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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Keeping some mystery in relationships

144 replies

ArtemisOfOrtygia · 05/02/2020 12:44

It seems to me like the waters (amongst women) are very divided when it comes to "keeping some mystery" in relationships. Some women feel self-conscious about doing certain things in front of their partner, while other women think everything that's natural and normal shouldn't be hidden. I'm talking about things like farting and burping, going to the toilet, etc. in front of one's partner. I guess I'm just curious about both types of women...

To those that belong to the latter mentioned group:

  • How have your partners (throughout life, not just current one) reacted to you doing these things in front of them?
  • How do you find the confidence to do such intimate and, potentially, off-putting things in front of a partner?

To the women that belong to the first-mentioned group:

  • What do you do when you have to stay in a hotel room with your partner, and you have to share an ensuite bathroom...and that's neither sound-proof, nor have any windows? Surely, it's not very romantic feeling to know your partner can hear you in the bathroom?

I'm asking because I always grew up learning that it's vulgar and unladylike to do certain things in front of people, and in front of men, particularly. I'm just unsure of how I'm supposed to cope with things (I deem to be) embarrassing in front of their partners. My fiancé wants us to live together, but I have told him I'd prefer it if we continue to live separately. When we go on holidays, I usually book an AirBnB that's big enough for the both of us to have some private space, or I book two separate rooms. But he finds it weird and unnecessary...

OP posts:
Opentooffers · 05/02/2020 18:17

Was quite refreshing and reassuring that my last partner was not bothered in the slightest where I farted from the get go. I have limited control since having my son due to 3 degree tear, so actually I can have extra anxiety about it when starting something new ( could tell he has was a bit too happy to push them out himself though 🤔).
I'd draw the line at dumping in front of someone though, some things you just like alone time for 😉

SueEllenMishke · 05/02/2020 18:18

I'm yet to meet a social scientist who doesn't believe in socialisation. While it's not an exact science you can make some pretty robust arguments.

BlueEyedFloozy · 05/02/2020 18:28

Have you explained your feelings to your fiancée and discussed your background and why it makes you uncomfortable?

What does he think about it all?

In all honesty, if I was him I couldn't personally be with someone who was (in my view) so uptight about everyday normal stuff. I would feel that they were inhibited and couldn't be themselves around me. Wanting privacy is normal because we've been taught that is the right way but your reaction is extreme.

I know you've said already that you wouldn't consider counseling but I really do think it would benefit you to understand where these feelings come from and how to refocus your anxiety and expectations of how people react in relationships - failing that the only reasonable advice would be to find someone who agrees with your beliefs.

PurrBox · 05/02/2020 18:40

OP if you are planning on having kids, I think it is pretty sad that you would't want their father there at the birth, as you said earlier:

"yeah, wait until you are giving birth in front of him
I personally don't intend on doing that, actually."

Romance comes from the profound mystery of another person's mind and soul, combined with the beauty you see in one another and the magical bond you feel for one another.
In my opinion it has nothing to do with farts.

ArtemisOfOrtygia · 05/02/2020 18:45

I am a counsellor, and to be honest there is nothing wrong with going to speak to someone even about the most "banal" things. We need to treat mental and emotional health like physical health. If you have a physical problem it is advisable to speak to a medical professional.
I just have a problem with turning people into adult babies that can't cope with the smallest adversity in life. Which will inevitably happen when we create a society where we nurse non-wounds, and set the precedence that that's normal. We will get to a point where people will feel a need to get counselling for waking up 5 minutes late. Because we treat these sort of issues as serious problems. No offence, but as a counsellor you have an agenda in wanting people to seek counselling for silly things. It makes you money, does it not? Probably easy money, too.

This, again, seems to be your opinion, as you have mentioned many times in posts above. I am wondering if part of your non feminist views are to see women as not equal to men and as such should fall into a more traditional role.
Not at all. I am traditional in some ways, but certainly not in other ways. I have read many threads on here where I actually get upset that women don't look after themselves more. For instance, when women write they have given up on their careers, rights, happiness, self respect, etc. in order for their men to advance their's. I think there's nothing more powerful than an independant woman that can do things on her own terms (of course with some reasonable compromises, because relationships do consist of two people, not just oneself).

'This is entirely your own choice and if you choose to be a more traditional "wife/partner" then nobody has a right to question*
I don't want to be a traditional wife...

that but if someone is in a situation where they feel IN ANY WAY less than because of something their partner has said or done then it is, in fact, abuse, be it emotional, psychological, physical or verbal.
I totally agree. But I don't think it's right for people on an anonymous forum to label something, that on paper, sounds banal as abuse. I can understand when people do it in threads where the person wants to know if their experiences can be labelled as abuse - but I have seen threads where people just mention normal problems, and posters will claim they are in an abusive relationship without the OP even mentioning anything about feeling abused. That's out of order, I think.

Your attitude to moving in with your partner is indeed something that I would discuss with a client as it seems to be more than a privacy issue. I'm wondering if you think that your partner would see you as less desirable or less of a woman if he is aware that you have human bodily functions?
That's a good question. I'm not really worried about those things, no. It's more my own embarrassment. Some people mentioned they just laugh about farting, and whatnot...I don't think I could do that. I think I'd feel even worse and more embarrassed if something I'm already embarrassed about was made into a joke. That's like poking at someone's insecurity, I guess. It's not funny to me.

