Keeping some mystery in relationships

[ArtemisOfOrtygia]

It seems to me like the waters (amongst women) are very divided when it comes to "keeping some mystery" in relationships. Some women feel self-conscious about doing certain things in front of their partner, while other women think everything that's natural and normal shouldn't be hidden. I'm talking about things like farting and burping, going to the toilet, etc. in front of one's partner. I guess I'm just curious about both types of women...

To those that belong to the latter mentioned group:

• How have your partners (throughout life, not just current one) reacted to you doing these things in front of them?

• How do you find the confidence to do such intimate and, potentially, off-putting things in front of a partner?

To the women that belong to the first-mentioned group:

• What do you do when you have to stay in a hotel room with your partner, and you have to share an ensuite bathroom...and that's neither sound-proof, nor have any windows? Surely, it's not very romantic feeling to know your partner can hear you in the bathroom?

I'm asking because I always grew up learning that it's vulgar and unladylike to do certain things in front of people, and in front of men, particularly. I'm just unsure of how I'm supposed to cope with things (I deem to be) embarrassing in front of their partners. My fiancé wants us to live together, but I have told him I'd prefer it if we continue to live separately. When we go on holidays, I usually book an AirBnB that's big enough for the both of us to have some private space, or I book two separate rooms. But he finds it weird and unnecessary...

I wasn't taught, but naturally feel drawn to anyway.
You may not have been taught explicitly but you learned this behaviour.

It's really not. Just go on google scholar
I have. As I mentioned, I have never come across anything that convinces me that lady-like is a social construct. That's why I asked you to share the resources you base your universal facts on.

All explained by socialisation. These messages come from a number of sources....fairly tales, TV, language used to describe appropriate behaviour.
Again, that's not my belief.

I suspect you don't have access to anything .....database lol
Well, I suspect you aren't a sociologist. Anyone can be whatever they want to be behind a computer screen.

And yes, Springer is a database. It's a system that stores data, is it not?

Yes, this particular thing. Other things that are considered to be lady-like, I wasn't taught, but naturally feel drawn to anyway

Bullshit.

Welcome to Mumsnet by the way 🙄

I suppose I am mostly in the first camp save for periods though. DH has happily boiled my mooncup and got me sanitary protection etc. I just don't feel comfortable with going to the bathroom in front of anyone and that would include my mum or friends too. I have been like this since I was a little girl, I didn't want my mum bathing me from 6 years old.

If we are away then I would either go when he wasn't there, or go while I waited for my shower to warm up, which only takes a minute or two. It isn't because I am obsessed with some idea of mystery, it is due to me being very uncomfortable otherwise. My husband wouldn't care, he is not private at all.

He’s watched me give birth to 3 children. Whatever else our relationship has going for it, an air of mystery is not one of those things.

The only thing I don't really like dp see me do is being sick. He insists on trying to ealn in everytime I'm ever sick though. We do everything else infront of each other 🤷‍♀️

There’s so much wrong with this. Girls and boys aren’t born instinctively knowing what’s ‘ladylike’ and what’s not. Read any basic A-level psychology text about socialisation. Some tribal cultures sleep with entire extended families in one wooden hut and walk around semi naked, if being ‘ladylike’ is so instinctive why aren’t the girls and women perturbed by this? What about the Samoan islanders who raise some male children as a ‘third gender’ with lots of traditionally female traits?

You also admit your opinion is just that, an opinion, but can’t accept when people point out it isn’t based in fact.

You admit you were raised to find things vulgar and unladylike which is doubtless why you feel as you do now - that’s socialisation in action.

Fine, fart in a separate room and never talk about pooing but the fact you can’t even contemplate cohabiting or sharing a hotel room is a disproportionate reaction. It isn’t usual to feel THAT repulsed by things that you can’t even be in the same house as a partner! Counselling is a good suggestion to unpick the repression you were taught as a child. You sound like you have a significant amount of internalised misogyny

You've been on google scholar? Why don't you share what you found that supports your belief that how we behave is not a social construct?

Here is a link to an article about the impact of fairy tales on gender appropriate behaviour. Which aspects do you disagree with?

link.springer.com/article/10.1023/B:CLID.0000030223.88357.e8

How long have you dated your fiance? Why don’t you want to live together? Your OP refers to your preference for privacy, which if a key reason would be unusual.
It's a bit complicated, because we've been on and off for years (due to living and working abroad), but around 5 years in total. It's not that I don't want to live with him, I'm just worried that things I'd rather keep to myself would be hard to keep for myself with him around all the time.

Ah, you seem to have some unusual views about sex differences! Are you a US religious type?
I do have some unusual views - I didn't realise that's a bad thing? Are we all supposed to think and believe the same things?
And no, I'm not religious and I have never even been to USA...

Yes, I do. I have seen little boys that wouldn't know about life or society be cautious and protective of little girls, for instance. I believe the little boys instinctively feel this way towards little girls, and that the instinct only grow stronger with age.

