she can change a man by having his baby. Do it and see what happens. In a couple of months/years down the line you’ll be back on this site moaning about the prick and how you would like to leave him but unable to do so because you have his baby.

Good luck for your chat. Stand up for yourself and make it clear what you want eg I want kids. I want to get married before I have kids to protect myself and our children, I don't want a long engagement- once we decide to get married, if this is what you want now great, if you're not sure/ or are sure you don't want this show me the respect of telling me now. If we're not serious I am not moving in with you. Kids are a deal breaker for me, if you're not sure now fine, but let's keep it casual and reassess in a year, if you're still not sure by then we should split so it's fair on both of us..... He'll respect you for being straight with him and it may make him assess what he wants that is on offer ( not his version of having his cake and eating it).