*I am not suggesting that you need to do any of the behaviours you do not wish to so (again privacy is a personal matter) but there is a difference between intimacy and privacy.

It is interesting that you haven't mentioned sex itself (or maybe I missed that) Would you find the sights/sounds/smells of sexual intercourse to be acceptable for example?*
Funny enough, I'm very confident about my body, nudity and sex. I have no issues with that at all. It's more the bathroom stuff I have an issue with.

I'm wondering if you are able to let yourself be yourself in that type of intimate scenario or if indeed that is also a difficult task for you privacy wise?
No issue in those regards...

You also mentioned that you have seen boys be protective of little girls etc. This is all learned behaviour and is socially constructed. This type of behaviour is learned from the moment we are born. There are many factors which can affect this. There are many books and papers on early childhood development which show the types of social constructs we adapt due to our surroundings.
This is what everyone has been saying, but I'm still not a believer of it, sadly, hehe.

In conclusion, no I don't think people advise people to speak to a counsellor for banal reasons, I think it is a very helpful thing to do ( not only as a counsellor but also as someone who has had many years of counselling myself) Your comment was very defensive when counselling was suggested which makes one wonder why you feel it a counselling suggestion is a criticism?
I didn't see it as a criticism, and I actually didn't take the comment about getting counselling personally insulting. As I mentioned in my initial reaction, I just got a bit annoyed that "counselling" seem to be the solution that is given for everything, even things that don't really require counselling. That's all. If you can afford to get counselling for banal reasons, sure, go ahead and get it. But we also have to remember that not everyone have the option to go to a counsellor whenever they have a big problem, let alone a little problem.

I have nothing against counselling, I have even been helped by a psychologist when I was in Uni and suddenly started to get performance anxiety (have never had any history of anxiety prior). Only a few months of speaking to a psychologist truly changed my life.

For the record I don't use the toilet in front of my partner but I don't judge people who do, it's a personal choice.
That's great, my friend. I also don't judge anyone who does, but as you have probably gathered, it's hard for me to do what they do. But I think I can definitely learn from women who are more comfortable in these regards than I am!

Thanks for your time and interest, I appreciate it.

OP posts:
Emmelina · 05/02/2020 18:57

Bless you. We’re 20 years in, people do less time for murder.
I’ve drained an abcess in his arsecrack. He’s seen me crap all over the hospital bedsheets giving birth to two of our DC.
Farting in front of each other or him catching me shaving my legs is nowt! Blush

ArtemisOfOrtygia · 05/02/2020 18:58

Have you explained your feelings to your fiancée and discussed your background and why it makes you uncomfortable?
Of course. He mostly understands, but he sometimes try to push my boundaries so we can actually stay in the same room on vacation, for instance. But on many levels, he does share my views, and he's also fine with less traditional relationship setups. Like, he sees the benefits of having separate bedrooms, for instance. Because he likes to sleep in a warm room, I like mine ice cold. I sleep to music, he can't sleep unless it's completely quiet. I like the curtains drawn so the moonlight shines through the window, and I can wake up to the sunrise, he likes the room to be pitch dark. While he's totally fine with separate bedrooms in order to get a goo night's sleep, he would like to live in the same house. Perhaps that's the compromise that needs to be made: Live in the same house, but have separate bedrooms.

In all honesty, if I was him I couldn't personally be with someone who was (in my view) so uptight about everyday normal stuff. I would feel that they were inhibited and couldn't be themselves around me. Wanting privacy is normal because we've been taught that is the right way but your reaction is extreme.
I get what you mean. But believe it or not, I'm very relaxed about pretty much all other things. This bathroom habit stuff is the only thing I get cringey and embarrassed about...

I know you've said already that you wouldn't consider counseling but I really do think it would benefit you to understand where these feelings come from and how to refocus your anxiety and expectations of how people react in relationships - failing that the only reasonable advice would be to find someone who agrees with your beliefs.
Oh, I didn't say I wouldn't consider counselling, just that I didn't think it was necessary to suggest it for my issue. Because I don't think it's something that's ruining my life, or anything. It's just an inconvenience that I hope and think can be dealt with with some compromise. That's why I made this thread, to learn what other people have done.

OP posts:
ArtemisOfOrtygia · 05/02/2020 19:03

OP if you are planning on having kids, I think it is pretty sad that you would't want their father there at the birth, as you said earlier
Why is it sad? I don't consider birth to be a beautiful thing, it's just a necessary part of having a child. I don't feel the need for him in the delivery room with me, and he says he doesn't feel a strong need to witness the birth, either. The only reason he'd be in there would be to support me, but I don't see myself needing it. But who knows, I have never been in that situation.

Romance comes from the profound mystery of another person's mind and soul, combined with the beauty you see in one another and the magical bond you feel for one another.
In my opinion it has nothing to do with farts.

I totally agree.