In fairness, being clenched about bodily functions even to the point of refusing to live with her fiancé in case he overhears her having a wee is the least of the OP's problems if she genuinely believes gendered behaviour is innate, rather than socially constructed.

I tried to keep the mystery but after shitting the bed when in labour I feel that it's gone. My DH doesn't care.

Well, I suspect you aren't a sociologist. Anyone can be whatever they want to be behind a computer screen.
well I am - advance search me. I've discussed my career as an academic in numerous posts. I specifically specialise in the career development of women.

Nobody who is familiar with academic publications uses the terminology 'database'

You do know that attitudes like yours harm women in society? They play into the patriarchy and put women at a disadvantage across many arenas of society.
It's so depressing.
I'm not a feminist, so I feel no sense of obligation to take responsibility for entire womanity. I'm only responsible for myself. I don't see any women standing up for me (instead, I feel rather attacked by a lot of you (I assume you must be women). If I were to support feminism, feminism should be supportive of me, not just women that believe what you believe.

I hope you're a troll
I think the depressing part is that one can't have a different opinion without being labelled as a troll. Is this what the world has come to? We must all think and believe the same, otherwise we will be labelled as trolls, and treated as such?

OP, I honestly don't mean to sound snide, but your upbringing has really screwed up your thinking about bodily functions and what's 'lady-like'. You think the way you do because of the way you were brought up and the fact that you can't or won't challenge these thoughts in adulthood not because it's 'natural' for you to think them.

And I say that as someone who keeps my bodily functions largely to myself as regards the rest of the human race, male or female.

I think there has to be a happy medium, you don't want to go full on Jim Royle, but neither should you be holding stuff in that's going to make you ill. Why is MN always so binary?

I agree with everyone else that 'ladylike' is a social construct, but I think revulsion and feeling of shame when it comes to bodily bad smells can be seen as natural as it implies illness (and is unpleasant!) etc, so to an extent if either sex feels repulsed by things to do with poo, that can be a natural reaction as much as a socialised reaction.
(Saying this as one half of a merrily farting partnership).

Feminists will not support misogyny.
You can have a opinion but we can't? Numerous people have pointed out the flaws in your opinions but you're unwilling to back them up.

You've been on google scholar? Why don't you share what you found that supports your belief that how we behave is not a social construct?
I don't base my personal beliefs on science, I base them on my own observations and experiences, not somebody else's.

Here is a link to an article about the impact of fairy tales on gender appropriate behaviour. Which aspects do you disagree with?
I will have a read when I have responded to the other messages.

well I am - advance search me. I've discussed my career as an academic in numerous posts. I specifically specialise in the career development of women
I can also call myself Jennifer Aniston on an anonymous forum and ask people to search me.

Nobody who is familiar with academic publications uses the terminology 'database'
So what do you call a system that stores data, as someone who's familiar with academic publications?

It honestly never occurred to me not to fart/ burp/ use the loo as normal in front of a boyfriend. I've never had a boyfriend who didn't do those things in front of me, so why wouldn't I do the same? Do people really stop what they're doing to go to the bathroom and fart? I can't imagine living like that. I've never had a boyfriend make an issue of it (apart from lighthearted "phew love that was a honker" type comments). Idk maybe a bunch of my exs have secretly ended things for that reason but they'd be bloody hypocrites if they did! It's not something I ever needed confidence for - the alternative never crossed my mind. I'm not going to live my life like a guest in my own house. I live here, I fart, I shit, if my dp doesn't like it he can piss off. But I guarantee that being born with the capacity to produce large gametes didn't give me some mysterious innate drive to be "ladylike", and I haven't observed any such nonsense in my daughter either. But then I'm firmly in the "gendered behaviour is socially conditioned" camp.

“It's not that I don't want to live with him, I'm just worried that things I'd rather keep to myself would be hard to keep for myself with him around all the time.”

What things?

I don't base my personal beliefs on science, I base them on my own observations and experiences, not somebody else's.

How convenient. I do base mine on actual research which is why I understand that gender and sex appropriate bevhaviour is a social construct. It's not even something that is controversial in academia. even in my own research with adults you can see how we are socailised into behaving in a certain way.

So what do you call a system that stores data, as someone who's familiar with academic publications?
A Library

OP, I honestly don't mean to sound snide, but your upbringing has really screwed up your thinking about bodily functions and what's 'lady-like'. You think the way you do because of the way you were brought up and the fact that you can't or won't challenge these thoughts in adulthood not because it's 'natural' for you to think them.
I do agree that I'm on another level when it comes to embarrassment, that's why I started this thread and asked both those that are more confident and those that are more like me what they do to cope. Because I want to see if there is something I can do to change my ways. So I don't agree I'm not prepared or willing to make some changes. I never intended for the discussion to take the turn that it has, but I don't really mind it.