OP posts:
ArtemisOfOrtygia · 05/02/2020 19:05

By the way, thanks for everyone who have responded to my original questions. Even though I have been busy replying to posts, I have read them all, and I appreciate your openness and candidness! All your replies have definitely given me food for thought.

I'm ahead in time to you in the UK so I'm calling it a night. Thanks again, everyone.

OP posts:
dodgeballchamp · 05/02/2020 19:14

You do realise you don’t need ‘a problem’ to have counselling? It isn’t all about issues being fixed. It can be just to understand and self-analyse and learn where your behaviours come from. I think everyone should have therapy at some point!

AnastasiaBeverleyHills · 05/02/2020 19:30

@ArtemisOfOrtygia

Only you can decide what way things will work when/if you move in together. Tell your partner that you're not comfortable with him hearing you/being near you when you're in the bathroom. If it's discussed it's something he should respect.

To answer some of your questions/points......

It makes you money, does it not? Probably easy money, too

It actually doesn't. I work for a charity on a totally volunteer basis. While I am a fully trained counsellor I also have a very different full time job that I make my money from. I also would not want to encourage people to come to counselling when they don't require it as it's a waste of my limited time when I could be helping someone who genuinely needs it. Counselling it not an ego stroking exercise, it's way of understanding ourselves better and learning why our mind work a certain way and if we can change that or in fact need to change that. I am glad you had a positive experience with your psychologist.

turning people into adult babies that can't cope with the smallest adversity in life

Something the smallest adversities are the straw that breaks the camel's back. I have had people come to me over very minor issues and it reveals a minefield. Also some people's banal/adultbaby issue/small thing is someone else's Everest.

without the OP even mentioning anything about feeling abused

I deal with many abused people while working with the charity. The majority don't "feel" abused. Again, abuse is not subjective I'm afraid, it is also seen as banal/everyday by lots of people because it has been normalised either by their own situations or by their beliefs about what roles a husband or wife should fulfill.

This is what everyone has been saying, but I'm still not a believer of it, sadly, hehe

No one can make you believe but as you aware there are many, many peer reviewed journals on this and many hours of research.

Tombakersscarf · 05/02/2020 19:34

What a bitchy comment to make to the counsellor who posted, OP. "Easy money".
I suppose being resistant to the idea that something is wrong is natural. It's good you've asked for advice. I don't think anyone on here has said they feel the same way about keeping separate from a partner as you have, so that should give you the idea that your feelings are not "normal", as in not shared by most people.

PurrBox · 05/02/2020 19:59

Having given birth 3 times I can assure you that it would have been sad for my husband not to have been there when his children were born. I didn't particularly feel he was there to 'support me'. He was there because the children were his just as much as mine. I had been holding them for 9 months, and the moment they came into the world and he got to meet them was deeply significant. Perhaps birth is not 'a beautiful thing', but it is, in my opinion, earth-shatteringly meaningful to the 3 people involved.
That's why I think it is very sad for a caring father to miss it. Sad

Kn0ckOnTheDoor · 05/02/2020 20:53

What do you do when you have to stay in a hotel room with your partner, and you have to share an ensuite bathroom

when in a hotel room with DC, DH, family or friends if im doing a wee i turn the tap on. anything more and i go down to reception to get ice or more milk or whatever and use the public toilet there. not for anyones benefit but my own. i would be embarrassed at the sound/smell and would rather do it away from people. at home i dont use the en suite for more than a wee, i go to the main bathroom.

giggleshizz · 05/02/2020 21:04

I was the first poster who suggested counseling. My rational for this was it might help you to explore some of the issues surrounding intimacy and feeling vulnerable infront of your partner.

While there is no right way to conduct a relationship, I do think feeling that you don't want to move in with your fiance or share a room with him slightly unusual hence my suggestion to explore this further as it seems to be deeply rooted in the way you were raised. Would you not enjoy living with your fiance and feel relaxed around him?

I am also curious, although appreciate you may not wish to answer this, but what do you do during sex? An extremely intimate act that can include farting (both front and back), squelchy noises and lots of fluid? Does this bother you?

Potatobug · 05/02/2020 21:17

I have a feeling that those who proudly say they do everything in front of their partner from wiping their shitty bottom via giving birth to thunderous farting, just try to convince everybody how close they are to their partner and how loved and accepted they are by him, warts -farts- and all, and those who don’t do these things are just sore losers who don’t know what true love is, and what uptight people they must be. Good heavens.

DjMomo · 05/02/2020 21:23

giggleshizz
Counselling for not wanting to fart and shit in front of your partner? ARE YOU FUCKING INSANE???? Are you also going to suggest she has mental health problems and needs therapy?

Tombakersscarf · 05/02/2020 21:58

Djmomo she doesn't want to LIVE with her partner based on her feelings about this, is that really what you think of as normal, healthy behaviour?

giggleshizz · 06/02/2020 07:41

@DJMomo no, for not wanting to live with her soon to be husband. No issue with people not wanting to go to the loo infront of each other. I don't either, but I do think that struggling to share a house/room with the person you love is a bit concerning. It was only a suggestion, no three line whip!

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